Prosecutors will seek the death penalty for the white supremacist who killed 10 Black people at a Buffalo supermarket.
The death penalty is a barbaric institution. It always has been, and it always will be. The government says it’s okay to murder this person, so let’s murder him.
I don’t get why that doesn’t shock people’s consciences and sense of basic decency.
I think it’s that guys like this one aren’t a hill anyone is eager to die on. Like, it’s bad, but let’s not make this guy the poster boy for ending the practice. There are other cases I’m much happier to cite in arguments opposing the death penalty.
Perhaps one of the many innocent folks on death row, which includes a not insignificant amount of African Americans too.
But this guy can fuck right off, I am not losing a second of sleep to his suffering.
I am never worried about guilty people on death row. I am worried about those that kill them, those that help kill them, those that witness the killing, and those who believe falsely that this form of justice will heal anyone from harms or prevent future harms.
You forgot to worry about those who are raised in a society where it’s okay to kill people for any reason other than preventing another person from being harmed.
Even a single innocent person getting murdered by the state makes the practice barbaric. The state is imperfect. It should not have a license to murder.
We’re all in agreement, but as OP said, this
particular person isn’t the time to make your stand on. We’ve all been vocally against the death penalty for a long time, but this specific person is not the one to make an especially strong “this is the line, no further” kind of stand for. I’m against him being killed like I’m against all cases of the government killing prisoners, but I’m also not doing any extra standing up for this particular person.So you only stand by your views as long as it’s convenient and easy?
I guess the right of attorneys is important but if the state violates his rights to that in this trial then you are not gonna have an issue with that either?
He is standing by his views. Just not going out of his way to defend this person. Let’s see you go to the courtroom and protest this particular guy’s death penalty if you are so dedicated.
If I lived there, I would. Not protesting this shows that you’re actually okay with the death penalty, and your typical admonishment of it doesn’t reflect your true beliefs.
who’s upvoting this coward bullshit?
People that understand strategy. Rosa Parks wasn’t the first person to be arrested for violating the seat law, but she was unimpeachable as a person and made an effective figurehead.
And I’m calling that coward bullshit. We can do better.
this particular person isn’t the time to make your stand on.
Those of us who are vehemently against the death penalty tend to be vocal about it every time it comes up, not just when it’s happening to awful people. It’s important to make it clear that even in cases like this, the death penalty should not be a thing, because otherwise we tacitly agree that sometimes, the death penalty is a good thing.
This particular person is absolutely the time to make our stand against the death penalty, because if we don’t, then we don’t stand against it at all.
Do you want judge Dredd instead?
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Wtf.
‘it’s not perfect so we can’t’ is absolutely not the ‘dumbest fucking’ argument if we are talking about actual human lives.
Something tells me you wouldn’t be espousing this “it’s fine for the state to murder innocent people from time to time” if it were you, your partner, or your child on death row.
What a disgustingly callous attitude.
The root of all of a state’s power is the right to employ violence. It is a barbaric practice but to be fair we are a barbaric species.
Some people should not be allowed to curse the earth with their existence.
I have a friend who went to protest outside the federal prison when Timothy McVeigh was executed. He had no love for McVeigh. He thought McVeigh was a monster. That wasn’t the point. The point was that capital punishment is always wrong. The state should not have the power of life and death over its citizenry.
And I have great respect for him for doing so. Protesting capital punishment in cases like this are just as important as in lesser cases because the reason for the punishment isn’t at issue.
I’ll be glad when death penalty is abolished. But we’ve still got time till then, and this guy live streaming himself doing the murders doesn’t leave much in the way of wiggle room for innocence.
Gonna be tragic when we learn it was secretly racist nano robots controlling his whole body by time traveling confederates.
I used to be against the death penalty. Read an article once about why it’s racist. Don’t remember them saying why it was racist but eventually they got to what the guy had done. He cut open a pregnant woman to steal her baby for his junkie girlfriend. I have been pro death penalty ever since.
You were manipulated to support the death penalty by a story you don’t even remember lol.
I remembet getting most of the way through and wondering if they were ever going to say why it’s racist but they really didn’t give any evidence for it. Then i wss horrified by the unthinkable crime.
I never understood why people believe we have some super special value when some of us are quite obviously a waste of space. Look up at the stars and how can you claim we have some special, meaningful place, above all the rest. We are nothing.You didn’t say you actually wanted evidence that the death penalty is racist, which makes me think you don’t, but here it is anyway-
https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-and-race/
What a childish thought process.
Sure, 1-5% of people executed by the state were either innocent or their guilt was under extreme doubt, but it’s worth it if it means killing violent people, right? I mean, I would gladly accept a wrongful death penalty if it means that someone who’s violent gets to be tortured to death with me
I used to be pro death penalty. The thing that convinced me was that it was so much more expensive to kill someone then jail them for life. Can you tell I grew up a good little republican? Of course the usual right-wing response is just take them out back and shoot them and while I might’ve given that some lip service, I knew then justice was imperfect. Appeals and last minute clemency were getting people off of death row all the time (or at least it seemed so).
Eventually I came to learn of people who’d been executed (no clemency, no appeal, no last minute heroics) and there was no solid evidence a crime had even been committed much less that they were guilty. And the math doesn’t lie that it’s extremely racist, and if racial bias exists then clearly justice isn’t being served. I’m firmly against the death penalty for moral reasons now, but we all have our journey, right?
Probably because our morals and principles collapse at the first speed bump.
Too busy getting our consciousnesses shocked by mass killings at supermarkets, I guess. By the way, nice work blinding that cyclops.
The government says it’s okay to murder this person, so let’s murder him.
By that “logic”, states also shouldn’t be allowed to imprison people.
One you can reverse, mate, you know that.
Woah, now we’re moving goalposts.
I thought the argument was, “the state says it’s not okay to do this, and then they go and do it.”
You thought wrong.
Imprisonment is theoretically less permanent than execution.
But people definitely shouldn’t be profiting from imprisonment, and the conditions should be humane.
So what’s the point of the rhetorical argument: “the state says it’s not okay to do this, and then they go and do it”?
Oh, please don’t misunderstand. I think the death penalty is barbaric. That wasn’t my argument at all.
But people definitely shouldn’t be profiting from imprisonment, and the conditions should be humane.
I have a friend who is a plumber and most of his work is from jails.
It may be barbaric, and considering how many innocents have been railroaded into it via abuse or neglect of justice, ethically untenable on the face of it.
That said, I feel there are certain people who’s actions are so horrific and ideologies so dangerous that should not be allowed to harm society again, and that includes having to pay for their upkeep.
There are many worthy of execution that have been released to kill again.
In our imperfect world it is not right to levy a judgment that cannot be reversed.
If we magically had perfect knowledge of guilt and innocence, I would have zero issue with the death penalty being applied.
Since that world does not, and cannot exist, I will accept life imprisonment, grudgingly. Some people simply cannot or will not be rehabilitated.
I don’t want to pay a dime to keep that fucker alive. Just let the families kill him slowly.
The death penalty is significantly more expensive then life imprisonment is.
I’ve never understood this. Why is that?
As far as I know it’s mostly because of the appeals process and because of the drugs they use. Nobody wants to make them anymore.
It’s extremely hard to get the drugs and to find a medical professional willing to administer them. Most drug companies specifically won’t sell to governments for this purpose. Most medical certification boards revoke licenses for engaging in this sort of thing.
If we can’t abolish the death penalty I’d prefer the prosecutors and judge be the firing squad. Make it real obvious that this is a violent destructive act they’re taking from start to finish.
You know how much lawyers make in endless appeals? Who do you think pays for the state side of things?
As long as it’s life in solitary confinement, I’m fine.
“Torture is okay, but I draw the line at killing.” Proud of you, man.
You’re implying that human beings have intrinsic worth. They don’t. Human life has no value, and humans are trash. They’re all garbage. Barbaric? You’re talking about slavers, murderers, rapists. Humans are inherently flawed and earth would be better off without them.
Watch out for all that edge, you might cut yourself on it
Humans are inherently flawed and earth would be better off without them.
Cool. So why are you still here talking to us? Or are you the one exception?
Which Church are you a part of? This’s some miiiighty sweet gospel right hea’
The gospel according to edgy teenager
So the evangelicals?
“You’re talking about slavers, murderers, rapists.”
So are you one, two, or all three of those things?
Fuck the death penalty, the guy needs to be punished, but the death penalty is barbaric.
I don’t disagree, but also I think the death penalty is too merciful. This guy should live forever, watching the world go by without him or his ignorance. He should be forced to watch home movies and social media from the families of the people he killed. Watch them mourn, and how they find hope and love in a world where he also exists.
He should live long enough to learn that his life is meaningless, his actions, while extremely harmful, will be forgotten to history as just another violent, murderous bigot. He should realize that from inside a 10x10 room, and then he should live another 50 years with that knowledge.
The state shouldn’t kill people at all. It isn’t a deterrent, it doesn’t cost less money, it doesn’t increase justice, and sometimes we get it wrong. There isn’t a good reason for the death penalty to exist, and plenty of reasons it shouldn’t.
He should be forced to watch home movies and social media from the families of the people he killed. Watch them mourn
Please, that would make that racist prick feel pride, not shame.
Not just barbaric, but also more expensive than life in prison. There’s also all of those cases where an innocent person is killed.
Except for pedophiles!
And Gypsies!
…what
It’s making fun of people who think the death penalty shouldn’t exist except for…
Either you think we should have it or we shouldn’t. Allowing it means it can be used against so-called undesirables.
If you kill the man, his suffering is limited. If you lock him away in a supermax for the rest of his long days, his suffering is a thousandfold.
Why is there any value in making someone suffer for the sake of suffering?
If he’s dead he’s dead. There are plenty of evil people that are dead and I don’t wish them to be alive just so they can suffer.
That’s seems worse than killing them.
I say chain him to a radiator in the back of a Black History class and put a gag in his mouth.
Sure, but there’s also cost to the state to be considered.
That said, the common methods for execution used today are surprisingly expensive.
Isn’t it more expensive to execute someone vs a life sentence?
We should do another penal colony. Like Venus or something.
On a tangential note: I propose we ship the top 1% wealthiest people to Mars and make them colonize it.
We can send all the life sentence and death row convicts with them.
Riddick looks smug with his weird sunglasses.
Also experimental. No one wants to make the drugs used to end life so states are buying expired product and shady drugs from Indian compound pharmacies.
Those shady indian pharmacies are one of the things keeping american pharmaceuticals from skull fucking the plebs every chance it gets. Those boys are fine in my book. That countries approach to pharmaceuticals is commendable overall.
Except they have no quality control and you have no idea what you could actually be getting.
Really? That’s not what I’ve seen so far. As long as you stick to the major players or atleast stay away from the more easy handed brands, there’s no issues with quality control I think.
That said, the common methods for execution used today are surprisingly expensive.
It doesn’t have to be.
I believe the saw movies had some good techniques
Just make sure to place him in a cell near/with black prisoners and give him a sandwich board like one from die hard 3 with “I hate n*****” on it too.b
Death penalty bad, mop justice good
Mop justice, that’s how Jeffrey Dahmer died isn’t it?
A) I’m certain he’ll advertise it all on his own. Probably fall right in with a Nazi prison gang.
B) I don’t think the prisons are intentionally stoking racial tensions. Makes things dangerous for the guards and invites attention they don’t want.
The suffering should never be the point. It never gives meaningful satisfaction to the bereaved and affected and studies support this.
It is only human and normal to burn with anger and a desire to see monsters such as this torn apart and made to suffer.
This is part of our animal mind that views tribal justice and the dubious ‘wisdom of the crowds’ as absolute, and most of the fuckdamn reason we’ve spent so long learning how to live around millions of each other is in part giving up these outdated and unhelpful social traits.
In the long run, from the cultural perspective, no amount of his suffering will bring his victims back, and no amount of suffering will convince him that he was morally wrong.
So execute him, and quickly, and spend the money otherwise that would have covered his upkeep on free food for single parents.
You were so close! The first four paragraphs were a perfect argument against the death penalty. And then you somehow turned around to argue for it in the last one?
The logical conclusion from your argument isn’t a quick death, it’s trying to reform offenders, no matter how heinous their crimes. If that’s not possible, keep them locked away, but treat them humanely and keep trying.
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Dammit, you were so close. Quick executions are how you turn the 1-5% innocent kill rate up to a 10-50%.
I don’t even kill spiders. It’s hard to look at that photo and understand, how this young adult even considered doing this. What broke him like that? Maybe, instead of killing him, we can somehow guarantee no new guys like him would happen. Not in a genetic crime bullshit fashion, but in providing psychological services, making regular checks, noticing them and reaching out before they act like that? He’s a fucking idiot, but also a guy that fell through many safety nets proving them ineffective.
That’s not how the prison industry works. There’s no money in fixing people if you can use them as unpaid labour.
“prison industry” - I like that
There are actually privately owned prisons, with investors, and profit incentives, and they’re a problem.
And they literally do forced labor for corporations, who pay the prison for that, which is legal because slavery is still legal in prisons. It’s absolutely an industry.
I know in the early 2000s both McDonalds and Applebee’s were known to have used prison labor to have their uniforms made.
I seen some doc about some ultra tough texan prison guy. He was all “We need to punish people and my prison the best because we break our prisoners and make them behave perfectly and control everything they can do so they do no wrong. Then finally after decades of doing that we release then into the public all fixed”
So the doc was about him going to Norway where they live on this island and have a room and “freedom” to wander around. They just have to be at certain places at certain times and can’t do lots of stuff. He gets on the ferry and the guy running the ferry is a prisoner in a paid job. He tells him he tried to get that job because that’s the easiest way to escape. But then he laughed and told him he was joking.
The whole time this texan is just confused that a prison like that has better rehabilitation and lower repeated criminals than his prison
I write about what can be done before the bloodshed and the prison sentence. But yeah, the next logical step is to look into these fuckers too.
People who feel like they have nothing to live for often take their frustration out on others.
It’s like they know their lives suck and likely won’t get better, so they focus on making other people’s lives worse because it’s literally all they feel they can do.
I don’t think people realize how true this is. People like this are a symptom of society failing them, not them failing society.
It is these people that need love and compassion the most. Preferably before they go crazy.
Maybe, instead of killing him, we can somehow guarantee no new guys like him would happen.
How are those mutually exclusive? Do you think killing him will make him respawn somewhere?
What’s that thing you gamers do where you hang around the respawn area and kill people as they come back?
Spawncamping, not sure how that’d work here though.
Shoot his mom in the vagina?
The only issue with the death penalty is the potential to execute the innocent. There is no danger of that here. I don’t want to share the planet with this racist prick.
That’s not “the only issue,” you fucking ghoul. It’s a barbaric practice and has no place in a civilized society.
I don’t think it’s barbaric at all. Hell, if anything, making people care for this asshole for 50+ years is barbaric. There is no rehabilitation for this guy. There is no way he becomes a productive member of society.
If even long-term KKK members can be rehabilitated then so can this kid whose brain hasn’t even fully developed.
So what, you think you can just let a mass murderer walk the streets again because he convinced someone he’s rehabilitated?
Even those long term KKK members didn’t kill people.
What about the families of these 10 victims? They deserve justice more than this kid deserves freedom. I’m not saying he can’t be rehabilitated. I am saying that it is very injust to let this kid to ever have a free life after he ended the lives of 10 people.
What makes you think the families will all agree with you that this is what the killer deserves?
I mean I’m not 100 percent that all of them would want it, but it’s what the families want in the majority of these cases. Anytime you see a murderer come up for appeal you usually see family or friends of the victim in interviews saying how they don’t want that to happen.
How often do you actually see what victims’ families say when murderers are put on parole? For me it’s occasionally when the news reports on it. I don’t think we can say what the majority want.
The other issue is that it quite frequently costs exponentially more to administer the death penalty due to years of appeals. I’m not sure how that would work in this case, since as you said, it’s apparent that the defendant is guilty.
His appeals will be focused on procedure, rather than facts. Pretty much the go-to defense strategy when a suspect is caught red handed. If you can’t argue the facts of the case, try to get the facts thrown out on technicality (like maybe the police mishandled evidence so it’s not admissible anymore,) or try to minimize the person’s crime as much as possible. Try to get the sentence reduced, try to downplay the convict’s actions, emphasize how much they have changed, etc…
Basically just damage control. Accept that you aren’t going to come out of it unscathed, so just work to mitigate the damage instead of trying to avoid it altogether.
I mean, given the choice of paying for him to have 3 squares and a place to sleep, I’d rather pay a little more to be rid of him.
Which is why you execute them immediately, not 20-30 years later. I don’t want to hear about innocent people in jail that long, I don’t even want to hear about guilty people in jail very long. Just kill em and move on regardless, it’s really less cruel.
Let him rot in prison. Abolish capital punishment!
It’s a worse punishment to let him rot in prison.
Out of pure academic curiosity, how is the death penalty part of this under federal jurisdiction?
The article refers to federal hate crimes.
There are federal crimes that include hate crimes and violation of civil rights, but from what I can tell in the list of federal capital crimes, neither of those appears to me to qualify as subject to the death penalty.
I looked up Derek Chauvin as a base then realized he was never under threat of death penalty.
I don’t like the death penalty and how inequally it’s applied, but in this case I say we decrease the surplus population.
Rest in piss, asshole.
Just kill the useless and dangerous folk and it’ll work out in the benefit of society.
Who will be deemed useless and dangerous?
Who will have this power to judge?
Will they be responsible, or corruptible?Exactly. I said that to make the death penalty look bad, which it is.
What alternative do you have for people actively detrimental to societies such as serial killers and child rapists?
Reform, and if they continue to pose a risk for society keep them in a prison/psychiatric ward until they die or are reformed.
Look at how Norway handles Breivik for example. That guy is a proper monster. But he still gets treated according to human rights, cause he is still human. We as a society should be better and more rational than the monsters that we condemn.
There’s this thing we have called ‘prison.’
You know that life in prison means they usually don’t go out to kill and rape again, right?
You know that most rapists never actually see a day in court, let alone are jailed, and rape actually does not net people life sentences, only a few years at most, right?
But who needs facts or to take anyone else’s feelings into consideration when your personal feelings are so much more important than the rest of the planet’s and the women you subjugate with your shit?
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I didn’t say that rape gets you life in prison, I said that life in prison means you don’t get to rape and murder anymore
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It is a travesty that those rapists who do get caught only serve a few years, but the death penalty is proven ineffective at reducing crime rates. Nobody would be helped by executing rapists instead of just imprisoning them for life
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That most rapists never see a day in court means that the death penalty wouldn’t help anyway
Instead of killing up to five innocent people per hundred executed, how about we just… Lock them up? Then if it comes out later that they actually didn’t set that fire that killed their family, they can be released from prison instead of the state just pretending they didn’t end someone’s life for no reason
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It’s pretty easy to not-murder. I’ve been doing it my whole life. Even went vegan!
Me. I see no problem with this. All of me in favor, say aye. Aye. The ayes have it, motion passed.
Will you still have no problem with this if you’re deemed useless?
Let me check. Do I deem myself useless. No. Looks like we’re good to go.
The only danger that creeps in here is ‘who gets to decide who is useless and dangerous?’ because I wear glasses and don’t feel like being on the receiving end of a Khmer Rouge style microcide.
Good for you, it’s not glasses this month, it’s the hearing aids that indicate “useless” status and crutches for dangerous because you can use them as weapons.
Should we tackle the mentally inferior and physically infirm next?
Get your background here:
How old are you?
One death penalty still has a lot of wiggle room given there were ten lives taken. Hope justice is served here.
It’s not good to report the number of deaths in headlines without humanizing the victims in some way. It’s better to list each individual name in the article itself.
This dude probably thought he was setting a number score that would put him in the spotlight, but he didn’t realize he’s just another tally for the Executioner.
What is a justified consequence for someone that killed people just going about their normal lives? Do the families impacted by this tragedy have any input?
No civilised society executes it’s citizens. A lifetime of reflection is adequate.
There are some people so dangerous that the risk of their return to society needs to be prevented at all costs.
Yes our court systems are imperfect, yes innocents have been sentence to death and executed.
Even with all that taken into consideration there are some people that simply need to be put down and when the evidence is so overwelmingly against them, I have no issues with this being how society keeps itself safe.
The problem is we have no way of guaranteeing an unbiased and thorough justice system, in fact its almost a guarantee to be the opposite of fair and unbiased in so may situations.
Yes there is. You make the process reversible, people then aren’t condemned to death if there is an error.
The level of conformist doublethink here is insane.
