I am completly opposed to Air-conditions propagandized as a solution to climate change. What is the wright approach to combating this state of temporary relief except from old-fashioned fans? Don’t get me wrong. They do the job for me. I am reffering to finding a solution for people more with health issues or large facilities that are in need of something more drastic.

  • cmbabul@slrpnk.net
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    4 months ago

    If you can come up with an alternative way to cool the air indoors that’s less energy demanding and environmentally friendly that could be a revolutionary invention on a global scale

    Not gonna debate A/Cs merits as a fix for climate change but the ability to chill and cool a place at will is one of the overall more important human innovations ever. Food storage and preservation as well as tons of medical/scientific research and development is dependent on refrigeration.

    It’s also really gonna depend on where you live in the world to be able to rely on standard fans, which still rely on electricity and if the humidity gets too high for your sweat to evaporate may not even cool you down properly enough to prevent wet bulb heat deaths. Bangladesh for example will cook in the coming years without something to break the heat and muggy air.

    • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      Or modifying what you have already.

      Take a south or west facing window with a balcony & railing in front. By installing planter boxes on the railings and growing black eyed susans / morning glory / any climbing flowers, letting them grow up bamboo poles space 4" apart, you can create a heat absorbing barrier. The plants block and use the energy that would have been absorbed by your house. Unlike shades/screens they won’t heat up and begin radiating heat themselves.

      Female Hops are another great planting option. They cannot reproduce without a male plant, and every year they will grow back stronger. Train them underneath your building eaves and they will reduce the amount of heat energy your house absorbs while producing aesthetically pleasing “cone” flowers.

      …

      Also insulation. In Canada we need lots of insulation under our roofs for the winter. So while during the summer our black top roofs absorb a lot of heat, not as much of that heat is transferred to the indoor air as a roof with less insulation.

      • David_Eight@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Its important to mention that this does require some maintenance and to be sure that the outside of the building is structurally sound (ie. gaps, rotted wood, crumbling morter,etc.)

        • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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          4 months ago

          building is structurally sound

          Especially if you go with permanent plants. Like I suggest against Virginia Creeper cuz it will obscure any developing issues.

      • solo@slrpnk.net
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        4 months ago

        I second that! I am not too sure about hops tbh, in the sense that they don’t seem to thrive/survive where I live, but the idea of using vegetation is helping greatly to cool the microclimate. The downside is that you will need at least a balcony, the bigger it is, the more vegetation you can have, and the more you have, the cooler it will be. If you have a garden, it’s a whole other level, in the best possible way.

        This approach is also great because you can plant eatibles, and have your own veggies and fruits.

        • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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          4 months ago

          Hops need LOTS of dirt for roots, water, and something to climb. I live in Zone 6a but our summers peak at 35°C so they might be more viable than you think.

          If you do them in raised bed you 100% cannot have a sealed bottom.

    • Anivia@feddit.org
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      4 months ago

      There is only so much you can do to achieve that. If temperatures are in the upper 30s for an entire week. You can’t keep the heat out forever

  • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
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    4 months ago

    Most solutions require engineering the building for little to no use of AC and relying on better ventilation.

    One example that can be applied to a house is a central shaft with a fan on the bottom, which will pull in air closer to the ground and blow it upwards - remember, cold air tends to stay down while hot air tends to go upwards. The house will need to have a small elevation, or the central shaft will need some ducts for the air to come in.

    There’s also the Persian Windcatchers, which they have used for centuries, towers that receive hot air from one side, bring it down to an underground channel and blow off cold air from another side.

      • nocturne@slrpnk.net
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        4 months ago

        Green as in the color? Or green as in environmentally conscious?

        I am having to replace my black shingle roof very soon and planned to do a white one.

            • livligkinkajou@slrpnk.net
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              4 months ago

              I’ve seen green roofs on bus stops and favelas in Rio, Brazil, where their roofs have terrible infrastructure. From what I understood, they basically partnered with a local university to try to reduce the heat island effect in favelas, as most of them had no greenery at all

              They came up with a cheap solution involving a plastic liner, similar (perhaps the same) to those used in ponds; a geotextile layer of bidim, which is a lightweight material; and plants that don’t need soil to grow, like those found growing on rocks or trunk of trees. Which means it is super light and still provide the same benefits as a green roof with soil in it

        • XeroxCool@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          You might want to look at metal roofing. White helps and makes sense from a visual standpoint where the base material can only be dyed/painted and not changed, but even painted metal reflects infrared better, which is where the heating energy really exists.

      • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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        4 months ago

        Those roofs are for architectural projects or custom homes for Hollywood celebrities. Nightmare in costs and they don’t last.

        • poVoq@slrpnk.netM
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          4 months ago

          Look up succulent roofs sometimes and you might change your preconceived and mostly false opinion about green roofs 🤷

          Those are cheap, low maintenance and last forever.

  • bobtimus_prime@feddit.org
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    4 months ago

    I think they are a viable solution, as long the energy comes from renewable energies. Where I live, the time you need cooling, ist also the time when energy prices almost go negative. If wind turbines are switched off, because the energy cannot be consumed, I think using them for moderate cooling is ok.

  • cecilkorik@lemmy.ca
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    4 months ago

    I’ll answer your question first, but I have some issues with the framing you’re using around that question. The two other main methods of practical temperature management available to us are evaporative cooling and geothermal. Your body has a built-in evaporative cooling mechanism called sweat. Fans take advantage of this. But not everyone has equally effective bodies for this, not all climates are particularly effective for it (high humidity makes it extremely ineffective) and not everyone finds it comfortable for their situation. Swamp coolers are a different form of evaporative cooling that move the evaporation process onto a substrate which then cools things down with a fan. You can also find natural evaporative cooling working for you in many places, for example around large bodies of water. There is an externalized cost here if you’re trying to make evaporative cooling work in an environment that’s unsuitable for it, and the cost of fresh water is a significant line item on the energy budget too. Don’t neglect that by assuming evaporative cooling is a clear win that is automatically preferable to an air conditioner. All these evaporative solutions share the reality that they’re going to add (often very significant amounts of) humidity to the air. Air conditioning on the other hand can actually remove humidity from the air, and is one of the few practical methods of doing that. It’s solving the issue in a different way, but it’s a significant and important difference.

    The other option is geothermal. This is genuinely underutilized today and I think we can certainly save a lot of energy budget by accessing stable and susprisingly comfortable temperatures underground basically year-round. Geothermal heat pumps (which use air conditioning technology) are by far the most practical way of doing this in our current situation, but older solutions involving buildings that are deeper in the ground or that have airflow going through the ground can provide access to this temperature too – with the caveat that you’ll often run into problems with water, flooding, or condensation/mold unless you’re in a particular sort of environment where this is not a concern.

    As for the framing: You have to look at it systemically I think. We do a lot of things that seem dumb on the surface, and sometimes they are dumb, but more often they are making tradeoffs for particular reasons and a lot of times those turn out to be the right tradeoffs, there’s just a lot of complexity to the system that you’re glossing over. You can certainly argue those reasons, and try a different path, as long as you understand them first. Some of the reasons might be invalid or the tradeoff might not be the right trade, but I don’t see the benefit in making blanket value judgements without understanding what they are and why they’re happening. But I think you’ll find it more challenging than it seems to come up with a better solution in the long run.

    What is your specific objection to air conditioners? Temperature is a huge line item on any energy budget, and it has to be managed somehow. There are few places on the planet where humans can live year-round without some form of temperature management, and quite often that requires energy. Firewood is not always a given and not perfectly sustainable at least the way we use it. An air conditioner is not propaganda it is a tool, and you have to figure out if it’s the right tool for the job but that’s never going to be a binary true/false. I think saying you’re “completely opposed” to them and calling them propaganda might be blinding yourself to what the actual goal is and what tools you can use to get there.

    Using an air conditioner to live in a hot place is, at least as I understand it, still more energy efficient than using any kind of heater or even a heat pump (which is just an air conditioner in reverse) to live in a cold place, and hot places also have more readily available sources of other energy, typically, so this is not necessarily the wrong choice as transmitting energy long distances is not always a good call either. But you have to understand the tradeoffs you are making. This is why it might seem like propaganda, but it might just be that someone’s done the math and come out to this answer. If you are looking at different numbers, or missing some of those numbers, you might come to a different conclusion, but the air conditioner itself is not the problem, the disagreement in the numbers and the context you are putting those numbers is going to be the root cause you need to figure out.

  • poVoq@slrpnk.netM
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    4 months ago

    Window awnings can help a lot in summer and are relatively easy to retrofit on an existing building.

  • perestroika@slrpnk.net
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    4 months ago

    If you are looking for passive alternatives, then I’ve got bad news: you have to design them before you build a house.

    In Iran, before electrical power became available, they used wind towers to draw up ground-cooled air through the qanat (underground aqueduct) system. It works without external power, but you have to know you need it before you build houses.

    Also, simply a house with very thick stone walls (expensive to build), a cellar (possibly with a cistern) and no south-facing windows will stay cool during summer peaks.

    • budget_biochemist@slrpnk.net
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      4 months ago

      There are a few things you can add to an existing house:

      • Awnings and other sources of shade over windows
      • White painted exterior (some white pigments are better than others at reflecting infrared)

      The south-facing comments would need to be the other way around in the southern hemisphere too.

  • HerbGrower@slrpnk.net
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    4 months ago

    Depends what you are finding most uncomfortable. Water cooling could be an option, had thought of making a water cooled blanket to stick on my bed as I was finding the bed its self getting uncomfortably warm where I was laying on it.

    Use a heat pump to cool down the water could also increase how much it cools you down, but then its just AC directed at your body instead of the room. Far less energy used though.

  • Canaconda@lemmy.ca
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    4 months ago

    First thing is to avoid air conditioner entirely so that your body climatizes. If you’re sitting in AC at work than that’s part of the problem.

    1. Block the sun from hitting your house. Outside the window not inside.

    2. Use evaporation to cool your body / the air. Swamp coolers for the house but also neck coolers for your body.

    3. If/when it drops below 20°C get as much airflow as possible. If you can use thermodynamics to your advantage by forcing hot air upstairs out while cool air from lower comes in.

  • turip@lemmus.orgOP
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    4 months ago

    Alright, I have phrased my question wrong. English is not my first language and I tend to be a bit absolute. I meant that I am opposed to A/C because I feel that we -as society- have postponed our responsibility towards eco-friendliness. Additionally A/C worsense the heat outside of your house. My conserne was not only about A/C since as pointed out heat-pumps or evaporative coolers can cost (money and energy wise) if not more the same. I made this post to hear thoughts on how we can combat heat collectively and not how as individuals we can protect ourselves temporarily. I found a lot of ideas quite interesting. I believe that small changes could have an impact. So far I think the points bellow would help:

    • Implementation of PDRC to large areas of cities
    • Planting trees in the cities
    • Blocking all sun rays so they don’t reach glass windows
    • Constructing underground Air conditioning facilities such as those in China (50% more efficient)
    • Raise awarness for the significance of drinnking water and so on… I am not completely opposed to technological advancements such as A/C. However I am keen on the aware use for the least hurtful use of it. I believe that Air conditioning by itself is not a viable solution. Sorry for not being more analitical.
        • spazzman6156@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          What people refer to as a “heat pump” is just an air conditioner that can run in reverse to provide heat in the home as well as cool it. The cooling part is the same technology as a non- heat pump air conditioner.

          Heating this way is more efficient than resistive electric heat

          Cooling is the same mechanism as standard air conditioners

          Biggest efficiency difference in A/C (cooling) would be if the compressor is inverter-driven or not

  • bitteroldcoot@piefed.social
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    4 months ago

    There are all sorts of alternatives. But they are all really expensive, difficult to deploy and tend to be viable only in certain locations. Earthships are one.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthship

    I’ve seen some people do closed-loop earth tube systems. But they collect mold and have drainage issues.

    Older homes and barns use to have Cupolas or widow’s walks, also historically called a roof walk or captain’s walk. The hot air rises and is vented out the top of the house.

    https://www.architerms.com/cupola
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widow’s_walk

    You may hate AC but for some locations and situations it’s the best solution. If not the only solution.

    • HerbGrower@slrpnk.net
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      4 months ago

      Earth tubes could pump water instead of air and then pass it through a car radiator or similar kind of heat exchanger.

      I find the idea interesting but haven’t actually tried it. Could cost a bit and not sure how effective it would be.

      • bitteroldcoot@piefed.social
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        4 months ago

        Yup. But my answer was getting kind of long. There are tons of solution from all over the world. You could write a book on this.

        Ground source heat pump operate like earth tubes.