it does say that theres only 20 in the label, but im more pissed about the waste. everything couldve been put on 3 trays
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The only time I’ve seen something like this is when my doctor really wanted me to try an anti-depressant, so he gave me a perpetual supply of free samples.
Don’t antidepressants take weeks to start working?
A doctor said this and it was such a good metaphor: imagine that you have a 3000 year old machine (which no one understands anymore) with a bunch of cogs and gears, and you’re looking down at it from above. You’re trying to fix a gear that is slightly out of alignment further down in the machine, you can’t really tell which one it is but you know roughly which area, and to fix it you drop a rock into the machine and watch it fall down.
That’s what we’re doing with SSRIs. We’re dropping a rock that manipulates our serotonin, which gives a bunch of effects but not the one we’re after. The one we’re after is somewhere down the line. It’s affected by processes that are affected by the serotonin somehow. We’re not exactly sure which one it is, but we know that if we drop the rock in there it will make the gears align sooner or later.
Which is why it takes time, and why it has some odd effects on people sometimes.
edit: added a detail I missed, to make it clearer.
That’s a good metaphor! I’m not sure about the rock though, throwing a rock into a complicated machine doesn’t seem like the best idea. I’d consider replacing it with oil, where it needs to cover the gears at the top first before it can drip down.
Yes! That’s the point of the metaphor! The SSRI is the rock. We’re not exactly sure how it’s gonna land, or what it’s total effects are on the machine, but it’s the tool we have and it’s the one we’re using. I don’t remember where I heard it, but I instantly understood why I became so paranoid all those years ago when I tried antidepressants.
edit: and that doesn’t mean that a person shouldn’t try using them. They can be incredibly effective. But they are what they are. Not a quick fix, and (to most people) not a long term solution.
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SSRIs are the most effective means we have in terms of medication. That doesn’t mean that they’re the solution. They’re a short term stop gap. The changing of routines and everything that goes on in appointments with psychologists is supposed to be the oil. Many times however that oil isn’t used.
Other than that we can only hope that we figure out some better tool for the job.
it’s the best thing we’ve got. and honestly, it ain’t that bad
personally the first week it fucked me up but after that, life changing effects. truly life changing.
Some doctor told my dad a while ago that he felt like we weren’t that far off from physically poking around in a mind and hoping that we fixed it- or that we’re closer to that than understanding it.
It’s an old and second hand story. I do appreciate the idea though that we’ve found ways to disrupt the mind that can be beneficial, but that we’re not at the level of being able to do more than throw a cog in the works in a general direction.
For me it makes it easier to accept when the first - or second thing does work. We’re just trying things. It’s not like we know what is gonna unclog the works.
This is getting pretty deep into a metaphor. Sorry
puts conspiracy hat on
but having a proper solution would make selling meds for a long time harder!
weed has many medicinal effects, and yet it’s illegal in most places
LSD has many medicinal effects, and yet it’s not even allowed to be studied in most places! There’s so many stories out there saying how psychedelics outright cured someone’s depression or anxiety, but no proper in depth studies on them.
I think it’s because nobody is really looking for a cure, well, I bet a lot of doctors want to but sadly they depend on funding & legality of their research. The only way for them to do any studies is to get money from the money men & a permission from the goverment (also ruled by the money men), and since they’re trying to look into claims like “one dose of this cheap to make drug cured me of depression!” then the best business decision is to say “fuck off”
while what you say totally stands in capitalism, lsd and weed are probably quite bad ideas.
i think.
Oil doesn’t fix alignment of gears. Ideally, you need to precisely go in and realign the exact gear. But we don’t have that power. So we’re throwing rocks.
“the rock may or may not cause the inability to cum and sleep”
Friendly reminder that sexual side effects of SSRIs are incredibly common, some medications effect more than one in four, but it is something that’s typically wildly underreported unless the practitioner brings it up, specifically, first. Not just “any side effects”.
There are multiple treatment options for people who encounter those side effects. They can range from poor libido/drive, to inability to obtain an erection or adequate vaginal moisture, to delayed or absent orgasm. All are common and all are frustrating. All can occur alone or with one or more partners.
If it’s impacting treatment or quality of life or your ability to stay compliant with meds, it’s absolutely worth discussing with your provider. There are other medications or alternative schedules to taking SSRIs. There are other meds that can be prescribed alongside SSRIs to accommodate for the side effects.
Relevant article from Journal of Clinical Medicine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6832699/
There’s other antidepressants that don’t do that. Mirtazapine for instance helps sleep, and has no real impact on sex. It’ll make you hungry, though. Buproprion will mess with your sleep but not sex, but you’ll have no appetite. They all have their own unique collection of side effects, well worth looking into other options if SSRI’s aren’t well tolerated
Thanks. I’m just making jokes. Fortunately most of my side effects went away, although I still have wild dreams.
I totally understand that this is a necessary process for anti depressants but damn it sounds scary as fuck. “Eat these brain chemicals and come back and see us in a couple weeks”
“How does it work?”
“Fuck if I know it’s kind of like throwing a rock at an old machine. Just make sure you let me know if you experience any of the long extensive list of potential side effects!” Like damn im for sure not a doctor but that sounds like russian roulette with brain pellets to me. If Ecstasy (which was invented by a pharmacutical company to be medication) can permanantly fuck up your brain I would bet money that these pills certainly do the same. I bite my tongue anytime someone mentions they are considering it or talking to a doctor about it, their choice. But man it scares the fuck out of me. Ill just continue to sleep all the time and stay angry lol
Sure, but that’s a lot medicine. We know it works, just not why. We know why many things work and how, but far from all of them.
They’re really not that scary, as long as you take your prescription as instructed and have regular contact with a physician.
This is a great metaphor for why psychiatry is pseudoscience
SSRIs definitely work for some people. It’s just that everyone’s brain chemistry is extremely different and complex. Doesn’t make it less scientific. Making the best guess is math and science.
I would say it even works for many people. We’re aware of the fact that it works, and we’re aware of the fact that it effects serotonin. We also know that serotonin isn’t what does the work. There’s something down the line that is affected by the processes of the body that just happens to react in the chain from the serotonin manipulation.
But all the other things that are affected in that chain can also do weird stuff to you if you’re unlucky. That’s why it’s important to have good communication with your physician during the process.
This is one thing where so many people I talk to got unlucky. For me, SSRIs were super lucky in that they helped alleviate depression caused by my anxiety which then helped me find other roots of the anxiety. Turns out undiagnosed ADHD is terrible for your anxiety - got diagnosed though!
Side effects for me have included stomach issues and weight not coming off even as my physical condition improves as I’ve started running again. I’ll take it for now until I start weaning off in the future. I wouldn’t say they were a lifesaver but they helped immensely.
I always recommend trying it if the doctor recommends it (and if you want it) even though I was unlucky and turned paranoid three pills in. I stopped taking them and it was over in a couple of days. So many people get helped by them and never say a word. People you and I wouldn’t ever assume were on them.
SSRIs were super lucky in that they helped alleviate depression caused by my anxiety which then helped me find other roots of the anxiety
You hit the nail on the head.
SSRIs are terrific at clearing some of the noise and making you more receptive to other therapy (namely talk therapy) and striking at the root of what’s causing the issue. I wouldn’t have even thought about talking to a therapist a year ago and it’s been revolutionary understanding my behaviors (especially those that I learned in childhood) and how I’m inadvertently passing them down to my kids.
Consequentially I’ve also been more aware of my wife’s behaviors and how she’s passing them down to the kids and she’s not quite as receptive to the criticism as I’ve been.
It really is eye opening to have a good long conversation about what’s troubling you with someone who understands the intricacies of how the mind works and how it pieces things together.
Yes and no, also i am not a medical professional.
For classical antidepressants Chemicals tend to function pretty fast but the effect is designed to be subtle because you need to live a normal life, capable of dealing with and feeling both ups and downs. not be perpetually smiling or brain dead.
After some time “a few weeks” of taking a daily dose your body and mind adjust to the subtle changes causing a stable therapeutic effect. At least thats what I understand is the idea.
But lately there is also sm of a psychedelic renaissance of medicine and they work entirely different where a single dose within a therapeutic setting creates a longer lasting feeling of increased well being.
Nasal Ketamine seems to receive allot of attention, near instantly improving the condition. They tend to need 1 dose every 5 weeks so its less addictive then classic medicine. But i do admit it instant improvement for treatment resistant medications is a bold claim and still subject of more research.
The side effects can last for weeks. It’s like a really shitty onboarding process. For some, the side effects are not bad. Personally I can say that the first 2 to 4 weeks are usually filled with nausea, extreme fatigue and exhaustion.
The way that these sorts of meds have been described to me is that “they give you a leg up”, meaning it gives you just enough of a “boost” that you might actually follow through on therapy and the strategies it offers.
It has been years now, and still no luck. I’d love to live a normal life, whatever the fuck that means lol
It depends on what you mean by “start working.” The first time I took a sertraline, I felt absolutely baked, but I feel like it took weeks for the desirable effects to take hold.
Then again, my doctor also told me that something like 60% of the effects are a placebo.
Regardless, yes, he would give me like a month of these individal samples at a time. I’m not sure how he swung that. It was like 2003 or 2004.
Why not put them all in one little baggy? That’s how I buy my pills from Rick.
They could even be packaged more efficiently as a powder.
I buy antibiotics from this guy downtown, who has cut out so much waste by providing it in powder form. I now I’m not supposed to, but I take it everyday with a nasal inhaler. I’ve never felt better and have great ideas of grandeur for hours each morning!
Package it like whey protein. In a giant 2 gallon tub with a scoop.
There are many reasons these may be pacakaged this way: from lowering the possibility of accidentally taking the wrong pill to anti-theft.
It would be cheaper for the manufacturer to just put them all in a bottle, so rest assured they wouldn’t do this if the benefits didn’t outweigh the costs.
There’s been a shift away from putting pills in bottles.
IIRC it was pioneered by the NHS (UK), because they found that the mild inconvenience and time of popping out the pills one by one, in comparison to the ease and speed of downing a whole bottle of them, cut down on people attempting suicide by overdose by a surprising amount.
That’s… Actually pretty genius. When I’m depressed I don’t have the mental energy to do that.
That’s how governments work. Not a single penny spent on making life more worth living, but methods of making suicide somewhat less convenient hits industrial scale production.
This is such a cynical take. NHS finds a simple change to save lives and you spun it bash on the idea of government.
Adding that certain markets won’t accept bottles, you must use a blister.
Why is it one per card, bit of a head scratcher, but given the logistics and distribution costs of shipping this format, agree they wouldn’t do this for fun.
Because one pill is probably the recommended dosage for that medication.
I’m willing to believe there’s a reason to have them separated but why would they use such a large packaging for it?
blistering machines used in the pharmaceutical industry usually work with some standard sizes, hence the size of the blister. change parts also cost a small fortune, so it makes no sense to have them tailored for just one product if it works well enough with existing equipment. thay being said, a couple of things below in reply to the whole thread, not just yourself.
to add to the list of reasons one would want them individually packaged, it’s easier to dispense a set amount of pills in this manner, for medicine that needs to be tailored for each user more often (think if you need 5 capsules, you’d get a blister that is weirdly cut by the pharmacist with a pair of scissors - cutting the blister also removes important information like lot number and expiry date). also, it could have some stability issues outside of the blister, so dispensing them naked in bottles might not be the best thing.
for antibiotics and such, it’s also crucial to take each and every dose prescribed so dropping one in the sink accidentally when you’re shaking a bottle is something you’re trying to prevent. the size of the blister would also make it harder to lose around the house or one’s backpack/bag/purse/saddlebags/bag of holding and then not taking your last dose (in addition to the change parts thing mentioned at the start).
individually wrapped bananas are a waste. for critical things like pharmaceuticals, there is more likely than not a good reason for this. look up pharmacovigilance if curious to know more.
Here’s the comment I was looking for! I was going to suggest this might be the issue. (total guess), but it made sense when I saw its the standard size of other blister packs you get.
I also heard that the reason heinz tins dont stack well whilst other brands do is because of how expensive it would be to replace the machines (or parts of the machines) that make the can lids and bases.
So it was a fair assumption that it’s basically the same problem here.
Especially when you consider that it’s probably very few people that need just 1 of a certain pill. Thisnis likely a supply issue with this medication in the multi blister packs, so they gave 20 singles.
Make it harder to steal is the most common reason.
first of all why would anyone steal pills? secondly, how is this making it harder?
first of all why would anyone steal pills?
Remember, people in the US often have to pay a shitload for medication.
But even outside of the US, there’s still the issue of people wanting to steal prescription medicine if you can get high on it/sell it to people who want to get high from it.
i think that might be a suicide prevention measure, i remember something about blister packaging helping reduce suicide rates.
You will also often see such packaging used with in hospitals, group homes, and nursing homes. It helps to limit med errors for nurses and cnas and can allow some mentally handicapped people or elderly to have some control over their lives.
It’s not a common packaging you are going to get from a pharmacy unless specified for you by a doctor.
Just looked this up, had no idea but it makes sense
😂 Bro its sad how so many doctors dont really consider most humans adults lol
Adults are the ones usually killing themselves by overdosing. Suicide is final, and survivors of botched attempts praise that they failed to kill themselves. It’s why men have a higher suicide rate, because their method is usually final. Having a packaging that hinders the process of suicide via overdosing is helpful to all involved.
i talked some shit above but that sounds more right, do you have any sources?
CDC reports 90% of suicide survivors don’t attempt a second suicide.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/suicide/surviving-a-suicide-attempt
Why more men die than women in suicide attempts.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190313-why-more-men-kill-themselves-than-women
Elaborate
that still works if you put 20 in the same blister package
I got a big pack of milka cookies, it was huge…triple the size of their regular…turns out it only came with 2 extra cookies.
It had a huge plastic tray, remind me again why i’m being told to use a paper straw once every 2 years i actually get a straw when manufacturers keep pulling shit like that.
Have you made any effort to change the laws about straws beyond complaining about it on social media?
Ah, right. How could I forget. Systemic issues are solely the fault of us as individuals for not singlehandedly solving them ourselves
What you’re doing isn’t productive.
Surely just as productive.
Why would i change laws for the straws when they are replaced for a good cause.
The point i attempted to make is that that single straw is like half a gram of plastic saved when the manufacturer makes possibly millions of these packages that waste 30x the plastic that is saved on my straw.
We just need a good and effective way to make the manufacturer of these products change their ways. Adding costs/fines/taxes for plastic usage isn’t helping because they just pass those on to us and sneak in a little extra profit.
Medicinal clamshell package. I ain’t even upset about all the excess packaging. I’m pissed at the fact you need a circular saw to open your medicine just to take the daily dose.
😂
JUST PUT IT IN A PILL BOTTLE.
Bottles are bad. There’s a reason that the industry is, often due to public welfare regulations, moving away from them.
Could you explain why?
because people really do end up chugging the pills, among other reasons.
i am totally for reducing waste, but we have bigger fish to fry first
you can still chug the pills it just takes a few more minutes
thanks for that
yea it’s sadly a proven principle that any extra difficulty helps lower suicide rates
what are these pills that OD is a worry?
Fewer people create less waste.
Blister packs are purposely annoying to open to prevent abuse
i don’t know any addict that would be deterred for even a minute by that
And yet suicides measurably decreased when the switch to blister packs was made.
And yet when I put an entire box of blister pack antihistamines in my bag, I pull it out later on to find 75% of blisters broken.
What are those?
Gas station dick pills
Funny blue bois
I prefer white doves
Ugh yeast infections suck don’t they.
i wasnt trying to hide it but how did you know haha, are the colours standardized?
… What were you doing with that baguette?
We’ve all been there.
serioufuckingsly?
This reminds me of when I got an RX for Quvivq. It came in a box… Which had three boxes inside of that… Each inner box had a slide-out blister pack with 10 pills in it 🤦♂️
Malicious compliance at its best.
Could’ve put all of them in one bottle instead of foil trays…
Exactly why this style of packaging exists is to stop people from downing an entire bottle.
Genuinely confused how lemmy dorks keep being surprised by very basic safety measures like this.
Blister packaging also allows for multiple safeguards against fake/forged medication.
Plenty of people in here tryna make a big-plastic conspiracy just had me lolin
