Honestly kinda interested in what the new zones will be like and whether or not the WoW dev team isn’t creatively bankrupt on creating a micro-transaction treadmill for player.

  • Robert_Kennedy_Jr [xe/xem, xey/xem]@hexbear.net
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    9 days ago

    Idk if they got it in the Turtlewow lawsuit but they wanted the source code, people assumed this was on the horizon since they’ve been going after the most popular vanilla+ servers, Ascension just went down a couple weeks ago. I personally could never justify giving Blizzard another dime, just a dog shit company

    • Bloobish [comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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      9 days ago

      Yeah this entire BlizzCon feels like they’re trying to put out what should have been in the pipeline a decade ago. A expanded redesign for Warcraft III with new content, a new Starcraft Game, a redesigned WoW that embraces social interaction. I don’t think any of what they have going is actually going to work or be worthwhile and instead is them cannibalizing niche fan server content to ensure the shareholders are happy. Also it’s kinda funny and sad how much they keep trying to revive Overwatch even though they more or less sabotaged it as a proper esport and Marvel Rivals currently has the crown.

      • Robert_Kennedy_Jr [xe/xem, xey/xem]@hexbear.net
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        9 days ago

        Everything I’ve heard about their last attempts for WoW like SoD sounded awful and nothing I would want to touch. Can’t say I’ve cared about any of their other games for a long time, the WC3 remastered was at least very funny to read about.

        I just started on Octowow which is one of the Turtle clones that got spun up after it shut down but they’ve been getting DDoS’d for a couple weeks. Should hopefully get resolved soon when they upgrade their hardware.

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        9 days ago

        keep trying to revive Overwatch even though they more or less sabotaged it

        Overwatch has the highest player pops it’s ever had and is currently getting the highest twitch viewers it’s had since 2022. I don’t think they’re desperate, seems to be doing fine.

        • Bloobish [comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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          9 days ago

          Goes to show how long it’s been since I’ve played it, I’m honestly kinda wondering how the overall esports ecosystem works now with Overwatch and Marvel Rivals (I found myself trying out MR and it’s pretty fun but is def a micro shop vending machine)

          • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            8 days ago

            They massively scaled back their esports. OWL was shut down and replaced with OWCS which runs in a totally different way. OWL was always a Kotick scam sold to investors on the promises of potential to be bigger than NFL which was always going to fail to deliver.

  • GenderIsOpSec [she/her, kit/kit's]@hexbear.net
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    9 days ago

    they’re also dropping a Warcraft 3 expansion covering the forsaken. i would’ve been very into this like 20 years ago, I dont trust the current set of writers to make anything good out of them.

    • GrouchyGrouse [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      9 days ago

      It’s very telling that they need to revive these old storylines because the stories they had to formulate to accommodate the MMO direction of the franchise made for some bullshit villain-of-the-week storytelling that everyone forgets or chooses to forget.

  • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    9 days ago

    I’ve never been able to get over every female character in WoW having the shape and body of Stripperella regardless of race. FFXIV has always been deeply more appealing for variety of body female body shapes. WoW has the same issue as Marvel comics does with women.

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        9 days ago

        I don’t know. They’re fine in Overwatch imo. For some reason their WoW shit is just very stripperella. I have no other way to describe it, every single body type is this:

        They all look THE SAME

        Vs Overwatch:

        Same company, some of the same design people. But Overwatch is way better about this and it doesn’t turn me away like WoW does.

        I know they’re not both MMOs though. For MMOs I’ve generally played anime ones or FFXIV, I’m probably going to try Guild Wars 3 though.

        • dead [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          9 days ago

          While I agree with your sentiment that WoW lacks variation in feminine-presenting body types, your image shows 5 characters with only 3 races. The troll, orc, etc are more human shaped in the feminine presenting model.

          Blizzard’s low-effort solution to this problem was renaming the character models from “male” and “female” to “body 1” and “body 2” in 2022.

          Each race also has different combat bonuses, so many of the more try-hard players will choose their race based on that rather than cosmetic reasons.

          Many of the try-hard players would also choose the feminine presenting body because “smaller hit box” reasoning. Though, all characters now have the same hitbox size. I think there may have been different hitbox sizes only in early versions of Vanilla WoW.

          When I played WoW, I chose my character to be Dranei Male, which is either the largest or second largest character model, next to Tauren. Once I was in high-end content, I found that it was difficult to see when I was standing in harmful ground effects. I resorted to using consumables that shrank my character size so that I could have more visual perspective.

          • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            9 days ago

            I don’t include the monster races because they’re always going to be drastically different by default. I don’t really count Lalafell when looking at “female body types” in FFXIV for the same reason. Their gender is potato.

            I think most of this problem is probably a tech issue though where it’s to do with making sure cosmetics fit characters with little to no effort. But I hate that, it’s a cop out and these mmos need to be designed from the ground up for gear to be able to fit a wide variety of shapes automatically. Their internal tools need to automatically change the shape of the gear so they don’t have to fit it to 10 races with a variety of body sliders instead.

            I hate the hit box conversation. Just make the hitbox the same. It’s a non-issue.

            Anyway judging by concept art I’m not going to feel this way about GW3, but we will see.

            • dead [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              9 days ago

              I don’t think it’s fair to refer to horde as “monster races”. In a lot of ways, the aliance and the humans represent fascistic tendencies with considering Horde to be inferior or “monster” based on their appearance.

                • dead [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  9 days ago

                  I don’t know. I’m not accusing you of anything. The image you showed has 3 races. 2 humans, 2 blood elfs, and 1 draenei. I don’t understand how an orc or troll (or dwarf or gnome) is a monster but a blood elf would not be. I don’t know what you mean by monster. A draenei is a humanoid goat from space. To my understanding, the draenei are the only extraterrestrial species in WoW. Draenei have hooves instead of feet.

                  Again, I’m not accusing you of anything. I’m pointing out tropes in the game lore. WoW is split into two factions, that are largely at war with each other. The lore tries to frame it as “both sides are bad”. The game is not human-centric.

                  Humans in WoW would consider Orcs to be monsters and Orcs in WoW would consider humans to be monsters.

                  If by monster, you meant “NPC”. All the models in the screenshot that I posted are player races.

        • Bloobish [comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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          Yeah WoW def has an issue with body types with it’s earlier content but I’ve always liked Tauren (big minotaur people) and Pandarens (there’s also the Kul Tirans having two different body size toggles that got introduced post Cata expansion)

      • AernaLingus [any]@hexbear.net
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        While there were certainly issues with unaddressed sexual harassment at Blizzard (which you’ll see in the quote below), that particular thing is a nothingburger, and it damaged the careers of people that had no allegations against them but had the bad luck of being in that photo. The photo and name predated the Cosby allegations gaining widespread public attention by a year, but this was lost in the subsequent lawsuit and sensational coverage.

        From Chapter 28 of Play Nice by Jason Schreier:

        Extended quotation, emphasis mine

        Nothing was more illustrative of Blizzard’s cultural changes than BlizzCon, where the alcohol flowed and fans perceived employees as rock stars. Sometimes this was harmless. “It was hard to walk through there without fans hugging you and wanting to take a picture,” said designer Greg Street. Other times, it was surreal. “There’s a picture of me and Dave Grohl signing boobs together,” said artist Joeyray Hall. “If a girl puts boobs in your face and says sign them, you sign them.” And every so often, situations would get so out of control that Blizzard would have to tell employees to stop sleeping with fans.

        Michele Morrow, an actress and writer, was attending BlizzCon in 2013 when she got a glimpse of the convention’s uglier side. The night before the show, Morrow was out to dinner with Dave Kosak, a top designer on World of Warcraft, and his wife Crystal when a drunken man stumbled over. “He was super wasted, and he was hitting on me with wild abandon, saying ridiculous, embarrassing things,” Morrow recalled. This was particularly uncomfortable because the man was Kosak’s boss.

        Alex Afrasiabi, who had started as a quest designer during the early days of World of Warcraft, had always played a starring role in Blizzard’s whisper network. Even though he’d joined the company with no industry experience—Blizzard found him because he led a successful EverQuest guild—he proved to be a capable designer and rose through the ranks to become the creative director of several World of Warcraft expansions. He was handsome, charismatic, and brilliant at using the game’s tools to implement new content. He also had a reputation for drinking heavily, insulting subordinates, and engaging in questionable behavior with female employees. Now he was drunkenly proposing to Morrow and promising her career opportunities. “He told me if I married him, I’d have the keys to Blizzard, whatever the fuck that means,” she said. After some back-and-forth, Kosak stood up and guided Afrasiabi away from the table.

        The next night, Morrow and the Kosaks were preparing to head to Afrasiabi’s hotel room, at which Blizzard staff would convene during BlizzCon evenings to get away from the chaos of the Hilton bar. They called it the “Cosby suite” due to an inside joke that had started some time earlier, when the carpet in one of their hotel rooms looked like legendary comedian Bill Cosby’s sweater. On a group chat with several other World of Warcraft designers including Afrasiabi, Kosak wrote that he was “gathering the hot chixx for the Coz,” referring to his wife and Morrow, who were standing with him. When they arrived at the suite, Morrow again had to fend off unwanted sexual advances from a drunken Afrasiabi, but the night was otherwise uneventful.

        A year later, in October 2014, a stand-up routine by comedian Hannibal Burress resurfaced oldremoved accusations against Bill Cosby that led to widespread press, new allegations, and criminal proceedings. “I guess we won’t be calling it the Cosby suite anymore,” Kosak recalled joking to his wife.

        But the name resurfaced in 2021 when the California lawsuit declared that “Afrasiabi was so known to engage in harassment of females that his suite was nicknamed the Crosby suite after allegedremoved Bill Crosby.” This was not true, and the misspelling added to the overall sense of carelessness, but the allegation went viral. A subsequent article on the gaming website Kotaku shared a photo from Afrasiabi’s Facebook showing a group of eight smiling Blizzard employees on a bed, gathered around a framed picture of Bill Cosby—a photo that had seemed harmless when it was taken that evening in 2013 but was horrifying eight years later. The article, which also published a screenshot of the group texts, reported that Cosby had been accused ofremoved in the early 2000s but did not mention that the allegations only became widespread knowledge a year after the photo was taken, nor did it specify that the “hot chixx” text was referring to Kosak’s wife and friend. “It was just surreal,” said Morrow. “Everyone was being unknowingly offended for me as the subject of this text when Dave is the one who protected me and did exactly what any man should do when their boss is being a creep.”

        Kosak had left Blizzard in the fall of 2020 to become a creative director at a small company called Deviation Games. When the Kotaku article hit, several of his colleagues complained to management and said they no longer wanted to work with him, according to a person familiar with what happened. The studio hired an attorney to conduct a four-month investigation and although it turned up nothing else, Deviation fired Kosak. In an interview for this book, Kosak declined to comment on the circumstances of his departure but said he had faced professional repercussions due to the Kotaku article. “When negotiating for jobs I still hear about how I have ‘a PR problem,’” he said. “Nobody actually accused me of any wrongdoing. But my value as a person—at least in the corporate world—has gone down.”

        Paul Cazarez, who spent fourteen years at Blizzard before leaving in 2019, was also depicted in the Kotaku article posing alongside the framed photo of Bill Cosby. He said that his employer, ZeniMax Online Studios, put him on leave in the summer of 2021 after the article went live and then let him go a few weeks later without explanation. He said he had tried to explain that none of them knew about the Cosby allegations at the time but he was told that a teammate felt uncomfortable working with him. Later, when applying for new jobs, he ran into awkward situations—like recruiters canceling interviews an hour before they were scheduled, as if they had just been googling his name. “When I talk to friends and family, it’s baffling to them,” Cazarez said. “A photo has caused this much disruption in your career—in everybody’s career.”

        The “Cosby suite” became a catchall term representing everything that was wrong with Blizzard, much to the frustration of people who had been there. “I can’t speak for everyone else’s experiences, but when I was in that room, there was nothing nefarious except for Alex,” said Morrow. Yet at the same time, women at Blizzard felt like the lawsuit was correct about one important element of the story: Afrasiabi was allowed to remain in a position of power despite his misconduct.

    • buckykat [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      9 days ago

      Playing TWoW, I had people blind-whispering me while I was just out questing asking if I wanted to heal their dungeon runs. Making people use their words to form groups really makes the game drastically more social.

    • Lerios [hy/hym]@hexbear.net
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      8 days ago

      this is an opinion i see a lot that really surprises me. LFG took massive amounts of central game content from literally not possible for a lot of people to pretty easily accessible. if you’re someone who can’t speak in video games (socially anxious, ESL, 10 year old girl with good internet sense lol) LFG reaaally revolutionised the game and is the only thing that opened up instances/raids. i never would have seen massive sections of the game otherwise

      • MrWrinkles@leminal.space
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        That’s true. LFG made it casual. I was/am socially anxious and LFG was worse for me. It felt like getting teleported into a group dungeon without introductions or stupid jokes or discussion beforehand, just “Go”. And after getting kicked for various reasons, not very fun. Groups went from flexible to “Get gud”

      • insurgentrat [she/her, it/its]@hexbear.net
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        8 days ago

        I think accessibility features should not come at the cost of core gameplay. MMORPGs are fundamentally a social activity and should be designed around that. Support for people who have difficulty communicating should come in the form of e.g. subchannels that you can passively advertise yourself as available in, or prewritten barks for key information that are translated according to user’s localisation.

        A magic button that turns the other people you’re playing with into objects to support your fun is bad and antisocial. Shooting the shit, chatting in a half formed group, whinging in chat and having the server clown on you; these things are just as much a part of MMOs as killing mobs for XP are.

        It’s fine not to enjoy socialising, and if you don’t I would recommend not picking up a social activity as a hobby. I am fully supportive of things that help people connect, but believe it’s deeply misguided to turn games that are the evolution of MUDs into parallel play single player + objectified others like ARPGs/shooters etc.

  • darkmode [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    9 days ago

    i can only imagine retail’s micro transactions galore keeps the numbers high but the surge in returning subs when classic stuff gets released must’ve been significant enough to justify this. I will hold on to a sliver of hope but they cant do anything to make me 12 years old again. the magic’s gone. spamton-pain

      • TheFinalCapitalist [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        9 days ago

        The era servers dont have any mtx AFAIK, the 2019 1-60 servers are still goin and they have a small community. It wasn’t till the rerelease of TBC and the portal pass that mtx reared its head

        I hope forever has the wow token in it just cause I’m pretty good at making coins in MMOs and not having to pay the sub is pretty great

        • Robert_Kennedy_Jr [xe/xem, xey/xem]@hexbear.net
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          Oh I see, never actually touched classic, first time I really got sucked in in a lot of years was playing TurtleWoW. The amount of everything they added to the game is straight staggering and they made basically every spec viable, Disc priests do good dps, druids / paladins / shaman are viable tanks etc. They also stamped out most of the Hitlerites or at least kept them from running around broadcasting it which just doesn’t happen on most private servers.

    • Bloobish [comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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      9 days ago

      We have true classic serves as well TBC and WK (there’s also classic cata and MOP for some reason) but they’ve seen a heavy migration into hardcore servers which have their own larger pops but are just classic servers with permadeath

  • insurgentrat [she/her, it/its]@hexbear.net
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    9 days ago

    Idk how much time I have in my life for an mmo these days but I enjoyed wow originally and am vicerally digusted by the current obsession to keep trying to serve up the bottled past so never bothered with classic.

    A different development path with a less bombastic story, more social interaction, and less key jangling gameplay sounds interesting. We’ll see how it goes, a kill switch for transmogs wont last though.

    I do wish they’d fix pvp. PvE servers are a snooze fest with no sense of danger but failed people camping low contested zones are awful. Some system like after x many honourless kills in contested zones you’re hostile to both factions for a week and can’t bank or anything might work but they wont do it since failed people are their cashcow.

      • insurgentrat [she/her, it/its]@hexbear.net
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        9 days ago

        I think a bounty system wouldn’t work as:

        1. players wanting to be infamous are further rewarded for the behaviour you’re trying to discourage.
        2. players seeking more same-level pvp are now encouraged to grief.
        3. if players on the same faction can get the bounty then removed gameplay occurs where players grief and then die to a friend. Without this though normal gameplay is not hampered for the griefer.

        I am not entirely sure how to handle it, but in MMOs I have played with good PvP the price of being a pker is:

        • that most or all towns are hostile, your ability to use services is highly limited and pk hunters will know exactly where you will need to visit to make hunting you easier.
        • You drop everything when killed
        • You lose XP when killed

        In these games pkers make the world fun and dangerous, but choosing to become one is extremely high risk and high reward (they’re all full loot games). These systems wouldn’t exactly work with wow and I’m pretty sure XP loss would have people sending firebombs to blizzard (despite griefers insisting they’re oh so hardcore) but denying normal gameplay for some time, including repairs, would mean that eventually the person would have to spend a week or something afk as a 60 with no gear is a free honour farm.

  • DasRav [any, any]@hexbear.net
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    9 days ago

    Them adding more stuff to classic makes it no longer be classic. I really do not care any more. I did my 1-60 in hardcore I am good.

    • Bloobish [comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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      9 days ago

      I honestly have found hardcore to be fun, there’s supposedly going to be hardcore in the vanilla plus but I think the challenge with hardcore works since it’s known content and I feel more people would die unfairly to new vanilla plus content

    • Amarlune@lemmy.zip
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      9 days ago

      I just started playing TBC anniversary and am at lvl 28. Debating if it’s worth continuing with classic+ :|

  • dead [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    9 days ago

    I can’t play WoW anymore. Every WoW guild that I’ve ever raided with has been full of chuds who say bigoted things during raid time.