I kinda miss a few opinions on the topic of “screw taste” here. 🥲
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Robertson and hex are fine. In the far reaches of the world those can be quite common.
Half of those screws are Robertson if you’re in a pinch.
Both Phillips/slotted hybrid and Hexagon should not be in corporate propaganda as they have valid use cases.
Genuinely curious as I had absolutely no clue hexagon even existed, what is the use case for them? And for the combo slotted/Phillips?
It’s used for Allen/hex keys, a cheap and easy to ship version of screwdrivers that are especially popular with assembly kits such as Ikea furniture.
You’ve never assembled ikea furniture?
Most screws on bicycles are hexagon.
Not only there, but also very commonly used in 3D printing and industrial applications like mounting stuff on metal rails. Main disadvantage is that there are barely any versions that sit flush, so you either have to design your part with an indent or use them for designs where it doesnt matter.
it’s missing the brand new BMWTM screw
Those just taste like boot leather
Every screw eventually becomes a slot screw if it pisses you off enough
Where is the infinite tsukuyomi head??
Half of these look like anime eyes.
Reject screw. Return to nail.
I see, you decided to pick 2 pieces of shit.
Phillips proceeds to strip when I look at it badly.
Slotted keeps kicking out the screwdriver.Robertson is the top. It holds onto the screwdriver even without magnet, and good luck stripping a square.
Phillips usually strip when using a pozidrive screw driver on them. Very common mistake because people think they are the sams, but easy to avoid once you know it.
Also, the fit has to be tight. If it’s loose, the screw driver is too small.
Posidrive is not that common and not the problem. Phillips heads strip because they’re designed to cam out and prevent snapping heads or overtorquing. JIS is same cross shape but doesnt cam out, which is good for avoiding stripping the heads but makes it easier to snap the head off of screws
Phillips heads are not designed to cam out. They were designed to not cam out. Common myth that keeps getting repeated, to explain their poor performance.
Maybe in the US, but Pozidrive is very common here in Germany and other european countries in the form of “Spax” screws. They are the main screws we get for everything from wood working to wall mounts for pictures. They also don’t strip as easily as philips screws.
And trust me, I have seen plenty of philips screws beeing stripped ue to the use of pozi screw drivers while beeing perfectly okay when beeing removed with a philips screwdriver. Of course there are other reasons they strip as you mentioned, but here in Germany its a huge problem because Pozidrive is so common and people dont know the difference.
The reason for the stripping , that the shape of the tip is different.
Source: pbswisstools.com
(This information is incorrect, see the reply below.)
Pozidriv drivers actually work very well on Philips screws, sometimes better than Philips drivers, due to the fact that the “vanes” are angled rather than curved, proving a larger contact area. Fit is definitely the larger factor, along with the quality of the screw metal.They’re both junk next to Robertson though.
I beg to differ. It’s the other way around. Using a pozidriv screwdriver on a philips screw almost guarantwes that you will strip the head when tightening.
Tip: In case of doubt, use a Phillips screwdriver. While they do not perfectly fit into the Pozidriv screws, one can at least insert the correct size. The use of Pozidriv screwdrivers in Phillips screws works only with screwdrivers that are too small and easily leads to damage of the screw or the tool.
You can find a pretty good explanation here or here
More sources: Mechanics on Stackoverflow
Whoops, you’re right, I had my memory of the geometries mixed up.
There is this interesting video that suggests that JIS drivers (a Japanese standard) work pretty well for all cruciform heads.
Maybe. The opposite isn’t really true in my experience. Pozi drivers work well enough on JIS heads but Philips drivers slip way too easily. The bad thing is that JIS looks like Phillips heads which probably is part of the reason for Phillips rep of slipping out.
No, no they don’t. You mix up Philips and JIS, you WILL have a bad day.
Source: I’m an old toolmaker that has made some nice pocket change over the years drilling out stripped out JIS screws on motorcycle engines from owners that didn’t know the difference. A decent amount from repeat customers too…
stripped out JIS screws
Oh, I absolutely believe that a Philips driver would ruin just about any other type of screw, but I don’t think that’s what the video talks about—they suggest using JIS drivers with Philips screws. Have you also seen problems with that combination?
When I was a toolmaker, a large part of my day was often spent removing stripped fasteners that others had messed up. And yes, I have seen that done, JIS used in place of Philips. They do equal damage, equally as well, and equally as easily.
The largest problem with ANY fastener system is that users are too stupid, lazy, and cheap to:
- Buy quality fasteners. Cheap, Cheerful Chinese fasteners can often come pre-damaged and are cheese soft, saving so much time. Properly made, more expensive fasteners will seldom cause you a problem. (And yes, the Chinese do make quality items. YOU just won’t pay for them)
- Buy quality tools and be sure they fit your fasteners correctly. The dollar store ain’t selling quality anything, anywhere, in that store.
- Inspect your tools for wear and damage. They are consumables. Toss them when damaged or worn out.
- Use the right tool for the job. If you don’t have the right tool, go buy it. Don’t try and fudge it.
Philips is designed to allow the screwdriver to slip out so you don’t over-torque the screw. If you’re stripping them, you’re probably using too much torque. But, it might not be your fault, because a lot of people use Philips screws when they shouldn’t, and use too much torque when screwing them in.
As for slotted, those just suck. I guess one benefit is that you can use an over-sized head on small screws. But, slotted is really the wrong choice almost every time.
Philips is designed to allow the screwdriver to slip out
That’s a myth. I’ve read the entire patent and there is no mention of it, and later patents are just post-hoc justifications for an objectively faulty, inferior design.
My charitable hypothesis is that the design uses shallower angles that are easier to cam out because sharp angles would result in stress fractures during the cold forming of the screw heads. My realistic hypothesis is that dies with shallow angles are cheaper to produce and more durable. But the point is moot: the Phillips didn’t become the de facto standard because of any practical advantage (real or perceived), but because Robertson wasn’t willing to sell exclusive rights to Ford.
I’m usually not one to criticise a person’s life choices, but if you think Phillips is better than the popular alternatives, I immediately think less of you as a person.
Ok, it’s more accurate to say that the fact that the screw will cam out is something that was key to its adoption, even if it wasn’t designed to happen.
Quoting “One Good Turn - A natural history of the screwdriver and the screw” by Witold Rybczynski:
Paradoxically, this very quality is what attracted automobile manufacturers to the Phillips screw. The point of an automated driver turning the screw with increasing force popped out of the recess when the screw was fully set, preventing overscrewing. Thus, a certain degree of cam-out was incorporated into the design from the beginning. However, what worked on the assembly line has bedevilled handymen ever since.
https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/were-phillips-screwdrivers-designed-to-cam-out/57870/9
People are brainwashed by phillips corporate propaganda to believe phillips is a good screw head.
6-lobe tamper is great for acute psychiatry and corrections where you’re dealing with violent and self injurious behavior. You don’t want people pulling screws out to make shivs / lockpicks / things to slit their wrists with or pulling utility plates off the wall to access wiring for fire setting or expose studs or plumbing to anchor a noose on. It’s a lot harder to improvise a tool to remove a 6-lobe than it is a flat or even a Phillips.
A narrow flat blade, like 3/16 or 5/32 will go between the lobes and center piece and allow the screw to be backed out. Done it with loads of HP SAS that insist on T10 security screws.
you take that back about the square drive and pin that shit on the phillips head
context: the square drive was designed as a universal open standard for affixing things to other things. the phillips head was designed as a cheap alternative to torque wrenches
Square bit as the go-to general purpose bit is the correct opinion. Every time I have to pull my square bit off to put a Philips on I am just disappointed.
Designed as? No, it was a happy accident. The original patent mentioned nothing about it, and then when they realized they could make that claim the patent was updated.
Fuck phillip head everything.
spanner is pretty tasty usually for me but phillips and slotted depends on where it was. id argue thats propaganda since its seen everywhere. specialized screws i think are usually upkept well enough to be tasty.
Slotted screws belong in the trailerpark
The thing with slotted screws is that the screw itself is awful, but a flathead screwdriver in and of itself is such a useful tool you’re always gonna have one, so the screw kinda hangs around.
If a screw is totally stripped it’s nice to use a Dremel to just cut a slot and then be able to extract the screw.
The argument being: if it wasn’t a slotted screw before, it is now?
The only reason robertson isn’t the standard in NA is because the inventor was a moron and wouldn’t license the production to ford
TBF Henry Ford was a literal Nazi and I probably wouldn’t want to license anything to him either.
Torx is the vastly superior option and Robertson drive are also really good
I’d argue that Robertson is actually superior to Torx, since the “vanes” of the Torx head are more prone to stripping than the solid right angles.
I think Torx tend to be used on things that are assembled by machines. It might be better to use Torx on things that are machine-assembled. In that case you have to care about the wear and tear on the screw drivers, and a Torx design might last a bit longer. With a square head there’s going to be a tendency for the driver to become rounded over time.
Also much harder to insert for a machine. A torx bit can be inserted every 60 degree turn, which means it has to turn a maximum of 30 degree in either direction to slot in. Robertson an philips need to be turned 90 degree, so 45 degrees in either direction.
I think hex is superior to both as it’s way harder to strip than a torx and it has 50% more options for starting angle than a robertson, which comes in handy when you can only get at the bolt head from a right angle, while being almost nearly as grippy and strip-resistant. Plus it’s presumably simpler to machine than a torx star.
The biggest problem I have with hex drives is that there are far too many sizes, (in multiple systems!) meaning you have to carry dozens of bits, and using a size that’s just a little too small creates a huge strip risk.
Robertson and Torx both use a comparatively limited number of sizes, which makes the logistics way easier.
Even just counting metric there are far too many sizes of hex bits. Adding inch sizes further complicates things, and as you say, the similarly of some of them to their metric counterparts isn’t helping; is 5/32 close enough to 4mm to not break things? Who knows!
With that said, torx is really no picnic either. T6, 8, 10, 15, 20, 25, 27, 30, and 40 all seem to be in relatively common use, and I’m not sure they all need to be. Not to mention the (relatively common) security variants of at least the 10 through 40.
I think #1 - #4 square are the only ones I’ve ever seen in the wild, though I’m informed security versions of at least #2 - #4 exist too.
Phillips strips because it was designed to. Literally. And I fucking hate it.
Slotted is a bitch unless you have the motor skills of a neurosurgeon.
All tamper screws are offensive to me on a religious/spiritual level.
It wasn’t designed to strip when overtorqued. It’s a myth with no evidence. The original patent says nothing about it (I’ve read the whole patent), and later patents list it as post-hoc justification for a design fault.
Really? We were actually taught this in college but come to think of it I never did read the fucking patent.
Look, what’s important is we all seamlessly transition to Robertson screws….
(Honestly I’m convinced it’s just spite for Canada that we haven’t already)
Add it to the list of reasons to hate Henry Ford. When he needed a new screw standard to replace slotted screws in his factories, he went to Robertson first, but he wasn’t willing to sell production rights to Ford. His second choice, Phillips, took the offer. Phillips and similar cruciform screw heads (Pozidriv and JIS, both of which are superior to Phillips) proliferated globally because of this, and it would take a massive shift in the industry today to fully transition to Robertson or Torx.
Nah, I love me some Torx (especially T15 or T20), and maybe Pozi, if you need a cross-slit screw head, but plain PH? Miss me with that.
