Have you ever been checked for Oppositional Defiance Disorder? Because as someone who has it, you just described it to a T.
That’s not oppositional defiance disorder.
Oppositional Defiance Disorder was when republicans ran campaigns against vaccines simply because Democrats supported making vaccines affordable and available to everyone.
Republicans literally blamed their outsized deaths and disabilities from COVID on Democrats pushing people so hard to get their shots.
Asking why, and refusing to do something because it lacks a logical precedent is not oppositional defiance, it’s basic awareness and attention to your surroundings.
I guess my diagnosis is just republican propaganda then.
You can both have it, and be wrong about what it is in this specific instance.
Why is psychology this way?
the coolest thing ever is
The BAD EVIL Disorder
in psychology language
everything has to be a “disorder”
They name the conditions by how they affect normal people, not how the conditions affect us.
Admittedly, I literally told off a priest and a cop at completely different times in the same day, when I was 5…
Nobody bothers observing what the difference between insanity and madness is.
Insane: a subjective observation you make about another, they clearly have a self-consistent reasoning process with a metric that you don’t share. But communication and cooperation is still possible. Aka Neurodivergent
Mad: an objective observation that someone is illogical, goes against established and observable evidence, may harm self or others, aka nut case
Edit: clarified sentences
bestie, wtf are you talking about?
Neurodivergence as a concept and how academic psychology perceives it. Everything is a disorder if it doesn’t fit the neurotypical mould.
Here’s my argument from Mastodon regarding this: https://mastodon.social/@voodooattack/116564124322479196
I don’t need to read your argument because I came to the exact same conclusion. I just don’t think madness or insanity are useful terms for understanding psychology, nor is making a distinction between the two really worth the effort.
Anything that is not a cis white guy who wants to march waving a big national flag is a disorder.
YES !!
The Hessians complained about colonial troops questioning orders and lacking discipline.
Why can’t I sit in the floor in the middle of a grocery store? Why can’t I just hang out in a public restroom drinking a Pepsi? Why shouldn’t I practice my singing in line at the theme park? Explain it to me clearly.
Floor is dirty. You can sit on the floor if you want to get dirty.
People are farting and making piss mist in the bathroom, if you want to eat food in there, you can, but it’s weird and gross.
You can practice your singing in line at a theme park, you may annoy people to the point that you get kicked out of line, or assaulted. Seems like good reasons not to do it IMHO, but maybe you are a better singer than I am, good luck with that.
“it’s weird”
“it’s gross”
“other people won’t like you if you do it”
I thought neurodivergents hated such reasoning lol
Maybe, but they wanted the info on why they shouldn’t do those things. Now they have the info, and they can make their own decisions.
but… you can do all these things, if you want to.
If you can’t abide by social or workplace norms, then don’t expect people to want to be around you, or want to work with you.
Oh no
anyway…
Oh no, someone voicing an opinion besides “people should be endlessly catered to and those people should never make an effort to cater to others” how shocking right?
It seems like you don’t know what it’s like to be neurodivergent or have a disability.
People who are different or disabled can go their entire lives not being catered to, while constantly being told their entire lives to adapt every aspect of their being to simply be allowed to participate or fit in (mask), and still meet extreme discrimination and exclusion - even though there are supposed to be protections for disabled people and employers promise extra hard to not discriminate in every job posting.
Think solid barriers to employment, education, etc. all because it’s annoying for people with little problems adapting to society to give them a little bit of consideration and support, or at the very least to not discriminate against them.
This is the most irritating part for me. I tried for most of my life to be normal and not only was my life miserable, I ultimately failed to hide my quirks enough to be accepted. Only by embracing my weirdness have I found acceptance, as people like “quirky and confident” more than “shy and awkward”
I’m trying to get to that point myself and stop masking so much! I feel that you are 100% right too, I believe people love authenticity.
When people see somebody who is relaxed and accepts themselves, they are more likely to be relaxed and accepting as well.
Thanks for sharing 💚
Displays of consideration can go so far in bridging these gaps. Ask your questions, but by prefacing with a statement like “I just want to understand this rule better” or “Out of curiosity” or something like that can make the questions much more palatable to neurotypicals.
Wouldn’t you like it more if you got an actual explanation? Maybe you should look into that instead of dismissing others as “oh look its mr questioning over there”. Maybe they got a point… authority, especially that of reactionaries, is questionable.
Sure in an ideal world you’re right. The other side of that, is when I’m in a professional or learning environment, and it’s constantly being interrupted by arbitrary questions by people.
I had a college class that got entirely derailed by two people like this, and they were actually things I dearly wanted to learn. Instead, we were constantly interrupted by people wanting these questions answered.
Is that fair to me, who paid like 2500 dollars to be in that class? I’m sorry, but I don’t think it is. It’s disruptive, and it is wasting the time of the (in this case) lecturer and the people there to learn.
And you think they didn’t pay either?
View what they ask as something positive instead. You also learn from them.
Lectures aren’t there to just sit and listen. They’re there to listen and talk together, discussing the content. To me, that’s better than a class full of yea-nodders. I want people that question. People that learn. Not people that just repeat.
I find that a credible threat of violence will usually suffice to get me to do it, also.
Literally how the military (and government) works, in a nutshell.
And what if they give you the reason and you don’t agree with it? Plenty of those guys around during COVID
I don’t think problems with authority were what caused all the bullshit around COVID. It wasn’t neurodivergent/anti authority people causing problems, but anti-intellectual conservatives who saw inconvenience as oppression. Most of them were normies who couldn’t handle that the social norms they were used to needed to temporarily change to save lives, and had grifters willing to exploit their discomfort. It was a cultural phenomenon, not a personal one.
i’m of the opinion that willfully choosing to break a rule after being told why it exists would belong in a different category than not understanding why the rule exists and thus not being able to justify its relevancy.
there are too many systems with conflicting contradictory rules where following all of them is literally impossible and even neurotypicals have to cull instructions on the basis of relevancy as a result, after all…
Who are also anti choice when it comes to abortion.
The pandemic was something we didn’t deal with properly as a society, precisely because people were smeared and shamed for having questions and concerns (however valid).
We could’ve done better. We are less prepared as a society than we otherwise would’ve been if COVID didn’t become a partisan issue, with major experts (from my POV) doing everything they could to not alleviate and address concerns, instead encouraging a culture of fear and a culture of shaming and smearing people who question authority, with no shades of gray.
If experts encouraged and facilitated dialogue and education, if hospitals/businesses/etc. were held to account for not having proper stocks of PPE or other sensible mitigations to deal with a pandemic, if ventilation became a bigger concern for businesses to address… I could go on. Things could’ve been better.
They still can be better, especially if we welcome questions and concerns and address them fairly, instead of picking the most outrageous examples of questions and concerns, and acting as if anybody who questions the experts or authority (in a general sense) are just as outrageous or dangerous.
i’m not sure why “social cues” and “authority” would have much to do with each other, it’s not like anarchists are socially inept, in fact being socially adept is kinda a core part of functional anarchy.
I dislike arbitrary things as well, but thanks to the magic of understanding how to be social i can just talk to people about it and explain why i think arbitraryness sucks ass, and they then treat me nicely and feel bad about my struggles since i’m so easy to deal with.
And it’s not like i’m some 10 charisma bard, simply being chill and not actively unpleasant gets you 80% of the way. Even if you never make eye contact you’ll still be seen as pretty normal if you speak normally and follow basic conversational etiquette.Realistically, this is how I actually handle these situations. I don’t like being rude to people, even when I refuse to follow norms. Besides, I get away with a lot more rule breaking when I am nice and likable.
A common issue autistic people have is with “implied authority”, which has the same main issue as social cues. Doing things because “that’s how its always been”. A manager who has a job due to nepotism and a common courtesy that is just a white lie are going to cause the same kind of rage in an autist. If it can’t be explained in a way that is logical and fair, they will not have any patience for it.
This meme is not about anarchists.
I feel like you’re talking about a completely different thing, though. You can be no-nonsense but still nice to interact with, it’s something i’ve gotten hugely better at in just the past like 7 years.
Like in the example of someone who got their job due to nepotism i’d just bring that up to people i trust and report it to wherever such things are reported, your union representative if nothing else. I wouldn’t say “you’re a nepo hire and i don’t like that” to their face because that would be terrifying to deal with, but i wouldn’t be silent about it either.
If your response would instead be to rage about it to their face, then; like others have said, i think that goes beyond just autism and into oppositional disorder or whatever.
Ah pathological demand avoidance. It’s not my inability to cope with ambiguity that’s the problem, it’s everyone else’s inability to meet my arbitrary standards.
It’s not an inability to cope with ambiguity, it’s a “I want to know if this is just another arbitrary rule set for a dumb reason but I’m asking because it might be another rule that looks dumb but actually makes sense when you understand the complexities”. It’s also a rejection of the idea that ambiguity should be coped with instead of seeking understanding. “Must accept ambiguity” sounds pretty arbitrary itself, not to mention stupid in this world where those who set rules often don’t have the interests of those they want following them in mind when setting those rules.
We’re describing different things.
Seeking understanding is fine. Someone’s mom would love for you to understand their lifetime of trauma that rule prevents happening to your mom.
Challenging rules to avoid altering behavior, not to understand, is more the point of pathological demand avoidance. It is inherently not about why, it’s about a rule existing.
That’s the good thing about life experience, it answers many of these questions for you.
Yeah righteous indignation can feel nice, cathartic some might say. It will seldom inspire gratitude or bon homie in your peers, but go 'head and do you
The nice thing about peers is that you can pick them. Don’t mistake you not qualifying as a friend for us not getting to have good friends.
“That’s just how it is” is not a good reason, just fucking explain to my autistic ass!
I work with a guy like this and he has my eternal allegiance.
The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something that we make, and could just as easily make differently.
– David Graeber
More people need to read his books if for no other reason than to have their eyes opened to that.
A good starting point (since it’s not too long) would be There Never Was A West or (longer but still manageable) Bullshit Jobs. I belong to the people who enjoyed both Debt and The Dawn Of Everything from cover to cover.
Yeah I was thinking The Dawn of Everything is probably the most valuable of his writings to read. It’s long, but it demonstrates how everything can be different and it’s entertaining and fascinating the whole way through.
Though I’ll put A Utopia of Rules in next to Bullshit Jobs for the “you know stuff sucks, let’s discuss it” category of his writing.
My biggest motivation to work is pure spite. Especially as an engineer. If I’m told my idea for something is shit without sufficient explanation - I’ll be secretly working on that to either discover myself why it’s shit or come back at ya with “SEE?!”.
this is basically how the scentific process was invented.
“your shit sucks”
“yeah? prove it, fuckface”
“WELL HAHA HERE’S A FUCKING EXPERIMENT THAT PROVES IT, SUCK IT WHOPAOW”I do that a lot
