as far as I can recall they never even mentioned class
another banger from The Matt-Shaped Hole Podcast
Anyone who is pining for Matt to return to the pod wasn’t listening to what he was saying before he had his stroke.
Give examples plz
He was talking about the futility of online and parasocial relationships. That the better future isn’t going to be built online, but in the real around you.
He had a stroke. Was recently married, had a kid, he has way bigger feasts to grill than podcasting right now.
demsocs are gonna look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves ‘we gotta get more racist’
It’s 2028 and the dsa has split. The right wing of the dsa merges with the Democratic Party to run Kamala Harris with vice president aoc, who has made her final transformation into the gen z hillary Clinton. The left wing of the dsa merges with the acp to run Jackson hinkle, who spends the entire time attacking Harris from the right. The decaying corpse of Donald trump is elected for a third term.
… to the right, right?
the most specific criticism they had was that those saying “abolish prisons and police” did not have well articulated replacements that didn’t sound a lot like lynch mobs
Im fine with both prisons and police. If they’re both working on my side. I dont like state oppression being used against me and would like it to be used on my class enemies. Abolish their’s, its bad. Im iffy on prisons but if the laws are in my favor, I would like them enforced. Im not against the very concept of police. Im against my enemies controlling them and if itd either thst or no police…I guess id take no police but would rather have my own set up and ready to go beforehand.
I dont like state oppression being used against me and would like it to be used on my class enemies.
We have to stop conflating this with abolition. If I want to abolish slavery, or abolish the death penalty, it’s not that I want to be the one to decide who is subjected to those things, it’s that I don’t want anyone to be subjected to those things.
That’s abolition, everything else is a degree of reform.
Why yes I do want a stateless classless moneyless society. I definitely welcome some unforeseen development in social relations that demobilizes the bourgeois remnants without force, but whatever one calls the proletarian bodies that forcibly restrain the bourgeois remnants during a socialist transition, they have been key to thwarting counterrevolution in the past and present.
I absolutely don’t imagine the existing bourgeois police and prison infrastructure being suitable for capture though; it must be dismantled.
What are the best books on police and prison abolition?
Ok
Not what anyone said.
That would be a little optimistic.
i listened to the ep and was about to pull my hair out at that part. will and felix have no clue about the real-world alternatives abolition advocates are calling for, and it starts by demystifying the farcical and sadistic view the average usian has regarding what the police and prisons really are. that’s where there is political ground to be gained, not by more fear mongering. if one genuinely cares about the right-wing canard of “victims’ rights” then prison abolition is the path forward.
the real-world alternatives abolition advocates are calling for
What are you thinking of? A lot of alternatives (including de-criminalizing certain drug use, for instance) do work very well for some cases. I think the trouble starts when you ask what we should do in cases where those alternatives fail.
first, it means we create a system that addresses crime as an outcome, not a cause unto itself, with a refocus from reactive measures (that is, our current system) to preventative ones (increased social services, etc.). this would cost billions of dollars, but good news! there’s billions available in the pigs’ piggybank.
after a crime is committed, it means focusing on restorative justice integrating offenders back into purposeful, beneficial work–especially work tailored to making victims of crime whole–instead of just locking them in a box and pretending that does anything other than facilitate more crime down the road. it doesn’t have to be a labor camp, which is just a prison by another name, but it can at least be something more akin to a job.
i hate hypotheticals, but let’s imagine a crime that can’t be prevented merely due to lifting someone out of poverty, domestic violence, for example. domestic violence rates are higher among the poor, but not zero among the affluent. under the current system, poorer offenders are locked up while wealthier domestic abusers usually get probation. in both case, nothing happens to make the victims safer or restored.
under a restorative justice model, one option (but certainly not the only one) would be putting these offenders under supervised work programs benefiting their victims in some manner, either directly through payouts or systemically in services that tangentially boost the well being of those partners. that is NOT to say that we putremoveds out mowing the lawns of their victims every weekend, but any model that prioritizes the restoration of the victim would be better than what we have now.
I think we should do all of that. We do some of it now (being sentenced to complete community service is “purposeful, beneficial work”), and we also sentence a lot of people to probation, not jail.
Where I see that approach break down is when you have someone keep committing crimes, which is common in your example of domestic violence.
There’s a podcast named after the comm?
Chapo Trap House is a podcast on the media, power, PR and the history of bullshit. It’s hosted by Nima Shirazi and Adam Johnson
No it’s not, the newest chapo is with centre-right australian youtuber friendlyjordies about his house burning down please keep up
lmao
Trueanon interviews Kristo Langker, former producer for friendlyjordies who left to document atrocities in West Papua
Chapo, not wanting to be outdone, just interviews friendlyjordies who has spent 5+ years dropping slurs on anyone to the left of the Labor Right factionI liked the True Anon interview. Really coincides with the Phillipines reporting that they have been doing. Thank God I have no idea who any of these youtubers are, but it isn’t the first time of the last time Chapo will have absolutely shit guests on, without a single actual Marxist activist.
I mean, I’ll still drink that garbage but we can at least be principled enough leftists to be mad at current online thing and not online thing from five days ago smdh
Again‽
I was going to mention in that woke 1.0 thread, chapo hosts have been talking an awful lot about how woke was ‘too much’ and how everyone’s calling everything racist.
I was being too charitable. I thought it was stuff like land acknowledgements and behavior like at a party I went to in 2014 when someone who wasnt the host stopped the tunes and made everyone sit in a circle and state their pronouns. Just like…annoying shit
Even successful movements are open to criticism, and the 2020-era movement was a lot less successful than anyone here would have liked.
You don’t want to just do tailism, but you also don’t want to be so far from the masses that you remain too small and unpopular to accomplish anything. There has to be a way to talk about striking this balance.
The problem was never that they were too progressive. Communists should say what they mean and not shift their platform to the right – concede in advance – in the name of liberal electability. Having a radical platform that you have been honest and consistent about that can actually address people’s needs is valuable, and the problems laid in other cases where people did a catastrophically obtuse job of articulating their positions.
can you be specific?
Prison abolition is an example discussed in the episode. Consider the maximalist position: abolition abolition, the idea that no type of government, even one leftists control, should put people actually guilty of serious crimes in even the most humane of prisons. I don’t think rejecting that (especially as part of an immediate platform) is tailism. It’s not popular, sure, but that’s not why it should be rejected. It should be rejected because it’s a bad idea for the foreseeable future. No AES state does that, for instance. Committing to a radical idea and not shying away from it only makes sense if that radical idea is a good one in the first place.
And even if you disagree with that entire paragraph, we have to be able to talk about it among people broadly to the left of the Democratic Party without rapidly descending to insults. I sometimes see the approach of jumping straight to berating people if they don’t immediately agree. There’s some value to that approach with actual reactionaries, but if we apply it even to people who see Democrats as right wing we’re well on the road to “too small and unpopular to accomplish anything.” At some point you have to go through the effort of trying to convince someone you’re right.
ok this makes more sense than the discourse on the trueanon sub. does abolish ice fall into the same trap because people say “oh so open borders anybody can come in and nobody will deport them?” or is it different because it’s not a fundamental institution of the state?
“Abolish ICE” is something I’d stick by. ICE didn’t exist before 2002 and it’s not as if the country was falling apart. Customs is a reasonable thing to have, but we already have Customs and Border Patrol. There are legitimate reasons you’d want to arrest and deport someone (a decent government might do so for someone wanted on an ICC warrant), but you can have the FBI do that. ICE adds nothing besides the capacity to do deportations at scale, which is a good thing to oppose.
i think they didn’t go too far enough!
:jack-johnson: :john-jackson:
oh is this why everyone’s talking about woke 1? what a joke lmao thank god we changed the name
Not even. What the podcast was talking about is the same thing they said last election cycle. Everything else is terminally online nonsense that’s clogging the feed. Chapo is washed. Media is entertainment, and USians can’t handle that.
idk i wasn’t listening to them last election cycle either, stopped after the taibbi ep
SEX EMOJIWhat is a chapo trap house? This is the official website of the citations needed podcast
Cowards deleted it lol
This?
Yeah thats the one
Sadly no.
Wait did they post an ep and delete it?
No it’s 5 days old
Unsurprising
