Literally every single person that I talked to that seriously tried an EV (like, as a daily driver for some time, not just the rental you had for a day) said they were never going back to combustion engines.
Yeah, I drive an EV and will never go back to gas.
I mean maybe if I had a project car or something but even then my thoughts drift towards how I might swap an electric drivetrain…
I don’t have an EV, but I can imagine it would be nice to not have to go to the gas station once a week.
I’ve had an EV for a couple of years and had to rent a gas car on a trip recently. I was prepared for the expensive fuel, I wasn’t prepared for how shit it was to drive.
See, an EV’s electric motor and (usually) single reduction gear means you get basically the same acceleration between 5 km/h and 120 km/h. You can put your foot down slightly and forget you’re accelerating because it feels just like sitting in a stationary car on a hill. How far you push the accelerator is how much acceleration you get. Unless you’re getting wheel spin or you’re at the car’s power limit, that’s all there is to it.
A gasser has an engine with different performance depending on RPM and a gearbox that provides different performance based on which gear it’s in and changes according to it’s own logic. You’re just used to this when you drive one all the time, but for me it was awful the way I’d put my foot down and get nothing, then engine noise, then some power, then a lurch and more power and another lurch and less power. The accelerator pedal is a suggestion, mostly disconnected from what the car actually chooses to do.
Yes! About a year ago we went up a very curvy hill with the kids that has, in the past, always made everyone feel queasy, even the driver to some extent. But this year, it didn’t at all. I think it was because we were driving an EV, and without all of the hurky-jerky of the nonexistent transmission, it was way smoother.
an EV’s electric motor and (usually) single reduction gear means you get basically the same acceleration between 5 km/h and 120 km/h
Same torque, not same acceleration. Air and roll resistance have something to say too.
The car increases power as the vehicle’s speed increases, so you really do get the same acceleration force. That’s trivial to do when the drivetrain isn’t wildly flailing around.
That’s not how things work.
I feel like that whenever I’m driving my parents petrol car, when I’m used to my diesel car. It’s exactly the same car it’s just got a different engine, but it does totally different performance.
I charge mine 80% of the time off the solar panels on my roof here in Australia. Making your own fuel is quite the thing.
Another 10% is overnight on a cheap tariff
and the other 10% public charging on longer trips.
I’m on holiday, renting a combustion, and hating every second of it.
I disagree. I have had an EV since 2018 and I can honestly say I never want another one. My next vehicles going forward will be ICE 100%.
I’m also going to make sure that they are older and have little to no infotainment / internet connected systems.
A sub year 2000. Maybe a nice Accord or Jeep.
I’m over this dystopian nightmare.
It sounds like your problems aren’t with EVs. It sounds like your problems are with any modern car.
Both. But I rather fill up anytime for 2 mins than having to plan out my charging and waiting 45 mins. This is my biggest gripe.
The spyware, while a big concern, is secondary to my refueling schedule.
You’re driving a pretty old EV at this point. EV charging speeds have improved significantly. Also there are PHEVs now, why not split the difference?
I have no idea what PHEV means. Sorry.
Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle. Sometimes called “Extended Range Electric Vehicles”. TLDR: has a smallish battery you can plug in and charge that gives you something like 30 to 50 miles of range. Then a gas engine to use when the battery is low.
It’s a good option for anyone who has limited daily driving and the ability to charge overnight. Sadly they’re pretty rare. People will complain about “paying for 2 drivetrains” but cost-wise and feature-wise they make a lot of sense for people with occasional needs to drive longer distances.
If you search on cars.com it’s a filter option under “fuel type”. For my zip code there’s currently 3.9K hybrid, 2.4K electric and only 19(!) plug-in hybrid listed.
You sure have strong opinions for someone who knows almost nothing about the topic
I know more about the topic than you do.
The car In considering to get charges from 10 to 80 in 12 minutes. 10 to 90 in 17 minutes. On a fast charger, obviously (400kw+).
What were you driving, a 2013 Bolt?
EVs charge at 200kW now, not 40.
Sadly a first year model 3.
I have one of those and it happily does 250 kW at supported chargers. Takes me 20 minutes or so to go from 15% to 80%.
Double the emissions and half of the efficiency. Good choice.
Is it the drive train you have a problem with or the software? Because I think you just dislike new cars, not electric cars. In which case keep an eye out for the Slate EV
It’s the waiting 45 minutes to charge that I hate.
There are newer models that can charge to 80% in 15 min. It will probably take a while until fast chargers are widespread, but this is where things are going.
That won’t stop battery degradation.
Oh look, a shell representative
Yeah, it won’t.
ICE engines also need oil changes, transmission fluid, headgaskets,belts.
I agree that modern “it’ll spy on you” car software sucks ass. The actual battery and charging tech is way way better than 2018 though. No one has to stop for 45 minutes.
Yea and I can do my own maintenance. That’s another factor that sucks about EV. You can’t even do any work yourself.
don’t you just charge overnight most of the time?
that’s what most poeple do
Yea, would be nice if I had my own house to add a charger to. I rent and have to use communal chargers.
Ok so you bought an electric car knowing full well you were not able to charge it at will at night (and I assume nowhere in your regular daily routine, like at work) and now complain about that?
I’m from Canada and I hate I bought a giant bikini collection but bikini season is only 1 month here… therefore, bikinis suck!
Ok, searching for the perfect hairy dude in a bikini in snow picture as a humorous reply, means I now have a browser history no one can ever see …… and I didnt find one that was funny
I didn’t buy it. It was gifted to me. I didn’t know anything about EV. After having used it now for 8 years, I know I never want another EV ever again.
What do you think of the Slate truck? While I’m not interested in a truck, the simplification and lack of gadgets appeal to me enough that I may consider it anyway
Never heard of it. Up until the Tesla, I have been driving mostly Hondas since the mid 90s. If I could find a nice late 90s Accord, I would be set.
I want an EV but the prices are brutal :(
Look at lightly used and don’t buy the “battery life scary” bullshit.
Allow me to be the first.
I drive an EV now. It’s super convenient not having to fuel up once a week. It’s nice just charging at home overnight. Long distance trips are not so convenient, but doable. The money savings on gas is significant, but tire usage seems to be higher, and depreciation is higher than any vehicle I’ve owned. There’s the looming thought of having to replace the battery someday.
More than anything, I’m tired of cars feeling like spaceships, and EVs are among the most space shippy.
My next car will likely be an efficient but fun four door ICE hatchback (think European sensibility) from six or seven years ago if I can find one with low miles.
No shade on those loving EVs, I think it’s great that the majority of people are moving or would like to move away from ICE vehicles. But so long as they feel like spaceships to me and depreciate like room temperature milk, there’s room in my garage for an efficient gasoline car.
The rapid depreciation sucks, but I accept it because I want EVs to be affordable for everyone and it makes used ones affordable for people of average to low means. I’m willing to take that hit. I also don’t plan to sell mine because I love driving it and gas prices are never going to be acceptable to me again.
What is your view on hybrids?
I drive a hybrid, it’s identical to the previous car except it uses 60% less fuel. $2000-3000+ a year savings.
Americans need to pay more attention to what is going on in Iran. Trump is draining US reserves to keep prices low, and there has never been a supply crisis this bad in history. We are months away from gas line ups and flag systems, like the 70s fuel crisis, except this crisis is far worse. The shit hits the fan after the mid-terms, by design.
I like the idea of a plug in hybrid.
But there’s a lot more to a car for me. I need it to be affordable. I need replacement parts to also be affordable, and I need it to be user serviceable.
This is why my 20 year old Honda, and my wife’s 13 year old Lexus are both ideal.
Mine is a Honda, which means parts are everywhere, even in the deep deep south. It’s easy to repair basically any issue with it. I have no car note, and liability insurance is $32 a month for it.
Hers is a Lexus, which is for all intents, a Toyota. Which also means parts are ubiquitous. I swapped a water pump in it over a weekend. And I had never done that before. Sure, I’ve always done basic maintenance, but until about 3 years ago, I didn’t trust myself to do anything more in depth.
When my previous car (also a Honda) had a head gasket failure, I swapped it. Took me several months because I was learning as I went. But I did it.
Why? I had no choice. Couldn’t afford another car, and couldn’t afford the 2 to 4 hour labor rates a $20 gasket needed. What would’ve cost 500 to 600 bucks if I’d had someone else do it, wound up costing me less than $150. Had the head machined at a local machine shop, and that less than 150 bucks included that cost.
As I’ve heard my entire life, “po folks gots po ways”
The two examples of repair you used can’t happen on an EV. Of course any EV can be maintained DIY.
You need to look at the total cost of ownership. EVs often cost less than comparable ICE vehicles because of savings in fuel, maintenance, and repairs.
TCO doesn’t mean squat when you can’t afford to buy the car.
I paid 3k cash for my car.
Pay for two mobility solutions when you only need one… and, as a negative bonus, you’re still reliant on paying for oil and gas.
Hybrids are consistently among the most reliable vehicles you can buy.
They add some components, but they also take away some troublesome parts: https://www.torquenews.com/1083/its-whats-missing-matters-why-toyota-hybrids-are-so-much-more-reliable-other-brands-vehicles
you’re still reliant on paying for oil and gas
You’re reducing your consumption by roughly 20-30%. Given that this reduction comes at a low cost and retains the ubiquitous fast refueling of gas cars, it’s an excellent choice for many people.
Toyota hybrids are reliable compared to other ICE vehicles. But EVs are even more reliable. Also you still have to do ICE maintenance on hybrids like oil changes.
I agree hybrids still have their place, but i think many more people can switch to full EVs instead of going hybrid. they are just wary of change.
The entire strait of Hormuz mess only affects like 20% of the worlds oil and look at the effect it has. Imagine the opposite happening with mass adoption of hybrids (and continued growth in EVs)
Hey, that’s not fair. You also get to drag around the extra weight from having both power sources, which lowers efficiency!
Yeah I feel like hybrids are a terrible solution from an ownership perspective. You still have to get gas and do maintenance on a gas engine and all that comes with it. All so you can maybe road trip with a little less range anxiety once a year?
I feel like they’re a great solution …. For the aughts (00’s) and tens (10’s), but we should be past them. They had their time (even if few bought them then) and it’s time to phase them out for EVs. Sure, some vehicles and some locations aren’t yet suited for EVs so they should stay a little longer on the hybrids they should already be using, but most vehicles and place need to be turning to EVs
I really think emotions and politics got in the way of the better technology back then, and now as well. Now is not the time to be ramping up the technology of last decade
Not OP, but conventional hybrids are alright. Plug-In hybrids are kind of a waste, and really only see benefits in very niche situations.
Plug-in hybrids fail because of people. They could cover most or all of a typical commute on battery, but there was that recent study saying people don’t use them that way. If you’re going to treat it like an ICE car, it’s just an ICE car with more weight, that costs more.
the problem with PHEVs is the battery is very small, which is a longevity concern. Batteries lose charge capacity based on how many charging cycles they go through. So if you are discharging most of the battery on a daily commute you’re going to kill that battery’s capacity within a few years (like a cell phone).
. Plug-In hybrids are kind of a waste, and really only see benefits in very niche situations.
The situation where you commute 25 miles or less, where national average is 16 miles.
Just get an EV then. Why lug around a gas motor that you don’t need?
In contrast to an extra 250 miles worth of batteries that you don’t need?
yes, extra battery capacity does not require extra maintenance or fossil fuel like an ICE engine does.
You can get a shorter range EV if that fits your needs. Gas engine just adds weight and complexity.
That’s good, until you need to take a longer trip. At which point you can either have the extra batteries or a gas engine. There are arguments for either solution.
I liked 1 of the electric bikes I tried, and Ill admit its probably objectively better in terms of practicality, but I kinda prefer gas.
For what exactly
seeing as it’s about bikes, probably the noise
I hope to never buy another. We have an ICE minivan as a second car and it compliments our compact EV well. But 10/10 I prefer driving and maintaining the EV. I always knew EVs were quick, but I didn’t expect how quiet they would be. I can actually hear my music.
Which compact EV do you have?
Yeah I will never go back.
I still have my ICE car for my kids, and have been tempted to upgrade them …… but there’s no point spending money to replace a perfectly functional car only 9 years old, and most importantly just sits while they are away at school
don’t wait, upgrade the kids already.
We need to separate the feeling of driving from practicality. EVs are pleasant to drive for sure. Having to plan your trips around charging is annoying, there isn’t really much progress there.
The only reason I want a car is to do spontaneous trips to less populated areas. I already have range anxiety, I top up as soon as I’m below 1/3 of the tank. Batteries make it worse.Sorry, but can’t relate. Had that feeling for the first few trips until the first one where we drove so much more efficiently that we deliberately did not take the first planned stop. I rode shotgun, so I then looked for alternative spots to charge, just to see that there are so many in my country that having planned those routes in the first place literally doesn’t make sense.
Since then we just drive. Once we get below 50 km remaining range, we check some map app for the next charger. Like we did with gas stations.
Also, coming from practicality… it’s just so nice not to have to use gas stations. Like, you usually just always start whatever you do with a full battery because you just charge it overnight. No gas stops on my commute is quite practical.
It’s ok if u can’t relate, different people and places have different needs. Where I live there are areas where if you don’t fill your tank, you won’t make it to the next fuel stop. And no, the trees don’t have charging cables hanging off them. If you can do it that’s awesome, but they don’t work for people in rural cold climates quite yet! I’d love to have an “EV” hybrid thing with a smaller battery and a diesel on board generator, zero range anxiety and bonus points if the generator is an old mechanical diesel that can run veggie oil or used oil from my other shit boxes or various biofuels. Sure it won’t be as clean as a true EV but I bet it would be more efficient than a gas car.
I drive an EV, and planning around driving habits is simply not a thing for me. It’s hooked up to its 230v charger and will be ready at 100% charge every morning. I drive the 50km to work and back for about 25% worth of charge. There’s a few public chargers on the way to work and almost anywhere I care to go. Range anxiety is waaay overblown in my opinion.
If you can charge at home yeah it’s fine, otherwise you’re fucked. I had an ID3 and could only charge at work or at an expensive charger at a gas station.
I had to plan charging at work otherwise I couldn’t decide on a whim to go see my mum on Sundays. The itinerary took around 60% of the battery in summer and only one charging station in between, which is not working half the time. So either I take 30-60 minutes before going to charge (hoping the charger is working and available), or I can throw the dice and hope the chargers on the way works this time.
It’s not so much range anxiety than the infrastructure around me not being enough.
Edit: and by charge at work, I mean go to the nearest charger near the office and remember to get the car back once full to avoid overtime fees. Work took 3 years to install chargers on the office parking.
Haha, yeah very different situations ……
I had to pick my kid up from college and the itinerary takes about 60% of my battery round trip
- I try to remember to click the charge limit on my app from 80% to 100% the night before. Charging at home is wonderful, and this gives me cushion to take detours
- I try to charge at work since it’s free but there’s always a queue so I can’t always
- if my battery runs low (it did once, when I spent the weekend there playing tourist), there’s superchargers in that town and a few miles down both possible highways, plus multiple places on those highways.
- I’ve never seen a non-working Tesla supercharger, and I’ve never had to look for any other brand since they are so convenient and everywhere
yeah i would not recommend EVs to anyone who can’t charge at home. we are just not there yet with infrastructure.
Range anxiety is waaay overblown
in my opinionfor how you use your vehicle.People use there vehicles in a lot of different ways. That’s why there’s a bunch of different size, body style, and powertrain options available for vehicles.
Range anxiety is waaay overblown in my opinion.
By media funded by gas and oil
Yeah but it’s also easy to understand. Even knowing it’s overblown, I had some amount of range anxiety until I took a long road trip and found out how easy it was. It’s also a familiarity thing: people won’t lose the anxiety until they experience the reality
Having to plan your trips around charging is annoying, there isn’t really much progress there.
Do people do this? Sure I was anxious when I first got my EV, but the reality is very different. I try to remember to click the charge limit on my app from the usual 80% to 100% the night before but that’s all the planning I ever do.
Do other cars not have this integrated into trip planning? When I use the GPS to set a route, it just automatically adds waypoints for charging when necessary. I never need to think about it. Maybe I haven’t gone rural enough yet, I don’t know
And trip planning has never called for more than 20 minutes at a supercharger, trying to keep me on the steep part of the charging curve.
Where’s the beef?
you always leave with a full charge as you can charge at home overnight, so that helps
If you’re rich enough to have a house where you can charge at home, sure. If you’re in an apartment you’re probably out of luck there.
Oh no, I have to stop for 15 minutes after four hours of driving, every time I drive more than four hours at a time.
I have anxiety right now just thinking about the next time I have to spend that 15 minutes in a couple months from now.
Do you think I can save up all the times I don’t stop for gas between now and then and use that as some sort of credit towards that time?
You wish it was 15 min
Surprisingly it is. The trip planner on my car tries to keep you on the steep part of the charging curve and has never planned more than 20 minutes.
It’s actually kind of annoying since you want to do something while waiting but it’s not long enough
- one long stop I walked a couple times around Walmart but didn’t have time to shop
- another long stop the time was up before we found the food court so I had to stay longer
- I witnessed true southern hospitality where i tried to walk a couple blocks while waiting at a longer stop, but some business opened their gate to let me cut through
It’s actually kind of annoying since you want to do something while waiting but it’s not long enough
You know you’re the boss of the car and not the other way around right? :p
Yeah, often it’s shorter. Sometimes you don’t need another 70% battery to finish your trip.
Make it illegal to include touch screens, tracking, no buttons and no handles. Then I’ll consider getting a loan for one 🤷♂️
They say this whilst trying their best to make EVs the printers of the car industry. Update? The car stops and bricks itself for the duration of it. Want basic features? You have to pay a monthly subscription for the car you already payed for. Need it repaired? Have to bring it to a dealership with criminal prices because every part is serialized and they have you by the balls. Need a new battery after it kicks the bucket in 4-5 years? Expect to pay $10-20k for a new one. Oh and of course the center terminal/tablet is now crucial for the cars function, so anytime that malfunction it bricks itself again. Oh and it will always track and spy on you with GPS and onboard cameras and microphones.
I don’t have any of that with my EV, certainly no subscription stuff, nor overcharging for service, because a service is significantly easier
Not to any degree different from in ICE vehicle
You’re just spouting shit
Sorry, but what about that is specific to EVs? Nothing you mention is specific to EVs, but applies to all new cars. Except for your unwarranted fearmongering about the battery. Basically every car manufacturer offers a 8 year warranty on the battery, so you can assume that they last longer than that.
I agree but realistically the only electric car you’re getting without any of that is a Lunar Rover.
They are trying their best to hold on to their customers. I read somewhere that ICE vehicles need lots of parts routinely changed (oil, filters, seals, belts, rollers, spark plugs, exhaust pipes, etc.), and that’s where the money is.
Also cars are getting lots of electronics regardless of propulsion type. EU needs them to include SOS system, lane assist, road sign recognition…
People aren’t going to realize EV’s are better until the can actually afford one.
Also, maybe one day America will get their heads out of their ass and realize that public transportation is better EV’s.
its the greedy domestic overpriced ev companies that are lobbying to block foreign ev competition.
You can get an EV for about 5k nowadays.
Agree on the public transportation, tho.
In America??
Only inbreds hate EVs.
Normal people simply hate tesla.
The only problem I’ve had with the EVs we’ve been leasing for 5 years now, is unsolicited criticism from EV haters. They seem to ignore the fact that I’ve been driving various diesel and petrol vehicles for decades. If my own lived experience of EVs was less rewarding than my previous ICE ownership I’d switch back. It’s not like a football team that I’m wedded to. They’re just generally better cars in terms of driving, torque, maintenance, cost to run and basically every metric that matters to me as a driver. Quite why that annoys people who in many cases have never even been behind the wheel of one is beyond me.
The problem is that modern cars are shitty. It doesn’t matter if it’s a petrol, diesel or electric car. If I can’t repair it myself, it’s a poor quality car. The fact that you might need specialized paywalled software to remove error codes after fixing the car is just awful.
Most people I’ve spoken with that claim that they don’t like electric cars eventually agree that they don’t like modern cars. Mainly due to how closed everything is.
Yeah, vendo lock in is what has stopped me from purchasing a BYD seal
Repairing doesn’t even really apply to evs. It’s not like you bust out a wrench to fix your tv.
It does. Brakes, suspension. Lights wipers window motors etc, all that shit breaks.
And when I need a fucking dealer computer to “unlock” it to fix my brakes or a broken window motor, fuck that shit.
If a TV cost $60k, I’d bust out a wrench to fix it. It’s usually a blown capacitor that costs pennies to fix.
EVs still have a ton of shit that will invariably break and need repairing/replacement at some point. A huge amount stuff I’ve had to fix on my cars had nothing to do with the engine/transmission and are universal on road vehicles: Brakes, rust, wipers, plastic in direct sunlight, digital displays, head lights, dozens of belts and motors that run on tracks, mechanical doors, AC.
Most of which can be repaired with a stop at parts store and a couple of common tools IF the manufacturer hasn’t locked it behind some bullshit security bolt or a lockout chip.
Doesn’t the door opening mechanisms on Tesla’s famously break all of the time?
Make it affordable and I’ll buy one tomorrow.
Let’s talk VW specific. I would absolutely love an ID.Buzz. But you made the fucking thing SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.
Did VW ever implement one pedal drive? Total non starter for me a few years ago (got a volvo instead).
There’s B mode that will aggressively regenerate, but nowhere close to one pedal. Although I’ve found myself using the adaptive cruise control for no pedal drive
One pedal driving is coming this fall in MY2027. I’ve never had it, so driving in B mode feels good enough to me.
They still have a break pedal, if that is what you mean.
Heh, my understanding is that they are affordable, assuming you’re buying Chinese cars and your country hasn’t levied absurd tariffs on that one country in particular.
They were 80k near me. Insane. However, the Buzz is kind of an outlier - a non-luxury EV at luxury price.
ID Buzzes have been selling for $15-20K under MSRP this year. My wife and I never expected to get one after they announced their pricing, but then $15K off a fully optioned one won us over. We grew tired of waiting on Honda to update their Odyssey. We’d been hauling 3 kids in our Accord Hybrid for 3.5 years and would have loved to drive an Odyssey hybrid. I did not want to buy a van with a V6 gas guzzler sporting less tech than my 9 year old Accord.
The car is also unnecessarily big, it feels like
Edit: I misunderstood
The Buzz is a van, it’s meant to be big so you can put stuff in it. It’s actually too small for my liking as it’s too low to fit my dirt bike in without a struggle and too short for a 1200x2400 sheet of ply/metal/whatever (my Transporter fits both of these nicely though).
Oh I thought it’s e.g. ID.3 ID.4, mistook “buzz” for “*”
I wanted a Ferrari, but they made the fucking thing 6 HUNDRED AND 40 THOUSAND DOLLARS.
I’m not paying $640k for that thing for other reasons. What the hell was Ferrari thinking? Are they trying to make the ugliest Ferrari ever so they can say “see, nobody wants and EV”?
Hey man you posted a picture of a Nissan leaf by mistake. Maybe check the post…
Yeah shame. Take out all the tech bullshit I dont want and I bet that number gets cut nearly in half. Abs, efi, maybe airbags if you want.
We can make simple vehicles. They just refuse to. Becuase simple won’t break and be unrepairable by the end user. Gotta jeep those stealerships in business with proprietary tools.
In short, with late stage capitalism you will never have a good car again.
I’m certain airbags are a legal requirement.
Unfortunately, software defined vehicle is cheaper to build, then you get all the fancy stuff “for free”. One of the many problems legacy manufacturers have is the extra miles of wiring they need to install, mostly manual labor
That’s what I think. EVs aren’t functionally equivalent to ICE cars yet - most of them can’t go as far between fillups, and they take longer to fill up. Those are steadily improving. But the cost benefits are there. Back in 2013 when I bought my Leaf I went from spending $1800/year on gas to $300/year on electricity, and in 12 years my only maintenance costs were windshield wiper blades and a set of tires - which I would have needed with a gas car. But no oil changes, tuneups, no filters, belts or hoses, no spark plugs. No radiator problems, starter problems, pump replacements. I mean it’s almost like not having a car at all, except you have a car.
I think the problems tend to be overplayed. For most people the BEV is as good as the ICE vehicle. They have a range in excess of 300km with most above 400km, further for city driving. Charging is at night so it is only those longer trips where charging is more inconvenient. I’ve modified my hasty lifestyle a bit to actually enjoy a coffee while charging on those few trips to the big smoke.
Default assumptions of home ownership
Sadly you do need somewhere to plug it in.
I tried to get my job to setup outlets. I just wanted a 120V regular plug. Anything helps when your car is just sitting there. They said no. I told a Doc who had just bought an EV they won’t even tap in to the existing light wiring to add 120V. 3 months later 12 spots with level 2 charging. Since i work 12hr shifts, I try to space my days so I can charge up for free and won’t need a charge for a day or 2 depending on how much I drive.
I also carry an extension cord and park near an outlet on those rare occasions I eat out. No one cares. Maybe management, but its " I’m sorry.i didn’t know I couldn’t do that." Act embarrassed pay for my meal and quickly leave. It’s like siphoning gas out of company vehicles. Fuck em.
My only gripe with EVs is repairability, and the inevitable enshittification of their software, and all the issue that spun from it, like ads and what not. Heck we can’t even have a decent “open source” friendly phone, let alone EV. This will become a major issue unless well regulated and I hope the EU steps up. I wish we can have a mechanical, open-source EV.
The difference is (as long as its not self-driving) EVs are stupidly simple devices. They have less technology than smart phones. It would be great to have regulation to force standardization and open-source firmware, but genuinely we already have plenty of software and controllers capable of fully handling any EV, VESC being the most popular example of this.
And yes that controller both handles electric aircraft and RC cars. Because EVs don’t really differ from the model scale to the extremely large scale.
Don’t worry, they enshittify software in cars that have an ICE under the hood too.
Well you can buy an older ICE without that whereas that option doesn’t really exist with EVs.
That sounds like a success story. Wait til you hear about your battery died one week after the warranty expired … Fun times
Is your usual source for things pulling them out of your arse?
He saved more money than the battery replacement will cost.
By the time a battery pack will die (outside of warranty), you will have paid for on an ICE car (according to manufacturer recommendations and warranty):
35 oil changes
At least 2x drive belt
At least 2x transmission fluid replacement
At least 2x full vehicle brakepad/rotor sets
At least 7 fuel filters
At least 1 fuel pump
At least 1 alternator
At least 2x timing belt
At least 2x water pumps
Assuming you have the capability to do all that yourself, and the tools, that’s still more than the difference in cost for purchase price of the ev vs ice vehicle.
Add in the fact electricity will always be cheaper than the same amount of fuel, and you easily save more than enough for the next battery pack that’ll last another 8 years or 175k miles.
I’ll say $2700 on the oil changes. Two accessory drive belts are like $30. $160 for a couple drain and fills, with pan gasket and filter, for my transmission. $240 for front pads and rotors, twice. For posterity I’ll add $300 for complete rebuild of the rear brakes (drums, shoes, springs, tensioners, cable, bell cranks, cylinders). I’m at almost 190k miles with no fuel issues so I question that fuel filter figure, but $105 for 7 filters. $110 for the pump I’ve yet to need. Could be cheaper but I go with Denso since they make most of the OE stuff. $125 for the alternator (also yet to need). $400 for two AISIN timing belt/water pump kits, because they should be done at the same interval. Napkin math, erring toward our current gas prices rather than the cheaper past, $33,250 on that 190k miles. I bought used for $10,000, so I’m not even on the hook for all 190k, but we’ll say I’m all in for $47,420, still running strong and owner serviceable. All maintenance being done myself. Substantially increase the figure if you’re paying a shop.
A used 2022 Leaf with 17k is gonna run me $15,000 (just lazily searching for “inexpensive reliable EVs” and seeing what pops up in my area). I’ll have four years or 83k of warranty left on the battery. Middle of the road - $1,500 to have a charger installed at home. I’m estimating $7,000 in electricity based on driving habits and local rates (and assuming those rates won’t increase). Add the low-ball figure of $7,500 for an out of warranty battery replacement, which I’m seeing will probably be needed (or at least wanted, due to degradation) by around 150k. $31,000 “all in.”
$47,420 vs $31,000 for the same 190k miles.
The Leaf will also need pads/rotors and it has some of its own fluids that require changing. Mine needs plugs and coils, the occasional sensor, etc. Both need brake fluid flushes but no sense factoring that in for one and not the other. The difference isn’t small, $16.4k is nothing to scoff at, but I’m also comparing operating and servicing my 22 year old Tundra against a 4 year old electric car. I bet the gap closes even more if I had something like an old Corolla with better mpg going toe to toe. Hell, that’d probably cut my gas expenditure nearly in half, nevermind potentially cheaper parts for a car vs a truck.
Not sure what my point is but that list compelled me to actually math it out. I’m keen for corrections or other insights. Maybe a Leaf was a poor choice, but I’m poor too and not buying new so I glanced at “affordable” used listings nearby and it’s what I found. Even if I could buy new, given current offerings I can’t say I’d want to, neither EV nor ICE. Micro transactions, rolling data mines, the erosion of ownership… Until things get better (wishful thinking), fuck the whole lot. I’m mid life and inching towards my cranky old man arc; the next generation can own nothing and be happy if they don’t start resisting it.
Not sure I follow your intent of the post. Please allow Me to give some background. The battery has a good chance of dying early, even after the warranty period. Which makes the average cost of the car very expensive
The battery does not have a good chance of dying early, lol. Where do you get these stats?
Nah,
You’re making shit up
Again
Remember when VW had hundreds of slaves in Brazil until like a year after I was born? That was pretty wild.
For those of you who are not as intimately familiar with potoooooooo’s birthdate as I am: they had slaves until 1986
For those who want to know the bare minimum https://www.reuters.com/business/world-at-work/volkswagens-brazil-unit-ordered-pay-30-million-decades-old-slave-labor-case-2025-08-29/
If they can’t remember my birthday, they don’t deserve my fun facts.
In reality, I just meant to convey “modern times.” Hip, youthful times. But I should’ve just said 1986.
Ehh, I feel like a lot of people in here are arguing just for the sake of it, and because the guy who said this is from a car company.
Yes, of course electric cars are better than cars burning fossil fuels. EVs being too expensive, too few buttons and too many touch screens has nothing to do with that. The same goes for the also obvious fact, that we should focus more on public transport because it is much more efficient in moving people around than cars.
I’m only interested when the vehicles are simple and affordable and the charging stations are fast and ubiquitous.
Which will be 20 years.
People seem to forget gas cars took 50+ years to become widely adopted. They were not really accessible to the middle and lower classes until after WW2.
For some reason people here just want to scream and moan and browbeat anyone who doesn’t want to buy an EV today, when they are unaffordable, inconvenient, and make zero sense unless all you do is commute to work and run local errands. Lots of vehicles are used for different purposes.
I wouldn’t call any car affordable these days so that’s a moot point. The rest of your description of EVs is not accurate at all. I drive an EV long distances across rural Montana regularly. If it works for me I can guarantee it would work wherever you are.
I’m not you. There are no ev charging stations in rural areas where I go. it’s just woods.
My EV has over 300 mile range: most people aren’t going that far into the woods
Unless you live in Siberia or parts of Africa then I am 100% confident that rural Montana is more sparsely populated with both people and EV infrastructure than wherever you are. I can make it work. If you can’t you either haven’t tried and are therefore only speculating or you don’t want to. Either way, that’s a you problem
You can already drive cross country in almost any EV. There are more charging stations in my area than there are gas station.
Mechanically, EVs are very simple. Cost and “complexity” (app, touchscreens, etc) are rampant in ICE cars today as well, so buying one of those won’t really make a difference there either.
Yea I’m all for simplicity. But honestly a modern EV is probably LESS complex than a modern ice. They all have the same complexities with stupid computers for every component (body control modules, “infotainment” crap, hell vw likes to have a module in each door and each seat to controll door locks windows etc) but Ice also had complications of an engine. I love gas engines I’m a gear head, but let me be the first to tell u that there’s a LOT less going on in an electric drivetrain than a gasser. Sure the control modules for evs are computers in of themselves, but a modern auto drivetrain has a computer for the engine and a sperate computer for / in the transmission, plus they both have computers for abs/tc and interior crap and cameras etc. My hurdle to adopting electric is their so goddamned expensive that they can’t outweigh oil, gas, and service costs yet. (If you disagree about that, that’s another conversation. I drive sub 3k$ cars when I have to but mainly ride motorcycles and do my own work so no there isn’t a way to get around cheaper in an EV than an ice for me yet)
My hurdle to adopting electric is their so goddamned expensive that they can’t outweigh oil, gas, and service costs yet.
Yeah, that is the real issue with EVs, and probably the only complaint I’ve seen in all these comments that is valid.
It shocks people when I tell them this, but I did NOT buy an EV to save money. In most situations, buying a new (to you) car will cost you more than fixing the old car many times over. So I’m not shocked that I’m paying more for the EV. I’m more shocked that with the insane cost of gas lately, my EV is getting close to breaking even on monthly driving cost compared to my partner’s civic.
I think it’s funny that the complaint people bring up in these kinds of threads; that EVs aren’t that “green”, that they are unreliable, that charging is inconvenient, or that they aren’t practical… is completely wrong, and people who have EVs love them because they are exactly the opposite of that.
is completely wrong
is it?
Tesla sells the least reliable vehicles you can buy right now.
and
They also have the highest crash rate.
And
The newer models have the battery pack glued into the frame, cannot be replaced, just junked. All models have a cast aluminum frame that is brittle in crashes and cannot be repaired, leading to more write-offs, more junk.
Wow… Sounds like one brand of cars known for having QC problems has QC problems.
Tesla making unreliable cars doesn’t mean that EV is an inherently unreliable technology.
People complain about hybrids because they add more parts and complexity, which people assume makes them less reliable. Yet Toyota hybrids are consistently rated as among the most reliable vehicles you can buy.
My point is that the brands and their QC standards are really important.
Will the other reason that I can’t get and EV is because I have no way of charging it at home so I’d be 100% reliant on public charges and they cost a fortune because they overcharge for the electricity.
I did the math for my EV. Even the expensive fast charging station near me came out to be only about 25% of the cost my old ICE car would get for gas on a per mile basis. The slower level 2 chargers typically cost substantially less than that, but are really only worth it if you were going to park in a lot that had them anyway.
Same. I don’t care about the range or anything. I want an EV to spend less money (that’s what they say) but:
- I can’t afford one right now, ICE vehicles are way cheaper out of the box
- there are no chargers where I live
The simple bit is already done, EVs require way less upkeep. The affordable bit is done as well, those ones are just banned to “protect domestic auto markets” (depending on where in the world you live).
The fast ubiquitous charging is still very location dependent. In CA I have no issue finding chargers on roadtrips. I imagine TX is not the same. If you happen to have access to a charger at home or work then 99% of your problems are solved.
Seriously, I’m not even in California and charging is a solved issue
- charge at home is half the price of gas and the car is always ready to go
- free charging at work is icing on the cake
- trip charger in every direction.
Limited by my road trips, I can tell you that everywhere between Virginia and Boston has convenient trip chargers …… and I never bothered looking at anything other than tesla
Even only the north east and California had trip chargers, that’s a population close to 100M. And most decent sized cities everywhere have trip chargers - we’re covered for at least half the population, and probably much much more
They are, in every area except infrastructure, range, and (in the US) affordable variety.
We now have 2 cars that use electricity to a varying degree (hybrid/phev) and it’s awesome. The fuel savings is immediate and obvious.
Thats absolutley true, but I live in an apartment complex that wont even fix the elevators, there’s no way in hell I’d ever be able to charge at home and for that reason… I can never have an EV.
You know, that 20000-30000 premium over ICEs does buy a lot of gas over lifetime. And I’d rather not rent computers on wheels which depend on random clouds.
