There’s also the “I have suffered it and therefore everyone else must suffer it as well”

exactly. empathy is the ability to realize other people have different experiences than you. to think about what it’s actaully like to be homeless.

but people think it means ‘just agree with me and make me feel good, and if i feel bad for people i am a good person’

The fact that there could be someone out there thinking, “I have 17 homes, so clearly they are imagining not having a home”, does not shock me

edit: grammar and my brains is a mix of spaghetti and mashed potatoes

This is funny when it comes to minority groups in a larger one.

I remember telling someone passionate about his org that I’ve seen some homophobia/queerphobia and shit in the org, and he was like “Homophobia here??? We don’t tolerate that, it can’t be happening. I haven’t seen it”

Well, it’s not like they are calling you a f****t or some shit, you aint queer

being perennially excluded from parents group, kids activities, volunteering, coaching and other social connective activities because you’re a male parent and might accidentally sexually assault someone

losing multiple male friends to suicide, and seeing society handwave it away as being less important than any other form of death, despite its incidence being 10 times that of homicide

being objectified as inherently dangerous, simply for having a penis, and worse still understanding why

starting each day trying to be good, and do good, and that still never, ever being enough

Why participate?

It’s super ironic that you are the top comment in THIS thread.

Hi again, you assumed that I thought deep fakes worked off magicly making nudes and just didn’t understand the technology of aggregation as opposed to listening to the ways that women are being blackmailed and harassed by it. And that even if deepfake is exponentially faster and more accessible, it’s nothing new or different than drawing a picture of someone naked, even in the age of social media

Instead of actually listening you were arrogant, dismissive and hostile. You are the man in this comic. You are the person who is not harmed by deep fakes, so it’s not a real problem.

You ask that … on the internet…?

is that even a stat you can gather on lemmy? I have no idea frankly.

Because some of us just don’t like pizzacake

I never go searching out pizza cake, but when i see it I will always downvote it.

Am I out of the loop?

Why don’t people like Pizzacake?

Some people don’t know how to click downvote and move on with their day,

The classic “Someone is WRONG on the internet!” phenomenon.

My hypothesis is it’s two major parts:

1. Protect one’s ego at all costs. Anything that makes you feel bad, at all, is to be rejected.
2. Join in-groups that do not value or respect women.

For most people, belief is more social than we’d like to admit. So if your in-groups are a bunch of jerks who think women “talk too much” or whatever, you’ll probably adopt that. It’ll be continually reinforced from your socializing. Then with point #1, any time contrary evidence that does manage to break through you’ll reject it rather than doing any hard work or introspection.

Selfishness, ignorance, lack of empathy, inability to see more than one perspective, misogyny, the “Well, I’m alright, Jack.” mentality, and the ability to ignore all the evidence in order to maintain my own personal view are just some of the tactics I’m employing right now to openly disbelieve what you tell me is your own personal lived experience. Glad I could mansplain explain that for you. s/

I suppose some men are just so used to their own toxicity that they just look down on anyone who “can’t take it”. Women suffer even more because they are more easily targeted and “will never be as tough”

my theory is that it’s just sort of universal across the internet. You have a wrong think in a group, and that group will delete you forever.

I think there’s a more specific version of this that ends up targeting women directly though.

We see it all the time with internet justice, someone posts rage bait, fake or real, people doxx them, people harm them, whatever. Shit like this just kind of happens. I think.

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The way my mother “taught” me doesn’t exactly leave me with a good impression of what women are about or why I should treat them any different from men.

We don’t talk anymore, and I will never have kids.

r/TalesFromYourServer: Kicking a Nazi out as soon as they walk in

I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”

And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed

Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”

And i was like, ohok and he continues.

"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.

And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.

And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”

And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.

The biggest mistake new moderators make is allowing bad actors to use the rules against them. You can’t be too prescriptive, you can’t give them ammo to go “well this doesn’t technically violate any rule.” And when they complain you have a “don’t disrupt the community” rule and say it’s “too vague” just tag them as potentially a problem and see what they do. In my experience, they inevitably deserve a ban.

i don’t know how much i follow this tbh.

I think that’s probably the case for some people in some communities. More broadly? i doubt it though, i think.

Like i’ve followed linux communities semi regularly, and every so often you’ll get mentions of queer posting in the comments, and you’ll get queerphobic shit in response, which given that the linux community is mostly older people, who are nerds, that generally tracks with what you expect, but there are also always people who just aren’t pieces of shit also, so idk how much of it is demographic concat, or something else entirely.

If it was pebbleyeet you’d have a point

At least it isn’t another heathcliff

Do y’all have any justification besides hating something popular?

“Please understand that a subset of your group is a serious threat to our safety”

briefcase unclasping noise

“Sure but step one is to define what the term safe really means in this context…”

Kinda hard to have an equal discussion when being a woman entails being sexually harassed and occasionally assaulted by a bunch of men, mostly ones you barely know or don’t know at all, on a regular basis before you even hit puberty. Your “sex war” is more like a sex genocide with the effects biting the whole male demographic in the ass, even the ones who didn’t cause it.

It’s also hard when most of the men that participate in this discussion (despite often not wanting to admit it at first) subconsciously think that women should listen to their venting 5 seconds after meeting them and be in a relationship with them and hug them and bang them and stuff. Seriously, interacting with guys just feels like gambling, with most of them forming some sort of unhealthy obsession with you and taking your kindness as a sign of weakness or inability to see their red flags; to a lot of guys, interaction with them is basically a green light to move on you. It sometimes feels like life is a “don’t unintentionally upset or engage with a random man too much or else he might find your phone number on the dark web and send you texts threatening to rape, torture, and murder you”. We live in a society where it’s relatively common for high school girls to have a guy classmate they occasionally talk to tell/text them that they wanna rape her, just unfiltered and out there because she decided to have a conversation.

Their problems are caused by patriarchy too, but that doesn’t mean I’m willing to subject myself to sexism from them. They, whether they realize it or not, feel like they deserve what they want from a woman, the unfairness of women not wanting them makes them frustrated and they see gender equality as a means to an end, they see it as a way to have women finally love them.

It’s not so much of “women and men are equally fucking up and need to make up” as it is “women are extremely scared by men, and negotiating with the likely emotionally unstable potentially violent people with nothing to lose who probably thought about you and them dating immediately after seeing you never seems like the good option”. It’s like encouraging kids to interact with people who they think are violent and might shoot up a school in order to convince them not to shoot up the school… Even talking to someone out of pity is endangering yourself.

Most guys want to get in your pants or eventually get to that point, whether you’re apathetic to them or nice to them or mean to them. How am I supposed to talk to guys about sexism when usually their main concern is the lack of action with women and my main concern is interacting with men is inherently extremely risky and I fear I’m about to get raped or murdered when a man raises his voice at me?

It has to be at least 95% of straight men who are the danger women have to do conversational twister with to be relatively safe and comfortable around, and the remaining portion of men usually take an “insult” about the majority of men as an “insult” to them.

Men and women are both negatively affected by our sexist system but the playing field is not level. The solution is getting a majority of men to realize exactly what women deal with from men, and getting them to actively work against their subconscious sexism to promote a safer environment for women and remove the high risk of interacting with men, including by halting the rampant objectification of women and their bodies, so women and men can actually be humans with each other for real. The widespread outrage things like the bear meme gets show that this probably isn’t going to work out any time soon. Men usually immediately think of it as a challenge to “prove” that women are worse by saying a lot of them are bitchy and hard to read and gold diggers or something, rather than a way to understand why women can’t feel safe around men the same way they can around women. But instead men think of it as how women feel about any single man, including them.

At least there are communities like !mensliberation@lemmy.ca that are on the right path though. Sigh.

No because I personally am perfect and an exception.

Lol, you must be one of the guys that get offended by this or the bear meme. If you think stuff like this attacks all men or you directly, or that women have done wrong to men even 1% of what sexism and men violence has done to them you just need to close lemmy for an hour and read a bit. And im a man in case you were wondering, i just dont have my head inside my own ass.

Edit: just to make it clear to everyone reading this guy post where he talked about both sides and all that shit https://lemm.ee/comment/11953665 ended up just saying that for them womens problems are imaginary because they have a full belly and a roof. The story is always the same it doesnt take much to show when someone is such a level of sexist even when they are trying to hide it behind bullshit rethorics.

I just want it to stop, it could have been productive but there’s just too much vitriol now

On y va to the bookshop for a new thesaurus.

i’ve been saying this the entire time, and weirdly, people seem to like it, or at the very least, stop commenting to my responses because they simply don’t want to engage because productive dialogue bad? Or something, idk it’s the internet don’t ask me, i’m not real.

Removed by mod

amen.

but that would require taking sex out of the equation. sex is what drives all of this misery on both sides. it’s much easier to empathize with people you don’t want to fuck, rather than seeing them as a in terms of sexual social dynamics, where those who are sexual desirable on both sides are given leeway in behaviour that is intolerable for those who are not sexual desirable.

The “colorblind” approach doesn’t really work. it only serves to maintain social hierarchies by ignoring that there’s a problem in the first place.

By basically not having the laws which are there to promote solving the problem, it effectively ignores that there’s a problem at all. Being officially legally the same doesn’t mean society treats you the same, and at that point you’re trusting the population to just dissolve the hierarchies themselves with the law disallowing the methods which are actually effective at doing that which… doesn’t work.

Plus there’s a ton of ways to discriminate in law without mentioning gender, and having plausible deniability about it. That’s what a ton of the Jim Crow era in the US was about. That’s what much existing legislation does with women actually.

Which laws? Most institutions in pretty much every society are still largely controlled by men. If you remove laws that are meant to create more equity or to protect women from discrimination, this trend will grow stronger, as people tend to hire and prefer the company of others like themselves. Men will vote for other men and male dominated fields will continue to hire men due to explicit or subconscious bias. There are always exceptions to this, but you can see that sort of self-selection occurring even in things that are low stakes, like hobby groups.

I am baffled by how humanity has managed to survive this long when so many men suck so fucking much. Then, when I think of it further, large portions of it was probably due to the women having no fucking choice, exemplifying one of many important ways in which men suck.

so true men dont have feelings there is no reason to care about what they think or how they feel or how things affect them. Empathy is wasted on men, not that u had any of that anyways.