Or perhaps people are starting to realize that you don’t need a new car as soon as your 5-year loan is paid off.
I do okay financially; if I wanted a new car, I’d buy one. I bought mine brand new off the lot 15 years ago, and I intend to keep driving it until I can no longer repair it. Why would I possibly want to buy a new, 5G-connected, spyware-infected plastic shitbox when what I have works perfectly well and probably has another 100k miles of life with a few minor repairs and maybe an engine swap at 2-300k or so?
Only reason Id buy a new car is to get a full electric, affordable, nontesla that has more than 150 horsepower.
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CarPlay and radar cruise control are worth it for commuting imo… but beyond that I don’t care.
2021 civic I’ll be driving into the ground thank you very much.
Installed CarPlay in my 2011 car. It’s awesome and still no car payment.
Did AA/carplay on mine too and it t was surprisingly easy, literally plug n’ play on a VW.
I frequent the Bay Area (Cali) and wouldn’t dream of taking a car without some semi-autonomous driving features. Sitting in traffic while the car brakes, accelerates and steers is the best.
As a lover of manual transmissions, I think that would make me feel very strange.
It’s takes sometimes an hour to go 15 miles up hills on 680 in the bay. My competition clutch car can help me enjoy the canyon roads, but my “self driving” car can take care of my “grindset” driving.
I used to drive all around the Bay Area with my Honda del Sol. Ah, good times. I miss my twenties.
Car payments are a poverty trap. I haven’t had one in a decade. Buying a used car for cash is such a better deal anyway. I do need suckers to get those 1-2 year leases though to make my cars cheaper.
Only reason I am thinking of replacing our car is because a BEV would pay for itself fairly quickly if I hear back from a job I applied to that has a 50 mile round-trip commute. Gas alone would be an extra $1000 per year compared to our current 11 year old vehicle.
I’d personally wait a bit as the market is trending down from the high prices during COVID and manufacturers are slowly rolling out more and more incentives again.
There are a good amount of incentives for EVs honestly. My state is also giving a more inclusive rebate for them.
Same, my 2013 Sonata Hybrid has ~80’000 miles (130k km), paid off yeeeaaarrrsss ago, no problem with it, why change?
My 2010 Passat Wagon has 211000 Miles and is about to get its first set of new shocks/struts. some big things I had to replace were the mechatronics and rebuilt the cylinder head. Cylinder head was because I ignored a timing issue with the chains. Chime in if you have high mileage.
For sure. I had my last car for 20 years until it finally NEEDED to be replaced. And my current car I’ve had for five years. After paying it off early, I’ve enjoyed not having that payment, and I hope it lasts just as long as my last car.
How to sound like a boomer without saying you’re a boomer.
“It’s just more stuff to break! I don’t need none of that wifi or internets and touch screens or whathaveya”
Not wanting unnecessary “features“ that are just thinly veiled spyware that overcomplicate every aspect of driving is not a boomer opinion. Wanting buttons you can feel without looking for instead of a giant screen that has automatic updates and needs to have access to your cellphone for basic functionality is not a boomer opinion.
Knowing that tacking voice activation onto every ‘smart’ device, including vehicles, is just an excuse for companies to record everything you say for their shitty marketing isn’t a boomer opinion.
In my experience doing tech work, boomers love that shit and fall for all of it, and it all fucks up in some way much more quickly than should be allowed.
I guess you didn’t see the recent article that studied all the information manufacturers collect on you in these new generation of vehicles. Some notable ones are Nissan and Kia collecting information on your sexual activity and six companies collecting your genetic information all for what? So you can control Spotify from your infotainment screen?
I’m not OP, but if wanting cars that have physical buttons and cars that don’t charge me subscription fees makes me a boomer, then I guess I’m a boomer.
Okay techbro
What a strange take. In fact most highly technical people tend to want simple unless they have enough money to treat things like cars as toys.
Ya if you don’t like pissing your money away that makes you a boomer!
Sick take chief.
My new favorite game is:
When the news says “high prices”, replace it with “low wages”; “inflation” with “paycuts”.
The whole economy starts to make a lot more sense.
Someone make this a browser extension
Yeah I mean even just go to BLS inflation calculator and put in car prices. Cars are cheap, but if federal min wage was equal to min wage in 1960 (and this is by official stats) it would be able $16 an hour. Cars are cheap, we’re getting shafted on pay like hell. Hopefully tech moves so fast it just blows everything out of the water. Hopefully not literally. Hopefully not hell on the other side. Time will tell. But my backup is a shotgun to the forehead so I got my backup plan lol
Please don’t have my backup plan. Truly a “if it’s hell on earth” situation. It just gives me mild comfort I can extinguish at least my human consciousness is necessary. Lol
How dare people decide to hold onto their current cars instead of paying 9% on a 60K car!
Won’t somebody please think of the shareholders?!?
Great news. Cars are lasting longer these days. Only late stage capitalism could spin that as a bad thing.
Right? They portray it as a problem rather than as a sign that cars have finally hit the point where they’re not dramatically improving in reliability, safety, and efficiency nearly as quickly anymore. That is not a bad thing really.
For capitalists, a healthy used market is a bad thing. Captial requires continuous production to make returns on itself.
One of the few things anymore that has a really strong used market besides cars is housing, so the capitalists switched their investment from developing new housing to vacuuming up the existing stock to instead collect rent and increase the value of their portfolio.
Safety is still improving. There are quite a bit more safety features in average cars than 12 years ago. Blind spot detection, collision warnings, brake assist, lane departure, rearview cameras, pedestrian detection, more airbags, driver attention warnings, etc.
A lot of those features were more often available in luxury cars, but they are becoming standard everywhere.
Yes, but the difference in safety over 12 years from a 2000 -> 2012 is much bigger than 2012 -> 2024. There are a lot more features now to stop a crash from occurring, but in terms of crash safety which is what a lot of people consider in buying a car, the difference is much less.
Wrapped myself around a telephone pole several years ago in a 2013 SUV and didn’t have a scratch on me. Crumple zones are one of the greatest inventions of the past few decades.
Saying cars aren’t improving in reliability, safety, and efficiency anymore is a bit of a simplification given the massive upheaval underway as the industry electrifies. BEVs are a massive step change in efficiency. My takeaway is just that shortages during COVID increased prices, coupled with inflation and high interest rates making the payments mind boggingly stupid as people are squeezed financially. I wish it was people driving less and riding ebikes more, but not sure any data points to that.
Every car I have ever owned since I started driving in the 1990s, I have driven until I can’t anymore. Either they got too old and broke down or something was just so expensive to fix that it wasn’t worth it or someone totaled it. All of them have been bought used as well. And I plan to do it again with my 2016 Prius. I’d love to own an EV, but no way am I going to look into getting one until the Prius isn’t driveable any longer. If that’s more than 12.6 years, so be it.
I’m in your camp. Take care of them and drive them into the ground.
I can understand the lure of buying a new car. They’re neat and shiny and have features your car doesn’t. But it’s so wasteful and unnecessary. It’s not like upgrading a computer because it won’t work with any modern software and you won’t be able to use the internet. A model A Ford can drive on the same roads as a Tesla assuming it’s been maintained.
It also won’t drive you into a train against your will.
Macroeconomically, it’s not wasteful because cars find new life in resale. It’s definitely wasteful to your pocketbook to get a new car every 5 years.
Right, but only the first buyer gets to decide what’s produced. So someone buying new dumb pickups every two years is flooding the market with gas guzzlers and this results is much more waste than someone doing the same with Camrys. That’s not the same definition of waste that you used though, but I wanted to chime in because the new car buyers define the future used market.
True, that!
I feel like driving a car into the ground isn’t taking care of it…
300k miles, then engine swap!
where I like salt gets the body before the engine goes. I have 220k on one and it is starting to rust through.
Frame and body repair, or get a donor car!
Nice in 220. What car you got?
Town and counry minivan.
can you put on a rustproof undercoat?
3M Professional Grade Rubberized Undercoating. … WD-40 Specialist Long-Term Corrosion Inhibitor. … Rust Converter Extra. … Fluid Film Protectant and Lubricant. … CRC White Lithium Grease Spray. … Rust-Oleum 7776830 Stops Rust Spray Paint. … Boeshield T-9 Rust & Corrosion Protection.
Drive it until the frame is toast is what I do, then I buy the same car used and the old becomes a donor.
“Durable goods lasting longer than ever, but spun as economic anxiety”
Sort of. I’m glad we are wasting less in terms of automobile manufacture, but this is caused by price gouging on the part of automakers more than anything.
That means when we all eventually have to buy another car, we’re just going to get fucked.
It’s not just price gouging. Cars are more reliable. you can reliably get to 150k+ miles without major repairs, and get 200+ with some repairs, just replacing wear items. That wasn’t the case in the 80s and 90s.
That’s been the case for at least the past couple of decades. The massive price increases have been over the past 4 years.
Cars have been going up a long time before the last 4 years. 72 and 84 month auto loans being a thing at all is proof of that.
Average car price before the pandemic was about $38k. By 2023, it was $49k.
The trend has been ongoing for a long time due to general inflation and a growing preference for SUVs, but it went fucking bananas during the pandemic, and auto manufacturers have taken advantage.
So many of these cars are designed overseas, too. Its almost as though countries that don’t have unlimited access to pillaged resources consider durability, energy efficiency, and ease of maintenance to be value-adds rather than profit-reducers.
Also, it should be noted that Americans basically don’t make sedans anymore. Its all trucks and suvs.
My baby turns 24 this year 🥹
I seriously have an emotional attachment to my car at this point. Driving something for so long, I’m going to be sad when it bites the dust. I’m shooting for another 10 years or until it hits 300k miles.
Wow 24 years and still under 300k? Impressive
I was fortunate enough to live very close to my job for a number of years. Now I wfh so she doesnt get a lot of mileage these days either.
I’m daily driving a 32-year old car. I have no interest in something newer. AMA.
Please tell us more. Make? Model? Any modifications? Your history with the car?
It’s a blue 1992 Mazda Miata with a hardtop. I’ve owned it for about 7 years. No mods besides basics like a bluetooth radio and a short fixed antenna (instead of the factory retracting whip antenna). Maintenance is easy and replacement parts are dirt cheap. Recently replaced the clutch master/slave cylinders for about $40 worth of parts. A set of four tires can easily be found under $400. It averages around 26.5 miles per gallon in combined city/highway driving and I got 32 on my last long distance highway trip.
Are you in a rust prone area?
I love my Miata but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to daily it. Especially in winter.
I live in a 7a USDA Plant Hardiness Zone, so it gets down to around 0°F and salt is definitely used in the winter. However, if I drove a different car, then it would be the one to get the additional wear and tear. Seems more cost effective to limit the exposure to one vehicle.
Also, I’m not one to baby my belongings. I mentioned the car is blue from the factory, but it’s currently rocking a used red front bumper cover and hood after a front-end collision. In another example of my vehicular abuse, I had to replace the power steering rack after a failed attempt at a creek crossing. Water got in the original one and it started getting crunchy. Parts aren’t too expensive though, so it was fixed with a $400 remanufactured unit off eBay.
E: This Miata got pulled out of the creek the next morning after we sobered up and went out to buy a tow strap. Again AMA.
7a is barely getting salt in the roads.
Fair, but I think I highlighted my other abuses. Salt isn’t the only enemy, sometimes it’s myself.
Ah man, I wish I lived in a climate where I could daily an NA Miata (or any other classic).
They also last longer. Cars used to turn into a pile of rust before they hit 100k miles
For light or commuter use maybe. Ive had three ford pickup trucks that have spent more time in the dealer shop than on my farm this year. And a waiting list over a month to get them in. Constant problems from day one. Recalls, premature breakages and issues i normally dont see until well past 150k miles. Mid duty or heavy duty use vehicles dont exits anymore. I cant even change brake pads on a new chevy truck without a computer reset at the dealer. It is beyond infuriating.
Hard disagree. Rust is a consequence of the material, not of the vehicle’s vintage. Furthermore, older cars are not only simpler and easier to work on, but also, parts are cheaper. If any 1990s Honda isn’t making it to at least 200k miles, its an anomaly.
What are you talking about? American made cars (majority of historical volume) were notoriously bad until recently. Hondas and Toyotas were the exception. Now the expectation is that every make/model makes it to 200k miles.
And rust was an issue because they used inferior paint on older vintages. I don’t see how blaming it on material deficiencies supports your point.
I think you’re conflating American-made and American-branded. Most of the Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc. vehicles are still made in the USA and are part of the majority market share you mention. These cars lasted 200k easily, and usually past the 300k mark.
That’s the case now, but not historically. The big 3 were making garbage cars until foreign companies expanded their US presence with domestic manufacturing. Widespread foreign makes built in the US is relatively recent.
Yeah in the 80’s people in the US were freaking out about Japanese cars but in the end the US cars became better in order to compete
Older cars for sure did rust faster because the manufacturers didn’t adopt galvanizing until the late 80’s. Then in the 90’s various other spray coatings and sealers became common. Aluminum is also now prevalent to save weight.
Old cars in the south and southwest didn’t have road salt accelerating the oxidation. But if they were brought up north they caught up quickly. Cars in the north prior to galvanizing would be rotted out in 100k miles easily.
Neat, i’m glad we agree. Early 90’s is still very early in perspective to this audience. I’m driving a '92 and that’s 32 years old now. The cars from that decade last much longer than the 100k quoted above. Also, this is beyond 2.5X the average quoted in the OP article. Clearly, these are “old” cars. In sum, the 100k-till-rust-apart claim isn’t anchored in reality.
Except that only started on luxury brands. And the Japanese brands have struggled with it the most.
Hondas were still well known for rusting out too quickly into the early 2000s. They even had recalls on 2007-2011 CR-V.
Toyota in 2016 settled a class action suit for multiple models from 2004-2008. And that was on top of a different recall for rusting that spanned 1995-2003 models.
Nissans still tend to have the transmission blow up before the car can rust out. But did have their own rust issues.
Basically, Japan doesn’t use road salt. And their engineers had much less experience dealing with it. But the issue has persisted way longer than it should have taken them to solve for.
There’s a guy in my neighborhood who occasionally brings out a neon purple Geo Storm and it makes me smile Everytime I see it.
Hell yeah! I love the Geos. My exes dad had a Geo Metro and that was a trip to take on the highway. I heard the drivetrain was easily swappable with a Suzuki Samari for an all-wheel drive conversion too.
My dad had a Geo Metro & was a travel nurse. Had that thing loaded down with all of his stuff and drove it from Baltimore to Phoenix. That little 3 cylinder did work.
Back in the 90s, there was a lady who drove a Geo Metro around my town with a huge bumper sticker that said (paraphrasing) in all caps: MY GEO IS DOWN TO TWO CYLINDERS. BACK OFF.
I always enjoyed that lady.
I had a Geo Prism that got like 40mpg in the city and never broke down, a 5 speed manual, I loved it, so efficient, but the body was awful, the door handles fell off, window handles broke, the steering wheel fell off! Also it was this warm gray color that was the color of the road, the fog, the sky on a cloudy day, had a stealth quality, I could speed right by cops but got rear ended a few times.
But that engine, I wish I could have just transplanted it into my next car.
Then Chevy bought them & discontinued everything because who wants a budget vehicle that runs forever?
The newer cars aren’t any harder to work on for driving related functionality. Or, at least they’re not any harder than they were 20 years ago.
The electronics are a layer on top of a relatively legacy layer of “car”.
Requirements for a car. 1: All wheel drive 2: Small station wagon 3: Manual transmission 4: No touch screen 5: Does not connect to internet
Yup, looks like 2014 is the newest car I can buy.
Get your shit together car companies and maybe I’ll be interested in you products again.
The only newer feature I like is rear view cam. Its really a useful feature.
I do like those, but can add my own easy enough.
It’s* really
Volvo XC70
Always wanted a Volvo, my sister in law raced an V70 R for a while.
V70 R is a sleeper car. So fast!
Subaru outback is the goat of station wagons
Even if money is no object, in many ways 10-15 year old vehicles may be the sweet spot in terms of decent features without sacrificing privacy.
I don’t want a monolithic touchscreen (zero physical buttons) with apps, integration, cameras on me in the cabin, data collection and harvesting etc. For that reason I will stick with a decade plus old car.
I watched a video that basically points this out. People have already figured out how to make the most optimum vehicle about 10 years ago, hell probably before, but because we live in a capitalistic society, manufacturers have to keep “innovating” and raising prices and adding useless features that create more problems than convenience. Touchsreens in cars are a perfect example: 1 - At first they were used to display radio and connect to gps, but are now overglorofied phones that have basic car features buried behind menus and laggy screens 2 - Distracted driving was already a problem with texting and driving. So lets put a giant screen on the dash where you can watch Netflix (while I doubt you can while driving, the fact I still gotta look at a screen to turn my wipers on in a flash of rain is a major flaw) 3 - Its a new source of revanue, you’d be stupid NOT to put a screen in your car. All that juicy data, waiting to be collected and sold. If Watch_Dogs taught me anything, its that making our world smarter only makes us more vulnerable. 4 - We were able to get around WITHOUT a screen in our car. A phone mount, a bluetooth adapter, and a dashcam make my 2012 mini cooper feel like a 2025 modern smartcar. Sure it sucks that I had to buy the external upgrades, but I’ve still got modern conveniences like seat warmers, AC, cruise control, traction control. (The only feature I can give Tesla is Self-Driving mode, which is still in beta, so you’re more of a test subject and not a paying customer) 5 - (This is a personal rant) A screen looks fancy, until you realize its actually cheaper to call it a software problem, rather than manufacturing dedicated switches. Making it even harder to repair, since your mechanic now has to learn to code, alnogside manual labor if a part is broken.
The only benefit I see in buying the latest car is if you’re worried about the car being overworked. Aka its legit old and undrivable, but the way I see it, its cheaper to fix your old car over breaking your brand new cybertruck before its off the lot.
Oh, I actually remembered an innovation they have done, make the cars bigger. Because for some reason, people will keep paying 1000$ monthly payments as long as their pickup slowly becomes a monster truck
Nice to not read a BS headline reframing things along the lines of “stingy millennials refuse to support new cars because of DEI!”
We killed the napkins because of avocado toast!
Laughs in late 90s model Astro van and early 2000s Toyota Camry.
I have a coworker who did a frame off (yes, they had a partial frame) restoration of their astro van. Some of those astro van people are really into them.
I mean, they are cool as heck on the inside. I can see why they would be into them.
Didn’t they come with an awd v8 version?
AWD, yes. V8, not sure. I think they share some underpinnings with the s10, so even if they didn’t come out of factory with one it wouldn’t be a hard swap.
AWD, yes. V8 is an extensive mod.
Yeah bruh, i bought a Camry 11 years ago and a Sienna 7 years ago, i plan to drive them both for 20 years, minimum.
Feel the same way. My Camry is a 2013—recent enough to have a simple display and Bluetooth, but old enough to predate the ‘modern’ infotainment systems.
Believe me, I plan to drive this car until the scrapyards run out of part donors.
Seems about right. I rather continue keeping my current vehicle (2016) well maintained than to get a high interest loan with a overpriced price tag on a new OR used vehicle.
Seems right to me as well. I do buy new but always kept them until repairs cost more than the car is worth, generally 10-15 years in.
I’m sure someone willing to either do the repairs themselves or risk spending more, could keep my cars on the road even longer
