believes in the vision of a Jewish and democratic Israel.https://www.bradlanderforcongress.com/issues
He’s a two state supremacist trying to have it both ways. Call Israel’s action a genocide and wrong, but back a Jewish supremacist state.
DSA people apparently falling for magic phrase without the nuance.
At least he spells it out if you are looking for it. Which I admit is more than most which leave the issue
Jewish and democratic
translation: apartheid
Imagine saying this about literally any other racial/ethnic/religious group and trying to pretend it’s not fascist.
Arguably “religious group” might not work as well to make your point as the others. Christians have done apartheid states, genocide, etc for nearly two millenia now. It’s not for nothing that socialists have repeatedly enacted anti-clerical reforms, or outright banned the practice of organized religion.
Oh I got a fun one: when they point to Israel and say “why don’t we get a white ethnostate?”
How about nobody gets an ethnostate! Because it’s a dogshit idea that always leads to this shit! It’s poison!
We need to build a white and democratic nation!
Thank you for posting something that answers the fundamental question of the twitter exchange.
You know that tiktok of some Italian guy clutching pearls over a Chicago style pizza with someone cutting in after every criticism saying ‘it’s a Chicago style pizza’?
That but with arguments in favor of a two state solution or accusations of antisemitism and ‘there’s an ongoing genocide’
Who are these people and what do they have to do with DSA?
I know a group of DSA organizers who were trying to put out a “two socialist states” third campist position, and defending it pretty vigorously, and they got absolutely massacred on every front. They lost every internal debate, and got pushed out of the caucus they founded. To be honest I understand their position and don’t think it was coming from a place of defending Israel or Zionism or whatever, they’re good organizers who do really good organizing work, and were instrumental in my own political development. And DSA is def not a totality, politics in NYC for example are much different than like Portland or South East Kansas.
I’ve just seen people try to take a misguided moderate approach toward Israel get politically destroyed on all fronts in DSA, and I think its not accurate to consider individual views on par with left sects and coalitions with a great deal of institutional influence like Red Star, MUG, or Springs of Revolution.
The left sectors of the DSA are the cuck sectors.
This is a deeply unserious thing to say.
dsa national is absolutely a liberal opportunist org. whether you have a decent local dsa or not, the national group is there to shepherd potential communists back to the useless kind of action. and for that matter, so is dsa new york, whose greatest achievement has been getting another zionist mayor leading the third biggest military in the world
Factions of the org also do based shit like sending aid to Cuba. The Bolsheviks were born out of a group that was basically Russian DSA so idk why one of the more militant factions could grow and supersede the opportunists. I’m just against encouraging people to get involved cuz if anything what we need to make the organization less lib is more non-libs joining.
maybe. there are better organizations to do entryism under, at least at the federal level. obviously if your local dsa is doing good work feel free to help them out. but on the national level you won’t get anywhere playing by the dsa’s rules. that’s by design. still, there are also worse orgs to do entryism under, i guess. you’re right that sometimes the dsa does cool things.
In what way? Are you saying that the left of DSA has gone liquidationist into a fundamentally reformist org? Like given up their left principles in order to participate in a project that could only amount to betrayal of the working class?
If so I’d challenge you to be more concrete, so we can have an actual discussion. I’d also wager that the average member of SoR would humiliate you in practical experience in liberation struggles. I think there’s grounds to criticize them, but that’s not what you’re doing. You sound like a Bad Empanada cut out talking shit about people who have been in Israeli and American prisons, or had their first experiences organizing in the Arab Spring. I don’t know you, but the cuck claim really comes off as a self report.
By all means criticize DSA, nobody criticizes DSA more than DSA members. But criticize based on what it is, not what gets “based” reacts in discord servers full of ultraleft furniture salespeople.
The left caucuses keep participating in an org whose politics is dominated by the dem party entryists that are its largest member groups. They could be using the time and energy they waste in DSA can be used in an actual Socialist org or party. The left caucuses of the DSA destined to be cucked by the bourgeois electoralist caucuses like SMC.
This is demonstrably false. There is currently a left wing majority on the National political committee, and many major committees that make up the national org. The 2025 convention saw absolutely abhorrent and bad faith behavior from SMC specifically, which damaged them politically so much that the other right-moderate caucus, Groundwork, broke with them and drifted closer to (Marxist caucus) Bread and Roses which at the time was, and still is, the dead center of DSA in practically very way. On the other hand, the left was united in purpose and expanded the already left NPC with more left members. I’ll admit, this dynamic exists in some places, NYC for example, but the left is still highly active and gaining strength and momentum.
Meanwhile the right of DSA basically has nothing but dirty tricks. The more the left grows, the more the right exposes themselves as unprincipled opportunists. The defeat of the One member, one vote resolution, which would empower them to whip inactive members to pass their own agenda was close but ultimately defeated by the united Left of the org which values direct participation over liquidating of democratic processes into whoever has the most resources to bend the org to its will. And the majority of membership sides with the left in preserving the active base of DSA.
The left has only gained ground in DSA. What is far more likely is that the reformist elements will try to break from the org to go over to the progressive wing of the Democratic party. The right has many good activists and organizers so I don’t want to slander too much, but at the end of the day they still need to warp reality and play political games in order to hold onto power. In NYC, its different but OTOH, NYC has gained incredible electoral ground that has garnered lots of new membership for the national org. In most chapters, those new members are getting their political education from leftists. Even the NYC chapter is like 5 branches, each larger than most chapters, and each one with a distinct character.
If the left loses to the right in '27, it wouldn’t surprise me since the new members coming in are from the broader, somewhat affluent layers of the working class, which is probably the biggest weakness of the org. But practically, nobody joins DSA and becomes more right wing. Don’t underestimate how easy it is to engage new members in a discussion about “moving the Democrats left,” and without being dogmatic and just letting members talk through the possibility of it, watch their minds change in a more radical direction. I’ve personally helped lead discussions like this in a pretty conservative area and watched minds changed organically with very little input.
I think one of the best arguments we could make against DSA, is that while it occupies the left of the working class unpopular consciousness, it is in practice often to the right of even the moderate-left of the working class. But this too can be remedied with just good old fashioned ground game. The work of building coalitions in a city can discipline the reformist elements, especially when a chapter or branch votes, for example, to accept a compromise deal from local establishment democrats, just to have the rest of the coalition – made up of moderate union members and even fucking Indivisible – vote down the compromise deal and stay with the principled direction for the campaign.
The left of DSA is facing the actual contradictions in the system and winning within the org. Maybe that changes, I’ve def seen the signs and heard solid arguments for why a split is inevitable. But so far, I really haven’t seen evidence of it, especially where the left is active and working together. When I read comments like yours, its like you don’t even believe in the power of Marxism, like its some ideas that get defeated by power. But Marxism has the truth on our side, and the right can only win through dirty tricks. The left at DSA has gotten quite good at thwarting the infiltrators, opportunists and reformists, though obvs there is still ground for criticism and development.
When I read comments like yours, its like you don’t even believe in the power of Marxism, like its some ideas that get defeated by power. But Marxism has the truth on our side, and the right can only win through dirty tricks.
The online-left has quite a few armchair MLs who clearly have no on the ground political praxis whatsoever. If you present yourself as a leader in any part of your social bubble right now, it is actually quite easy to get people on your side, sometimes they just do it on their own, just like you brought up in your post.
The US left has so much momentum right now, but instead of using a Marxist based analysis to discuss what the move should be to effectively direct that momentum, some seem to want the left to lose until they decide to do it “the right way”. This is overly dogmatic, a lot of materialist analysis has to do with “working with what you got”! We know that the imperial core is naturally a limiting environment when it comes to revolutionary potential.
How are you communicating with the working class around you? They arent going to read theory, so it is on people like us to walk them through it. I would imagine that you are starting that conversation with Mamdani before you get to Lenin, but maybe that’s just me.
Def good points. I try to remind myself that sectarianism is actually a structural consequence of divisions of labor under capitalism rather than this or that member of the class having bad ideas. Confusion and idealism are forced upon us by a ruling class that wants to dominate not just our time and labor, but our minds and our spirit. As a class they are structurally incapable of sharing power. Some people I think have had heinous experiences, and I’ve def seen those people being told that they are “too radical” or whatever by leaders of other orgs outside of DSA. I’ve been able to recruit those people on many occasions to more radical political work! But I’m sure to the people who I also call ultraleft, mostly because of their refusal to work within a workers movement not because of any position, buy I’m sure I just seem like one of those people too.
But because sectarianism is structural, then there is ultraleft opportunism, which I’m especially worried that a lot of people fall for while they’re just trying to be on the right side.
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DSA forbid Demcent, but the left has gotten that rule rescinded as part of a larger effort to build DSA into an actual socialist party. It is an encouraging development if one practices a principled theory of change. But admittedly there is a long way to go toward actual discipline within the org.
Also the Bolsheviks had sects too, some had to be dealt with and others worked the self out over the course of active political struggle. It takes time to build durable organization, and its particularly frustrating as time seems to be running out. But demcent isn’t an ideal, it is a dynamic strategy that ensures the actual leaders of a section of the org are actually elected with broad support rather than creating informal power structures which drive political divisions. The factionalism in DSA I believe is just a stage necessary to move from the sect that it was toward the revolutionary party it will need to become.
The fact is, sectarianism is a structural condition imposed on us by our conditions. DSA is breaking down those divisions, not sustaining them. Idk how else it would possibly go down trying to organize extremely idealist, confused class on a mass level without having to organically working through that confusion, via struggle. You can slap a demcent label on an org, but that doesn’t make it part of the workers movement. You know, there is another definition of sectarian that doesn’t mean “full of sects” but rather a sect that stands separated from the mass movement. Revolution def isn’t a popularity contest, but ideas only prove themselves in practice.
Fellas is it antisemitic to call a zionist a zionist?
Pikerites say yes. The same Pikerites who believe zionists shouldn’t even be allowed to be the local dog-catcher btw.
Tit for that mutual endorsement with Mamdani. That’s it. The Mamdani endorsement undermined an antizionist candidate as well.
It’s a problem and they need to be purged. NYC DSA is an especially strong fiefdom of problematic politics.
If you call Brad Lander a Zionist you maaaaaaay be anti-Semitic.
Brad Lander: “I am a proud Zionist”
yeah and that makes him an anti-semite
He didn’t do the Elizabeth Warren thing to Mamdani and became an ally in the mayoral election instead, so he was rewarded with DSA support for his congressional run.
DSA looks like an opportunist org to me.
This is electoralism. It is opportunist by its nature.
This is literally the first I’ve heard of this guy
It’s the same deal with Platner, all a politician has to do is make some overtures to the left, a little universal healthcare, a bit of card check, and they’ll fawn over them and lash out at any reasonable criticism of them. They’re so desperate to be appeased to and given sone attention that that they lose all discretion.
I know you aren’t necessarily saying this but I think it bares repeating: Platner was never directly affiliated with the DSA, and the Maine DSA never officially endorsed him, though they did initially advise their members to vote for him. He got support from some Internet figures associated with the DSA but I don’t think the group ever provided him with direct support.
Yeah I meant the broader progressives that get flattered easily, not DSA specifically.
–Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf in the chapter about fighting communists.
Fascists are still using the same tactics a century later and a century later socialists are still falling for it.
for the same reason they are in love with mamdani and were in love with platner before that became untenable
they have the political instincts of a dead wasp
Have we decided Mamdani is bad now?
neither lemmygrad nor hexbear have a “party line”, but he’s far too tolerant of zionism for my tastes along with being a fairly standard social democrat
We? Do you need other people to tell you what your opinion should be?
I think Mamdani is the best NYC has had for a while. I also think he’s never going to go against Zionism because that’s career suicide.
The outcome of this realisation? The US needs to first collapse for Israel to be eradicated. So best I can do is keep adding to the polarisation of the US and hope they implode and balkanize at some point
The US needs to first collapse for Israel to be eradicated.
i don’t think that’s true, the US could replace them with saudi arabia. There’s the christians who want israel to be destroyed to kick off the rapture, and there’s also a genuine isolationist faction in the republican party. With everybody mad about datacenters and everything prices you’re a ron paul type away from cutting israel off and that could hit at a sort of constructive interference where internal contradictions and external pressure from iran plus no more material assistance would fall.
If the zionist entity collapsed first it would take the US down with it and the US knows it and would use nukes to prevent whatever party is trying to take down the zionist entity from succeeding. For one the zionists might nuke or dirty bomb the US in revenge either directly or via selling such weapons to a pawn like ISIS that they turn on the US. For second even if they don’t their intelligence officials have infiltrated every level of tech at all major companies and information security in the west and implanted backdoors which they will use to bring down all water, power, information systems and destroy the economy of the west in retribution via their tech Samson option and the west knows this but cannot do a thing about it.
Saudi Arabia is also not full of bloodthirsty white supremacist fascists like the zionist entity. It’s a bad replacement because it’s population doesn’t see itself as white, isn’t democratically represented by the princes (democratically the Jewish population of the zionist entity fully supports the genocide, apartheid, and colonial expansion against Arabs by contrast). And Saudi Arabia doesn’t guilt Europe into supporting it on the basis of some past atrocity or history of racism.
Saudi Arabia is also not full of bloodthirsty white supremacist fascists like the zionist entity. It’s a bad replacement because it’s population doesn’t see itself as white, isn’t democratically represented by the princes (democratically the Jewish population of the zionist entity fully supports the genocide, apartheid, and colonial expansion against Arabs by contrast). And Saudi Arabia doesn’t guilt Europe into supporting it on the basis of some past atrocity or history of racism.
i don’t think the genocidal settler colony part of things is necessary for the geopolitical purpose israel serves the greater empire. I don’t even think the expansionism and hot genocide is necessary for the settler colony part if they weren’t in a hurry, but all the nazis here and over there are in it for the love of the game
Okay fine, he’s a zionist sympathizer, is that better?
He is a self-proclaimed, proud zionist though.
I’m not trying to defend him, I’m trying to further comparison between zionism and nazism
Because their cult leader Mamdani endorses him.
