- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
Suck it micro USB, mini USB, and lightning! 🪫🔋
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USA checking in.
Just bought a new USB-C charging beard trimmer on clearance.
Feels good, man.
Thamks if EU helped.
Now for those swappable batteries
Including cars.
Drive in, swap non-proprietary batteries with an autoloader, drive out. Done.
Yes and no. No need to hot swap massive EV batteries. Rapid is fast enough. But yes so the EV can be upgraded. The batteries go obsolete quicker than they degrade. So make it so we can swap the batteries and keep the rest running. In fact, just right-to-repair the whole car. In fact, the whole everything!
That is something that I wish would come true. This would also open EVs to the industry in some new ways. Currently it kinda sucks if you have machines that have to be able to run the whole day without big interruptions. When you’re able to just swap the batteries in like 5 Minutes this machines don’t have to rely on fossil fuels that much and are open to be replaced by electric ones.
What I’m thinking about are machines like tractors for farming. During the summer it happens that they are running for 8+ hours without interruptions. Building a battery this big will be quite challengening. However, if you’re able to swap out the batteries after like 2 hours and then continue with work you effectively solved one of the biggest problems with not that much of a hassle.
And range just dropped by half. Going somewhere without a loader? Have fun charging way more often.
Would still be nice for road trips in the civilized world though.
They have gas stations in the middle of nowhere as long as there’s enough people with cars. Not saying swappable battery facilities aren’t more difficult than gas station infrastructure, but range matters a whole lot less when you can swap a battery in under five minutes.
I’ve never needed more than 25 minutes at a supercharger and that time is improving every year. We’ll probably be on par long before we could standardize swappables and get that infrastructure build out everywhere
It is great until the ownership and business model comes into consideration.
Works fine for reusable bottles here.
One of the benefits of EVs is we can get rid of a lot of infrastructure. Everywhere already has electrical so home and destination chargers are a minor add on and it’s only superchargers that are new infrastructure. Meanwhile the entire gasoline and oil refining, distribution, and tens of thousands of gas stations can just go away, along with their associated pollution.
Swappable batteries may sound cool but they’re less edficient plus now we have to build up a huge new set of infrastructure agai, we have to standardize batteries, and we can’t build them into structural parts. The only real advantage is speed but that’s not much advantage if you need to drive somewhere. I’ve never had to charge more than 25 minutes at a supercharger, so swapping a battery is only convenient if it’s at most ten minutes more away. Then you’re also assuming there will be more more battery and charger advances, such as those solid state batteries that a couple vendors claim are already in production, such as 800v charging that a few vehicles already can do, such as the latest Superchsrgers that can charge faster than any car can accept so far, or the semi chargers that have a few built out.
Long before you could build out a huge new infrastructure for seappable batteries and standardize cars around it, we’ll already have charging improvements that will make seappables irrelevant. You could argue they already are irrelevant in some areas
While 25 mins doesn’t sound terrible you have to consider throughput. Long lines, waiting for chargers could become an issue if adoption takes off, and if I ever drove by a set of chargers that was full up and more people waiting that’d probably put me off from buying one.
Maybe but so far:
- I usually charge overnight at home
- I’ve never waited in line at a supercharger.
The destination chargers at work do get a line but we coordinate over slack so you never have to actually wait.
The trick is to get those home chargers deployed everywhere. This is what actually decided me on the futilebess of swappable batteries. Almost everyone could use a level 1 charger, but even a full level 2 charger is the same as a stove circuit or an air condioner. It’s just not a big deal for most people’s electrical service and level 1 can be anywhere. Look at how difficult it’s been to get these deployed despite them being so much cheaper and simpler than what you’re proposing. How will we possibly spend tens to hundreds of billions and decades to build out swappable battery infrastructure if a few billion in charging circuits to mostly existing service is so difficult?
Who benefits from seappable battery infrastructure? Really it’s mostly the same companies that profit from gasoline infrastructure. I’m convinced many proponents are just these companies wanting to continue business as usual. However with plugins, they don’t need to exist
You make some good points, but may I say from a single viewpoint.
I can’t physically charge a car at home.
I work from home and travel to customers - most are hours away and I (usually) can’t charge at their office.
Hence, I don’t have an electric car and my next purchase will probably be a self-charging hybrid because I need to recharge / refuel on the journey - hence quickly.
So, in my case, the only way I can go full-electric is with a short charge (/ battery swap) at the places that currently sell fossil fuel, which are becoming battery charging stations (they already have AC mains, so no new infrastructure required).
I can’t physically charge a car at home. … and I (usually) can’t charge at their office.
Certainly this is key. Your car is sitting unused for hours at these locations, so even a relatively slow charge would be convenient. We definitely have work to do deploying these everywhere.
My point is more that every workplace, almost every home already has sufficient electrical service to charge for most car uses. We have the technology and it’s naturally broken down into many smaller less expensive projects. It’s much easier to build this out than to create an entirely new infrastructure around disposable batteries, redefine all cars and then scale out. And the technology already exists. But we still have to do it
Can we bring back the charging as well, and not just the USB cable… Oh, and while you’re at it, screws instead of glue, to replace batteries would be awesome.
Thx!
There’s a rule coming into effect in 2027 that enforces user replaceable batteries for devices in the EU. https://www.pcmag.com/news/eu-smartphones-must-have-user-replaceable-batteries-by-2027
while 2027 is better than nothing, I still wonder why it took them so long. Glue in smartphones has been around for probably a decade now.
Also, I think, anything that has a battery, should be user replacable… even teeny-tiny earbuds.
To allow the manufacturers to adapt and phase out?
For USB sure… it’s kinda “newish”. But, I mean, they could’ve intervened much sooner, when glue became the standard for assembling phones.
There’s always an implementation period with these things, also with the USB thing, to allow companies to build and sell phones that are already in the pipeline. Expect, just as with the USB thing, replaceable batteries to become a common sight quite soon and ubiquitous by 2027. You can already get quite decent smartphones with replaceable batteries but it’s the usual suspects Fairphone, Gigaset, and (at least one model of) Samsung, those would also exist without the regulation. The “oh shit they actually passed it we’ll need to re-engineer things” models from everyone else still aren’t on the market.
And before anyone brings it up: Yes, you can make them waterproof.
Waterproof
Strongly agree!
Looking back, I suspect this was only an argument to make them hard to repair, as always, just worded in a sense like it’d benefit the customer.
FFS, just add some rubber… We’ve used rubber in condoms for centuries (kinda) succesfully, what made them think glue’d be better… I ain’t gonna put glue on my ding-dong, if that’s what they’re after all these years.
I suspect this was only an argument to make them hard to repair, as always
They don’t mind the benefit, for sure. But as somebody who worked in manufacturing support jobs up until a couple years ago, I’m 90% confident it’s just faster and cheaper to glue them. Probably easier to automate too. Again it just comes down to money.
Just thinking of the scale of R&D for something like a flagship phone, there are a LOT of person-hours dedicated to manufacturability.
Noice. I am definitely waiting until 2028ish before upgrading my phone, if not a bit longer.
Just get a Fairphone, with every module screwed into place. Except the battery, you can just take that out by hand.
That’s true, but if the EU could force every phone maker to make the battery replaceable by the customer this would be a huuuuuuge step in the right direction and reduce electronic waste.
no keep the glue please. I love that my phone’s back just came off on its own just because it was hot outside and the glue melted away. it was fun and exciting!
With the iPhone 14 no longer being sold the specs of the rumored SE 2025 make a lot more sense.
My only concern with this law, is that what happens when USBC is no longer the best option. Idk how to express what I’m saying but what if USB-G ends up being 1000x as fast. Does this law allow for chargers to evolve and if so, how? I admit I haven’t looked into this but I’ve been wondering about it.
I’m 99% wireless these days so I wouldn’t be surprised if chorded chargers are largely on their way out, but I’m still curious.
Manufacturers are allowed to add supplementary charging standards on top of USB-C PD, and the commission is required to review the landscape every 5 years to see if a new technology is better than USB-C that should be adopted in the future
USB-C doesn’t have speeds, it’s just a connector type. USB 1, 2, 3-3.2, 4 etc. is the protocol responsible for speed. You can have a USB-C connector with any implementation (except maybe USB 1). It can even do DisplayPort stuff.
So for USB-C to become irrelevant we need to come up with a better connector form factor. Which is unlikely to happen soon. But also, same thing happened with USB-B Micro connector (colloquially called micro USB), it was designated as a standard (but Apple managed to get an exemption) and manufacturers had no issues moving to a better connector, which is USB-C.What I don’t understand is what was wrong with mini-USB.
Too thick? Just why do people want a portable computer to be thinner that their wallet, or their notebook, or their damned pen, or that Snickers bar in their pocket which nobody made thinner. Who the hell told them that “miniaturization being the future of tech” has anything to do with the box inside which that tech is mounted being just a bit thinner? I mean, were it thin enough to put computers into printed magazine pages, maybe (I think I’ve read that someone did this, with a computer kinda as powerful as ZX Spectrum). Why do they specifically need it? Not to appear “modern”, but really?
The question is, because for me personally mini-USB was very convenient. It held well, was easy enough to stick the right way (and not ruin it trying to stick it the wrong way).
Now, I guess USB-C is fine if it can do the same and go both ways. I actually like it, except RPi 4 is the only device I have needing it.
It’s just … how can one try so many connector types for one group of standards?..
Mini-USB sucked, big time. Not so bad as micro, but yea it was bad.
The main advantage of C over all previous versions is that it’s reversible, you can’t plug it in wrong. The shape is also… “flat”?, so it’s easier to fit into the socket, mini had that wavy like thing going on.
My data source is my small kid: he’s broken 3 (and counting…) usb-
minimicro connectors by tugging the charging PS4 controllers, and he has to ask me to connect the cable to charge them, he’s unable to do it himself yet. With his tablet, 0 usb-c connectors broken and he can plug it in himself.I think you guys are taking about micro USB. PS4 controllers have micro, PS3 controllers had mini USB.
They were both equally terrible the only improvement micro had over mini was it was slightly smaller.
You should verify this, but I think there is like a consortium of sorts made up of tech companies that pick a standard that they all must follow. So in the future, it’s possible for them to pick a new standard, and then after a transition period everything would be required to switch (though of course you could still continue using old devices, they just can no longer be sold new).
What happens if the better technology is invented by a company not part of that chosen tech club? They get to block it’s adoption?
If it’s really that much better, it’ll be used for other things and catch on, then they’ll be a part of the group.
How can it be used for other things, if this law makes that illegal?
The new law allows you to have more than one charging connector provided that either the USB-C one is the best one, or the USB-C one is as good as the spec allows. If the new connector’s genuinely better, then it’ll beat a maxed-out USB-C connector, so devices will provide it in addition to a maxed-out USB-C connector.
uh huh and when the company is sued into oblivion proving their tech is better then what? the problem with laws like this (and I generally support it) is that they give bad actors ways to club others to stifle competition.
The plug will be the same, bet money. There are already several sorts of USB-C. And think on this, the USB-A has had the same shape for going on 30-years.
This, USB-C is just the connector shape. USB-A is the standard square plug everyone knows, USB-B has several different ends, some more well known than others. The full sized “printer/hub” one, mini-B and micro-B which more people know. USB-A to A cables aren’t common, more akin to an Ethernet crossover cable, so you’re almost always going to see one of the B connectors.
USB-C is just the newest plug design, the actual cable and communication protocols have changed numerous times over the decades. USB-C might have been introduced alongside USB 3.0 and the massive increase in charging and data speeds with the new standard, but they are not exclusive.
The most obvious example is probably the iPhone 15 and 16, both had a USB-C plug, but the devices only supported USB 2.0 protocols.
USB-A to A cables aren’t common
I believe USB A-to-A cables actually violate the USB spec and should not in fact ever exist. They definitely should not exist as a straight-through cable (although obviously they still do in reality) without any active electronics in the middle. Male A plugs are solely for connecting to a host device, and the entire purpose of the spectrum of B plugs in their various guises is specifically to make the other end of the cable that goes into the endpoint device different. The point is that you are not supposed to be able to directly connect two hosts together like that.
A straight through dumb A-to-A cable would connect the +5v pin from the host device directly to the +5v pin on the device on the other end of the cable. If you did this between two host devices (i.e. two computers) it is certainly possible that Bad Things would happen if the designers of both devices did not account for this type of stupidity. The only way one of these can be valid according to the spec is to omit the power pins entirely.
That said, I have a particular flashlight that came with exactly one of these naughty cables: A straight through male USB A-to-A cable with no smarts in it whatsoever. The flashlight charges via a USB-A port which is exceptionally bizarre, and I suspect the reason it does so is because it can also act as a power bank and the manufacturer was too cheap to include a type C or micro B or whatever port for input and a separate type A port for output. But now I’m stuck having to use the moronic cable it came with (which is also only like 14" long) without much hope of ever finding an alternative or replacement…
Speaking of illegal weird cables: I actually have a Y shaped cable, USB Type-A male to USB Type-A female with an extra red USB Type-A male to inject more power if the host can’t power the device otherwise.
I’ve used it once to attach an external HDD to an Android Phone with an OTG male micro-B to female A adapter. It worked but it was kind of stupid :-D
Those used to be common for stuff like external drives (HDD, DVD…)that needed more power than old USB ports could provide, so they used two
The benefit is that by being standardized, there will be less proprietary cords and adapters. And the capability of USB-C should be adequate for sometime with the power and data transfer.
One issue, is that not all USBC cords are of the same quality. I found this recently when trying to find a cord that can be used for an external SSD, and video for a monitor. Some cords worked, the rest did not. All the cords could be used for charging, but after that, all bets are off.
I bought a really nice, high quality, very fast charging and data transfer cable, and there’s one device I own that it will not charge at all. My assumption is that it probably doesn’t have a charging control chip or something else required to work with that cable. It doesn’t work with any other USB-C to C cables I own either. It has to be charged with the USB-A to C cables included in the box
While this is good news, the likes of Apple will still find ways to be “compliant” while still being total assholes about it. e.g. the device might charge with USB C but they’ll gimp the data transfer rates on non-pro phones. And they’ll do the same when mandates about repairability come in - all of a sudden the battery will have a bunch of expensive DRM’d up the ass circuitry attached to it that will cripple the phone if its not recognized or registered by one of their techs and means Apple can kill old phones by being “out of stock” of the battery.
e.g. the device might charge with USB C but they’ll gimp the data transfer rates on non-pro phones.
Just so you know, there are others who have slow speed on USB Type-C already. My mother’s Galaxy A52 has a USB Type-C port that has only USB 2.0 support for data transfer, but with USB PD 3.0 PPS charging up to 25 W.
To me it’s legitimate to use USB Type-C for better power delivery even if the chipset runs only at USB 2.0 speeds for data transfer. But hobbling a fast chipset just for product segmentation would be shitty. It is something I could see Apple doing though.
Honestly, people who still buy apple phones are dumb fucks. No way to say this nicely.
There’s a weird discrepancy where Mac Laptops are decent machines despite being on the expensive side, but iphones are just overpriced hot garbage locking you into an ecosystem.
Apple is absolutely overpriced dogshit. There is no legtimitation for the prices they charge. However, Apple has two advantages(as far from what I heard from a lot of others). Its brain dead easy and works. Every Idiot is capable of using apple and won’t have that much problems with it. Apple is the right thing for the digital toddlers that want to have it easy. The Ecosystem is great as long as you don’t want to break out of it.
I personally would never buy Apple since I like a certain form of complexity and don’t want a completely locked down system. However, if you only care about something where you don’t have to think and that just works, Apple is The right thing for you.
I’m not an apple fan, but this is just a dumb take. they have their place, even if it’s not under your ownership.
iphones have a place about as useful as diamonds - as a status symbol alone. They are used to create out-groups and discriminate against poor people.
The original iphone may have been useful - the update hype with ever more expensive BS is just milking stupid people for cash.
This is absolutely true,however the EU has proven to be not someone you mess with. Apple has already tried shenanigans to stop side loading and got beaten by the EU to comply with the rules.
Kudos to the EU, end the waste.
They should specified speeds too. I think Apple gimps usb c charging speeds
Yup I have noticed this with my new iPhone 16 pro.
You plug it in and the charging speed as drastically slower than when I use the new ‘official’ apple wireless mag lock (or whatever it’s called) charger.
More speed is more heat is more battery wear.
Ok so make it an option
Nobody opts out and now Apple is bad because batteries age faster (even though it’s the same on other phones).
Not the best idea.
I know Samsung and pixel both have this option, and I would be surprised if other major manufacturers didn’t. While people have their grievances with them, I’ve never heard anyone complain about overall battery lifetime.
If that is an actual concern people have then they can just turn it off by default
People complain extra about anything Apple does.
I don’t care what people have to say about apple
More speed is more heat is more battery wear
Why is making it an option with the default set to off worse than what they have now (slow charging with no option)?
Only suck it lightning. It still allows standard chargers like micro USB and mini USB
Are you sure? The EU parliament explicitly mentions USB C as the new mandatory standard.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A32022L2380
USB C is mentioned in annex Ia and as an example in articles 11 and 12. As I understand previous articles, it is possible to use other standards that satisfy citeria from article 9.
Open standard W
All this… and they decided that everything needs to use a USB type b? Lol 😂 /s
USB-C
Literally in the article brief and in the second paragraph: “Electronics manufactures must from Saturday fit all devices sold in the EU with USB-C charger ports…”
