(Also for the record, I wasn’t the one who reported your comment. Like i said, I was pretty sure you were being sarcastic, just not 100% certain).

Ah comrade, I shall take you off the list then :p

All good, across cultures tone and humour doesn’t always translate well. There is also a literacy crisis in most (all?) English speaking countries which isn’t helping. Given it is now often difficult to tell whether someone’s writing is intentionally awful, or that they were subject to a shitty education.

Carnist arguments are awful. My hope is that when you string them all together, a few people who might present them as rebuttals individually pause and notice the precarious structure they form.

Lol, lmao even. Well probably better people have a hair trigger vs being lax with such a destructive ideology. A quick glance at my posting history should make it rather clear what I believe.

I would hope that if someone says “the extremely simple idea that”. Then follows with a run on sentence with 130 words and like a dozen hesitations it is obviously a satire.

I suppose carnists do write some dumb shit though when fencing with their own values.

Ok look, they say “Please stop, I want to see my children” but does that really mean what a naïve interpretation would have us think? I mean it’s not like they didn’t scream before, I don’t think this should move the needle on the extremely simple idea that:

Humans are uniquely endowed with some property that makes suffering meaningful, human emotions and thought can be influenced by the state of the brain but there is no transformation or variation of the brain that can remove the special endowment of meaningful emotional states short of utter destruction, other animals which may share similar brain structures or behaviours cannot have this meaningful suffering unless they are charismatic, even then they will always be secondary to arbitrary humans in concern because they lack special endowment, evolution has converged on extremely complex organs and patterns many times and includes many arrangements or systems which seem implausibly likely evolving dozens of times but it is utterly inconceivable that consciousness could also evolve earlier than humans or multiple times. Also bacon lol get wrecked.

Weird that people would feel embarrassed scribbling something on a scrap of paper in Biro, snapping a blurry pic, and uploading that. Yet feel comfortable uploading this which is even lower quality and effort + ethical and resource concerns.

Suggested names:

The Choker

Meat Beater

The Strangler

Hand Cannon

Deathgrip

The Pounder

Prepping a flower bed. Needed compost so we had to evict the compost rats.

Was a bit stressful, wife cried a lot at the though of hurting them. We carefully disassembled the mound, two kids were too frightened to move so we had to carefully remove them to the rock pile mum booked it into. They were old enough to fend for themselves though, just obviously a stressful sitch for them.

Anyway they were so cute, and I wish we could have adopted them rather than risk them dying due to their home being deconstructed. Unfortunately wild rats don’t do well in captivity, so I hope they manage to find a new shelter.

New compost pile is having its rat proofing upgraded, they’re resourcesful critters though so we’ll see if it’s enough.

I’ve recently been making sandwich sausage with seitan, tvp, and bessan (texture and balancing out aminos) plus herbs and spices maybe sundried Ts.

Shit is easy, affordable, and lasts all week.

Might have been this one: https://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=acwp_asie

There was another by the same group I think where they reverse the behaviour modifications by giving the fishies a shot of opiates, and then they stop hiding and rubbing their faces.

edit: I should add why I found this so morally concerning; it hints very strongly at an experience of pain, not just nociception. They don’t just run from a bad stimulus, they nurse the site and become more cautious. Something which is hard to explain except if you suppose that like us they have some persistent emotional state which affects how they judge appropriate behaviours. Additionally rubbing, which is commonly observed in humans, indicates an attempt to sooth a spot after harm.

We were ovo pesco at the time and it just made me realise that if fish, which diverged from land animals how many millions of years ago, likely shared so much in the experience of pain including nursing behaviours and becoming more cautious then either these behaviours are highly convergent and frequently occuring or they are very old. Both hinting that consciousness might be extremely similar between living beings.

In other words, Nirvana lied and fish probably do have feelings and that is a horrifying realisation considering how they’re treated. If fish, what new discovery would I wait for before pleading “how could I have known?” why not just take a proper and coherent stance against suffering and draw the line at the presence of a nervous system since it’s very doable.

Hey thanks, that’s an interesting write up.

Facts and logic never convinced anyone

I feel like I’m the only person in the world who read a paper on zebra fish behaviour modification after apitoxin envenomation and looked up from it to say “Hey, zebra fish modify their behaviour in a way that suggests they are less optimistic about finding food after their lips are envenomed. I think we need to go vegan.”

My wife, who is amazing, just agreed after I explained the paper.

I’ve honestly been quite shocked at how that paper hasn’t worked on anyone else haha.

Thanks, there was one interesting reply but the rest were uh… not the discussion I was after.

I didn’t think I’d have to be so careful to not offend on a pro animal lib instance where people regularly say lots of far more intense things that are usually understood more as gestures of frustration than attacks on particular people.

Oh for sure haha, I mean there’s a reason I am not hanging out at my city’s vegan social gathering. A fuckload of “maybe if I just buy the greenwashed product and switch off my brain everything will be fine”.

I don’t think being vegan means you have your head screwed on, and I don’t think I said that (if I did, point it out please so I can fix my phrasing). Particularly with how a half arsed capitalist veganism is promoted or the weird fashy roots of food purity it’s anyone’s bet as to how the person arrived at it.

I think veganism ought to fall out of leftism, like oppressing people for gain is bad because we are all deserve to flourish since we all feel. Being attractive or educated, or smart, or lucky, or born to some family doesn’t make your pain and joy matter more. That’s a thought that seems like it should readily lead to sympathy for other animals.

There’s stuff in here to think about, although I will note the website COC disagrees with you on the last point.

Animal Liberation is essential to any leftist movement, including platforms like Hexbear.

I guess my frustration is mostly forward looking and of the west, given that this is the society I am in. We know a lot more now about why how we treat other animals is wrong, in the same way we know more now as to why the reasons people gave for suppressing lgbt people were wrong.

A leftist movement today which enthusiastically promoted violence against queer people is something to be sceptical of I think, likewise now being against animal liberation is a bit yikes.

Nah I just want to know how other’s have faired and hear vegan perspectives. You know how you feel when you’re like out and about and everyone you’re with starts circlejerking about how awesome idk elon musk trying to rule the world is and why capitalism is great. You start wondering if it’s hopeless, or if you’re mad?

Every meal outside my household is that basically. Food and food practices are so integral to human life, and even going and doing leftist political shit a good 2/3 of people will be completely hostile to veganism so there isn’t even really the escape of comradeship to ground yourself.

One of the only places to connect with an array of different vegans with different experiences is places like this but then… well… gestures virtually.

I really don’t mean to. Like I don’t barge into the POC threads explaining why I’m actually a good and innocent white person or whatever, I would assume that other people would be at least as polite as to not answer stuff not directed at them but w/e.

Yeah I spent 3 months in there. I literally keep a means of rapid and most likely unpleasant suicide on me because I am never going in anyone’s cage again. That in itself sucks because while I’m quite sane, misdiagnosis is fun, I am occasionally severely depressed so it’s not the safest thing to carry.

Anyway ableism sucks, humans don’t deserve to be treated in ways we treat non humans who also don’t deserve it because they’re a bit, or a lot, different. I firmly believe that committing people to psych wards involuntarily should require higher levels of evidence of danger to others than putting them in prison would since they have less rights in one.

If people go voluntarily that’s one thing, but given psych wards can force ingestion of psychoactive substances it’s an extremely fucked up thing to do to someone who’s just inconvenient.

I’m from Australia. Funding is so bad nurses have to supply their own pens.

When I was committed my options were watch day time TV in a room of unfamiliar people doing strange things or try to not watch daytime TV in a room full of unfamiliar people doing strange things.

Literally prisoners have more privacy and personal space, also more books and the option for classes etc. Also prisoners aren’t forced to take sedatives that make you feel sick and make pissing difficult.

Honestly as someone who’s been committed if I was going to be committed indefinitely I would prefer it if the person doing that out of “compassion” just slit my throat while laughing.

Many psych wards are just prisons without activities were expressing frustration gets you immediately sedated and you’re forced to fuck with your mind.

Inpatient treatment acutely works for some people, but I have never known someone chronically committed who was having a good time. Schizophrenia is pretty treatable, and only a tiny minority of people with it are ever violent towards others.

Paternalistic insitutionalising against someone’s consent is pretty disgusting. I don’t really care what the label is, people who aren’t hurting others have a right to be free and people have a right to choose what treatments they want or don’t want. People also deserve to be treated as individuals and not have behaviours assumed because some old fart in a Tweed jacket slapped a label on them.

The primary defining characteristic of slop machine users is favouring convenience over accuracy. So slop machine users on twitter.

It’s not like the variety of convincing lie machine really matters, if you’re manipulating text you’ve input they all do about the same and outside of that they’re unreliable and kinda stupid.