cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/12934485
The comments are even more reprehensible! This is the flood gate the Mamdani supporters opened after calling all of Mamdani’s anti-zionist critics antisemitic.
Source: https://bsky.app/profile/doopcommander.bsky.social/post/3mwu5rx726s2z
“It’s a little gratifying to hear that people like this are living miserable, empty lives” is extremely disgusting to say to a person whose life has been immeasurably altered for the worse by genocide. Like yeah, his life is worse, no duh! Zionism and Jewish supremacy is the cause of that!
The one aspect of Zionist historical arguments that makes the least sense is this depiction of the Levantine as just becoming empty/near empty at some point post-Roman Empire and then Arabs just “moved in.” That the spread of Islam in the rest of the Middle East largely happened via conversion but suddenly when it comes to that particular strip of land that couldn’t possibly be the case. It’d be comedic in how outlandish it is if it wasn’t being used to support ethnic cleansing and genocide.
We’d probably have a better understanding of the region’s history if archaeology there wasn’t controlled by Israel, which they use to support their own view of history, and literally undermine Palestinian homes.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
I am Persian-Jewish who was raised haredi.
First off I will never use the term Mizrahi which means “Eastern” and is an Israeli colonizer label. Second, it is a simple fact that most Jewish institutions support Israel and the eradication of Palestine. This is not anti-semitism, this is just a simple statement of fact. I have been completely disowned by my family for my non genocidal views. I grew up hearing things like “We should just wipe out all the Palestinians” as throw away comments whenever talking about Israel by my Israeli and American parts of my family since the 90s.
Frankly, I would rather not identify as Jewish anymore than be associated with what it has become. I’ve thought about this a lot in my life and the longer this goes, the more videos come out, the updated google maps, the less I can stand it. Judaism is a religion that formerly celebrated life but since the Holocaust has become a death cult, they worship on the tragedy of their parents/grandparents/great-grandparents and worship on the wonton destruction that they are brining.
The worst part is when these fuckers in the post blame the “Mizrahi” for this and their right wing support. The European and American settler colonials pushed policy for decades to make Jewish life impossible anywhere outside of Israel and the US. They forced the politics that led to “Mizrahi” communities to become dispossessed, they supported the radicalization of the “Mizrahi” to be their shock troops. They created this scenario then absolve themselves of the results.
This is all because American and European people are the most genocidal and evil people on earth. They killed hundreds of millions of Indigenous people around the world, especially in the Americas, and they want to continue their global slaughter and extraction to grow their economies. The American and European imperialists need Israel to exist otherwise their economies will contract and they will experience a quick collapse of their “standard of living.”
The missing analysis is that the Israelis are not this way because they are Jewish. They are this way because they are European and American devils.
Another day another Hamid banger
Fuckers came from Europe and NA, killed the Arab Jews of Palestine, and now are claiming to be native to Levant.
Similarly perverse to the Europeans colonizing America only for their descendants to so often claim they are 1/8th Cherokee or some shit.
Deloria jr writes about it in God is Red, but its essentially them trying to steal a connection to the Land.
It seems to be a thing all colonisers do: until Gaul was safe for the Romans and the native culture wiped out Roman hated gallic culture and druids especially; once the native culture was crushed and nonthreatening to Roman rule, you see roman settlers start claiming their great granpa was a druid or a celtic princess or whatever bullshit
killed the Arab Jews of Palestine,
I thought they had succeeded in forcefully assimilating Palestinian Jews because they could avoid being victimized by settler colonial violence by joining it, which is why there are almost zero Jews in the modern persecuted Palestinian populations of colonial subjects. I’m not saying this is definitely true and you’re wrong, just that this is what I thought it was and I was wondering if you or someone else could either explain the relationship between these two accounts or simply tell me that mine is totally mistaken.
I do know of course that a lot of Palestinians are descended from Jews who converted to Christianity or Islam (or both successively), but I assume you don’t mean them.
Jewish population of Palestine was naturalized under Israeli citizenship law, causing the specific “Palestinian Jew” designation to largely recede into historical usage. These communities did not face the same expulsion as the Arab Palestinian population; instead, they integrated into the new state, with many taking part in the IDF.
Yup.
let me inflict a miserable empty life on you and then get gratified by that and my prosperity. i’m not evil you are
Looking at literally any polling is antisemitic
It’s bleak when I’m reminded that many, many leftist spaces still continue to coddle and protect jewish liberal zionists like these no matter how bloodthirsty they get about Arabs and Palestine.
I think a large part of that is because real hatred of Jews is the historical mortar that holds the bricks of fascism together. People have been erring on the side of caution on this for a long time. The dam is breaking, though.
They made life hell for Jews living in West Asia outside the occupation zone. As an example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950–1951_Baghdad_bombings
And when west asian jews commited “aliyah”, their children got abducted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Children_Affair .
Nothing in that tweet is antisemitic btw
I hate liberals who use therapy speak like ”hurt people hurt people” condescendingly.
And the “hurt person” is some fuck named Omer who lived in new york his entire life but his mom moved there for healthcare
It also feels so babyish, that’s how you talk to like a 7 year old about a bully who’s parents are divorced
Reveling in their privilege that they have never suffered
on the last screenshot
by that logic it justifies the likud and the worst forces in the israeli goverment
you dont see people say the holocaust was good because a jew was mean to them. It looks like they just want to justify the brutality of the israeli gov just because a palestinian was mean on not-twitter
I will say that the rare outspoken nazi does say that from what I’ve seen online, however if anything that reinforces your point in that these zionists are bloodthirsty genocidaires at their core.
Lib got scratched.
Just say “israelis” and let the other side expose their support for an ethnostate by changing it to jews.
Sounds good in practice, except that way you give a pass to the other half of genocidal Jewish population (the American Jews).
Similar logic leads to the demsoc phenomenon of saying how an IDF veteran shouldn’t be allowed even for a local dog catcher and then throwing your full support for Graham Platner.
What’s wrong with criticizing Jewish Supremacy Awoo?
Nothing. But interactions with zionists who are not participating in good faith to begin with work out better when they’re the ones that make it about jewishness and out themselves as ethnonationalists. Unless it is jewish people doing the criticism the lay person reads this kind of interaction the same way as they do with a white supremacist saying “black people are only 13% of the population but commit 90% of all violent crime”.
It’s not about right or wrong it’s about being effective and understanding how this comes across to the average person they’re trying to turn against us.
Only Jewish people are allowed to criticize Jewish supremacy?
No, but a good starting point would be to actually use the phrase Jewish Supremacy and Jewish Supremacists when addressing it.
You must understand that the two statements come across differently to the average layman. If a brown person says “the majority of white people support killing brown people” and “the majority of white people hold white supremacist beliefs and support imperialism and forever wars abroad, killing brown people”.
A brown woman can say the exact same ass thing and a lot of laypersons will get a “oh this woman is racist af” or a “oh this woman is kinda right though” depending on how I say that thing.
Whereas if a white person says the first sentence it becomes completely impossible for other white people to dismiss that as racism and so they have to inquire further as to what I mean, eventually getting a better understanding of the position.
Maybe I’m not using the best examples here, I’m sure there are better ones, but you get the jist.
“Layperson” and you’re just describing white racist westerners. Do all political discussions revolve around the possible interpretation from this group of racist “laypersons”?
Feels like you’re more interested in having a fight so I’m just not going to continue this with a 20day old account thanks
"Yall get so uncomfortable with the plain reality that a majority of
Jewsisraeli and a majority ofJewishIsraeli institutions support the genocide, the ethnic cleansing, the mass murder, the stealing of organs, of MY people in Palestine.JewishIsraeli settlers stole my Taita’s house. It’s not my fault they’reJewishIsraeli."Is a completely different, much less controversial statement. The poster is explicitly calling out (the majority of) Jewish people and institutions in the west. And they’re referencing this article which is exactly about out this tone policing and constantly having to ignore the jewish aspect of the jewish ethnostate.
that’s not the same thing though
isn’t that the point? she’s saying that the zionists will conflate the words on your behalf
Except the whole point is that this is not a “conflation”. It’s a statement of fact that almost all Jewish institutions (especially in the West) are vehemetly pro-Israel as so are the vast majority of Jews outside Israel. And we’re talking about recent data, years into a livestreamed genocide by Israel.
At a glance, this feels like it obfuscates some analysis from the Palestinian from the original post. Specifically, institutions outside of Israel voicing support for it. It seems like zionist might get more to the point you’re making, but the assertion would still be structured “many Jewish institutions are zionist”.
At that point, you might get some productive discussion about unease regarding the analysis “what do you gain from specifying a zionist institution is Jewish?” But that would take tact, trust, study, active listening, and familiarity to have a fruitful discussion from there, especially speaking to a victim of a genocidal regime. I think there’d be very little “just” about it even if it’s a defensible position.
Though as I read this back I feel like I misunderstood your point and would like more clarification. Is this a fair rebuttal? I want to keep the post because it seems structurally sound.
Yes the majority of Jews and Jewish institutions support genocide.
Yes the people pointing their guns at and pulling the trigger at Palestinian children are Jews.
Yes the people who choose to torture Palestinian men, women, and children for the crime of having land they want to steal are Jews
However, calling them what they are is antisemitism and mean and thats worse.
And we’re very consistent with this on the left, the fact that Azov nazis receive funding and support for their propaganda from the west to be used as a proxy against Russia excuses them from all their actions as well. No one on the left writes off all Ukrainians, not even ironically
Hard to know what you mean by the last bit.
Leftists on this site will have no issue with treating all Ukrainians as Nazis while making excuses for Jews despite both groups containing people who arent genocidal, both being exposed to genocidal propaganda their entire lives, and both having the agency to not commit war crimes
Just to clarify. Do you mean The Leftists On This Site should treat Jews more like they treat Ukraininas or the other way around?
Yeah we do that for men and whites too. Oppressive nations don’t get special kid glove treatments.
I dont know I have similar attitudes about Ukraine, sure a majority are banderites but there are some that are opposed to their Nazi government, also there are a lot of Ukrainians taking up actual arms against the state press ganging them into war which afaik is more common than any such resistance to Israeli mandatory service.
Palestine is also nowhere comparable to the power of Russian military and if they had that amount of support you would likely see more revolutionary defeatist on the Israeli side.
i think i’m not understanding the tone of your last lines. i see “ukronazi” a lot, specific references to the leadership or the puppet regime, we even (when there was more of a difference) specified if it was azov or the regular military.
Leftists on this site will have no issue with treating all Ukrainians as Nazis while making excuses for Jews despite both groups containing people who arent genocidal, both being exposed to genocidal propaganda their entire lives, and both having the agency to not commit war crimes
I don’t think it’s right to treat all Ukrainians as Nazis even if Ukraine is overall a fascist state that worships a major perpetrator of the Holocaust as its patron saint. I don’t think Israelis live under the same levels of coercion as the Ukrainians who are forbidden from fleeing the country under much greater danger and beaten or held at gunpoint to be dragged to military facilities surrounded by mines to prevent escape, but regardless there is a minority of antizionist Israelis also.
I tend not to bring up this latter point very often because it isn’t that practically important imo, but if we’re discussing the subject directly then it’s worth mentioning.
Yeah tbh if you are barred from leaving the country and are getting press ganged into the military all your choice has been robbed from you at that point
we must not be reading the same ukraine posts
That’s one of the problems with irony, when you change what you’re being ironic about within a post, things get confusing fast, especially when you are ironic about both sides of a contradictory double standard.
I initially thought this was going in another direction, with OOP sardonically pointing out that it is antisemitic to say “Y’all get so uncomfortable with the plain reality that a majority of Jews and a majority of Jewish institutions support [Israel’s war against Hamas].”
Also, the comment about Mizrahis being expelled in 1949… what happened in 1948!?
Plus my understanding of “what their families experienced all across the MENA for centuries” is a level of integration and tolerance within Muslim societies that Christendom could never, with apologies if that’s incorrect.sarcasm
number 1 concern should always be antisemitism over your feelings on being genocided, sorry.
The comments are even more reprehensible! This is the flood gate the Mamdani supporters opened after calling all of Mamdani’s anti-zionist critics antisemitic.
What…are you talking about? What does this have to do with Mamdani, NYC, or his supporters? This obsession with Mamdani is extremely forced
It all started with this guy hyping up all the liberal zionists on bluesky about the “anti-semitism on the far-left” after he saw chuds being anti-semitic on the Nazi website (X).
So some random dude on twitter with a few hundred likes. Again, wtf does this have to do with Mamdani or his supporters? Not saying Mamdani hasn’t been problematic with some of his apologia recently
Look up what his supporters are calling Mamdani’s critics for questioning his new “Combat Antisemitism strategy.”
