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Lemmites:“but I might accidentally vote for a woman”
Is the misogyny on lemmy that prevalent? I spend most of my time in the hexbear and ml communities and misogyny isn’t much of an issue there but I hear it is endemic to lemmy. I haven’t seen much of it personally.
Libs believe everyone who was against Harris was only against her either cause of her race or her gender. Couldn’t possibly be for any other reason cause she was the perfect candidate that would bring about world peace and end everyone’s problems.
Having grown up in the 1970s and 1980s, when racial tolerance and women’s lib was hammered into me even via Sesame Street (it was just after the Civil Rights movement and all fresh on everyone’s minds) I am terrified of the possibility that our voting population is so obtuse that they’d be afraid of officials that are not all white Christian men.
Though part of Trump’s popularity in his 2015-2016 campaign was due to reactionary offense to Obama. So we Americans may just be that lowbrow.
What if both the candidates wish to torture you where one will kill you while other will keep you barely alive while torturing you.
Then, yeah, you’re stuck between a proverbial rock and a hard place. But when we’re talking about general Republicans vs. general Democrats, there’s a significant difference between what we can expect of them. Jamelle Bouie makes a case for that difference (on Youtube)
What’s their opinions on genocide? It’s literally the worst possible thing you can do. Is there a significant difference between them or do they both support genocide?
Well, only one of them was reposting AI slop videos of casinos built on the corpses…
In a lot of cases, both of them take contributions from and are supported by AIPAC, but that’s why it’s a matter of voting against the one that wants to dismantle USAID, by doing so killing a fuckton of children.
People not voting based on principle factors significantly into how we’re now watching Trump implement Project 2025.
It’s a system that is willfully rigged to force you to choose between bad choices hence establish contrived consent. But we’re going to be subject to the consequences of the election whether or not we vote ethically or pragmatically.
I’m not voting for genocide supporters.
One of them is going to get the job whether you vote or not.
Congratulations on your victory.
Doesn’t genocide kill a fuckton of children? If the system only gives you options where a fuckton of children get killed then the system needs to change and you aren’t doing that by voting for the lesser evil that’s still evil.
Which is why voting is not the only thing we need to be doing.
Americans failing to vote is how we lost USAID, an action which also caused the death of a fuckton of children. If the US wasn’t afraid of black women in office, a lot of dead people would, in fact, be very much alive, and more reasonable minds would be trying to solve the crisis in Gaza.
if you think you wont have to fight trump for the presidency, regardless of your vote, your delusional.
3rd option voters seething at a reasonable strategy.
VOTE
Don’t let .ml see this.
They were yelling at me to not vote Platner, to start a single man revolution.
I’m ready for one, I hate our system, the democratic establishment is aiding fascism as much as the terrorist republicans. But not voting for the guy advocating for policy to help working class people, that calls out both democrats and republicans, that both parties are spending against…
That’s just shooting ourselves in the foot at that point. People will die if a republican wins. Healthcare will be pulled back further. Etc etc.
You would think the people yelling at you to read theory would understand it themselves.
From Marx: dialectical thinking, I can work with 3rd party advocacy while recognizing the material and concrete situations as the exist currently and make strategic decisions.
From Lenin: being a single individual starting a revolution would do nothing buy get myself killed and harm the building of a revolution. The first person who dies would not be a billionaire in such an ill conceived violent revolution without mass support and parallel alternative systems to capitalism to support revolutionaries.
This image I’ve been resonating with as, of course, I’ve been attacked by the right, but now I’ve been fending off the authoritarian left and I think this is where the whole “horseshoe theory” really comes from. It’s just authoritarianism.
Hehe yeah vote for bluemaga, now with 0.001% less genocide! See way better!!
Add a 3rd option for “neither” and if that one wins the two other candidates get executed.
This kind of post isn’t helpful. It’s useless finger wagging at this point that isn’t actually going to substantively change things and it does nothing to challenge Democratic ineffectiveness.
Is the Democratic party better than the Republicans? Sure. But during the whole time Biden was in office that didn’t stop my rights from eroding in the state I live in and the current Democratic status quo is to claim that standing for some civil rights is a problem. I won’t say some things didn’t get better but an improving economy didn’t help with the cost of living for those of us who actually have to live in THIS economy.
The general argument though, is that if you vote for the lesser of two evils, therefore you’re picking the opponent that you feel you are most likely going to nudge on the issues. The DNC ran a postmortem, claimed that they were going to be open and honest about the results, then hid the results when it contradicted their pro-Israel stance.
Nevermind that our leaders are fighting corruption and fascism with strongly worded letters, while the establishment is engaged in actively trying to destroy any momentum from their left while they seek out this mythical centrist Republican that’ll vote for them. Am I supposed to feel okay with a party who’s establishment thinks my rights are optional? Are brown people supposed to feel safe when out government is engaged in active ethnic cleansing and the opposition is dog whistling about how much they love strong borders? Are people of middle eastern descent supposed to feel okay when the opposition party supports a genocide?
Are we supposed to be convinced that a political party is willing to pay attention to protests and act on them, when they can’t even be bothered to be transparent about and learn from a postmortem that told them actual fucking genocide is a line in the sand that enough people are unwilling to cross that it’d cost them one of the most consequential fucking elections of century?!
Voting blue is a tool, but how is doing it no matter who going to be meaningful when the Democrats won’t learn from their mistakes, will double down on their harms, will throw their own candidates under the bus for being too far left, and will continuously shift rightward?
I’m all for not letting the perfect get in the way of the good, and I have absolutely followed through on the “picking your opponent” mindset, but you actually have to have good on the board.
Thsts some “vote blue no matter who” bs. We have not forgotten genocide joe
“Blue no matter who” gets more done in a single year than “both sides are the same” ever will
Actually it’s “primary out the do-nothing democrats when progressive candidates are on the ballot and vote for the lesser of two evils if there’s no viable progressive candidate.” Also, if you want better candidates then help progressive candidates campaign as early as you learn about them. That could mean volunteering and door knocking, donating, or just spreading the word about them. Do what you’re able to do as enthusiastically as you can
when progressive candidates are on the ballot
Bull. Your government forbade progressives from participation. Fix your exclusivities!
Why is it everyone else’s fault that you missed a filing deadline? You sound like a fucking child.
Is this how you treat voters? Infantilizing their demands?
There have been a lot of progressive wins and upcoming wins in the past year or so. You’ve got Zohran Mamdani for mayor in Nyc. Dr. Adam Hamawy won the dem primary for New Jersey House rep. In Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed is polling very well and is very hopeful to win the Senate seat when the actual vote happens. Mamdani’s campaign has made it very clear nationally to many folks who were generally centrist or vote blue no matter who types that better candidates are out there. And that motion is continuing with campaigns like Dr. Adam Hamawy and Abdul El-Sayed’s and many others across the country. There is a progressive movement in the USA and this is the perfect time to make real change happen. Will it be easy? No. Is the system working against them? Yes. But we are still making change happen despite the obstacles. Celebrate the victories you get and then work towards the next one instead of giving up bc of one or two losses
Also, I’m getting really sick of people who aren’t from the USA spreading doomerism about the USA and saying shit can’t be fixed, and some of them even saying we need a violent revolution (not saying you’re saying that part). First of all, the USA isn’t the only place that’s fucked. Lots of countries have conservative movements that are getting out of control. I know the USA is a global superpower, but also, focus on fixing your own damn countries bc we’re focused on fixing ours and your doomer commentary doesn’t help! Second, a lot of people only hear the worst shit about the USA. They don’t hear about the wins and the progress so they just say we’re fucked without looking at the whole picture. Are things bad? Yes, but there’s real hope and change happening too
Is the system working against them? Yes.
Stop spreading this blatant lie.
Your
empire is still deathcamping people in your country and abroad.Celebrate the victories
What victories‽ It’s illegal to teach real liberation! Your contry has genocide revolution thrice!
your doomer commentary doesn’t help! saying we need a violent revolution (not saying you’re saying that part)
No Electoralist. I am saying your ballots are concessions, not political action. You can write a will, but it will never mean people will follow it. You’ve had 60 elections that amounted to naught.
And as a result, you now have Trump, who is far more eager to wipe out Palestine and turn it into a beach-front resort for billionaires.
Now things are worse, and people failing to vote against the more monstrous candidate factors into why.
Thats something that sounds intelligent to people who dont know history
What specific history are you referring to that I allegedly don’t know?
It’s hilarious how the same people who constantly harp on about “blue no matter who”, putting the phrase into peoples’ mouths despite not knowing a single thing about them, are now turning around and using the same exact phrase to try to get people to ignore the Nazi tattoos and vote for Platner.
Just an interesting thing I picked up on
I would have done this if I was not an immigrant, and physically allowed to vote.
Tho I do still understand the 46 year olds getting tired from chosing better of two evils for the 7th time.
Especially while watching other countries chose best of 6 evils and 3 goods.
ML users : reeeee
at least you and them can bond over your shared joy of using ableism to make points!
- Not, Skullgrid, def. not ableist.
- Liberal concessions is what allowed the deaf & blind to be segregated from public life, until one too many of us had enough. Directly intersect every time you can.
I don’t know a thing about this skullgrid person, but ‘reee’ is a 4chan thing making fun of autistic/nd people. Certainly something we can move beyond when wanting to say people are angry.
So why aren’t you leading a revolution?
It’s a LOT safer, and more comfortable to throw insults and point fingers.
I am, a neighbor at a time.
I already have a canteen going.
Something everyone enjoys.I wonder why Americans can’t even free food.🤔
Hey, it’s great that you’re doing that! I don’t want to demean what you’re doing, which, after all, is the most anyone could reasonably ask of you, but that isn’t going to result in an actual revolution is it? At least not in the next five years?
With that in mind, is it not also reasonable to ask that every few years you go to a ballot box and tick a box if that might result in slightly fewer of your neighbours being deported?
If you’re always on the defence, you are losing long term.
Voting might stop a problem from getting worse, but it’s not a viable solution to fix the underlying issues that require real systemic change to occur and that cannot happen from inside the system.
So vote, do all you can to stop it from getting worse. But remember that to fix it you need to fight for a revolution.
Hence the crabby letters and the protests. Right now in the US, there are a lot of issues that are popular, and Democratic candidates can be pressured into movement on those issues. Republican candidates have to obey Dear Leader or face getting primaried by the propaganda machine, hence billion-dollar ballrooms and no accountability for the $1.776 billion slushfund.
…or the inadvisable elective war on Iran.
If Americans were more literate about their elections (which is a prerequisite for democracy to work) then we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Democratic candidates can be pressured into movement on those issues.
No, they literally can’t. Kamala chose to lose rather than change the dems stance on Israel. They chose genocide over winning.
Democratic candidates can be pressured into movement on those issues.
Why didn’t they do so thrice when they were in power?
You’re going to be able to find instances where it doesn’t fully work, where positions don’t evolve. Obama era Democrats were mostly neoliberal, which factored into why Trump was able to take power.
But that shouldn’t stop you from voting against the guy who is going to do more damage.
Voting is the least an activist might do.
Leave your electoral apologia out the /c/: Your votes all amounted to empowering Nazis back into power. You refuse to directly act, because it’s inconvenient to your positions.
Voting is exactly how the electoral college elected them 5 times. Thrice against you, twice for you.
That’s the problem. More people voted for Biden than voted for Harris or Clinton. Democrats were unmotivated to stop Trump from winning, and in all three elections, he was a greater threat no matter who was running against him.
I don’t like the EC either. In fact, no-one other than the far right likes the EC.
I don’t like the EC either. In fact, no-one other than the far right likes the EC.
Then directly demolish it. Ensure it never exist.
Blue Nazis are still Nazis.That’s not a power I personally have, though there have been two attempts to amend the Constitution to eliminate it, and currently there is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which is only a couple of states away from having legal force.
The worst of Democrats, establishment Democrats who focus on serving their donors are not fascist. They’re neoliberal, and granted, neoliberalism makes states vulnerable to fascist movements (a problem faced in the EU, Australia and Canada as well as the US) but that doesn’t actually make them fascist.
You’re going to be able to find instances where it doesn’t fully work
What you mean is it never works when it actually matters. The two pivotal moments of Biden’s presidency was the rail workers gearing up to strike and the protests around support of Israel. In both instances he and nearly every Democratic politician told voters to go fuck themselves.
Which is infuriating enough and the only thing more irritating is the endless number of people like yourself trying to tell us that didn’t happen.
I’m not saying it didn’t happen. I’m saying it distracted enough voters from the threat of the GOP, of Trump, of Project 2025, of the white Christian nationalist movement, that they allowed it all to happen.
Now Palestine is even worse off, as are the rail workers. As are we all.
Your position raises a valid concern. The human species just might not be able to organize from the left well enough to stop the right with a charismatic strongman, a base of uneducated soldiers and the financial support of the ownership class. The left may, in fact, be unable to organize due to internal differences. It sucks if that’s the case. I hope not, but I haven’t ruled it out.
The left may, in fact, be unable to organize due to internal differences.
The politician you expect me to vote for tells me to go fuck myself and you call it “internal differences”.
Yeah okay bud.
You’re speaking as if there’s equal blame here. There isn’t. Liberals have treated leftists like second class voters for decades rather than making real concessions. They’re calling all the shots and that means they own all the responsibility.
And curiously, you think the solution is to let the Republicans, who hate you even more and have now set up concentration camps, win.
I do not refute that some of the Democratic organizations are captured by corporate interests, but the Republicans are even more captured, and pose a dire threat to the meager democratic features of the US political system.
Maybe you’re an accelerationist?
Right now in the US, there are a lot of issues that are popular, and Democratic candidates can be pressured into movement on those issues.
This simply isn’t true. Biden witnessed the protests regarding him supporting Israel and he told them to go fuck themselves.
One counterexample does not make it untrue. I have the same complaint regarding Obama’s failure to rise to the moment after the slaying of Michael Brown in 2014 and the Ferguson unrest. That incident demonstrated that law enforcement was due some severe reformation. It did happen, and the high rate of officer-involved homicide entered public consciousness and the Overton Window. We’ve actually seen some police reform since in some counties, but not coming from Obama or the Congress of the time.
It doesn’t take every time. But it does sometimes.
Right now things are severe, especially now that SCOTUS can pretty much veto anything it wants (including the Fourteenth, Fifteenth and Nineteenth Amendments). The US public may have to resort to noncooperation, general strikes or even civil war to create a governmental system that is public-serving. At least those of us who survive will have to try.
But for now, we’re focused on the midterm elections, to see if we really can push enough of the GOP out to stop Trump and his push towards autocracy. Things are going to get far worse if the Republican party is able to lock in a permanent majority in both houses of Congress, and that’s exactly what they’re trying to do.
We’ve actually seen some police reform since in some counties
Oh wow. Such a victory.
Give me a fucking break.
So your complaint is that we’re not moving far enough fast enough?
I share your frustration, especially as the Trump regime is moving fast and breaking things, breaking laws and then defying either courts or Congress to stop them since much of law enforcement is on its side.
I don’t know if we’re still at the point where we can a) get the Democrats back into sweeping power and b) depend on them to make sweeping reforms of elections and the US Supreme Court, and then start to rebuild what the Trump regime has destroyed, or if we’re already doomed to a one-party system and need to focus on organizing resistance like a general strike. Spelling it out like that, it seems like a long shot.
Part of it depends on how the
20162026 mid-term elections go, if they go. I suspect that swing voters may still be under the influence of the massive far-right propaganda machine that dominates social media and mainstream news. If that’s the case then the US will fall to one party autocracy and then to civilization collapse.All that said, so long as we do have elections, it’s still worthy to consider voting defensively, especially if the alternative is voting third party or not at all.
depend on them to make sweeping reforms of elections and the US Supreme Court,
They won’t. You know they won’t. Stop trying to pretend like you think otherwise. Nobody is buying it.
Trump was convicted of 34 felonies and we depended on Democrats to make sure he was sentenced. They did not.
They might reform SCOTUS now that their careers, and possibly their very lives, depend on it.
I do fear they might not do enough. The damage caused by allowing this Supreme Court to run amok is overwhelming and might not be easily reversible. They need to not merely add term limits and expand the court (possibly to over a hundred) and mandate an enforceable code of ethics, but it may be time to strip SCOTUS of jurisdiction so that they no longer have total veto power over legislation and executive action.
Curiously, term limits might require an amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Stripping them of jurisdiction only requires legislation.
Women’s rights were rolled back nationwide, but a few counties had some minor police reform!
Incremental progress! /s
It’s certainly progress in the direction centrists want: toward fascism.
But remember that to fix it you need to fight for a revolution.
Nah. We got LGBTQ+ marriages without a revolution. Civil Rights got better for a time. You’re going to have to give examples in the last 20 years where a revolution worked. Meaning, the government wasn’t taken over by an authoritarian and/or military leader.
Civil Rights got better for a time.
Widespread riots gave us the Civil Rights. Crack open Wikipedia for a minute on that champ.
First of all, Civil Rights wasn’t a revolution. Second, that’s one of the reasons I said in the last 20 years, the military wouldn’t let that happen again.
It would have been if the government hadn’t acquiesced.
Wow it’s almost like change can occur without literal revolution after all!
Not lasting change.
First of all, Civil Rights wasn’t a revolution.
I don’t give a shit what you call it.
Point is it wasn’t brought about by voting. Certainly not by voting for pro-corporate trash.
To be fair, both of those were won with plenty of violence and took decades to accomplish.
The first Pride was a riot started most likely by a black trans woman who refused to be grabbed by the cops during one of their usual roundups of gay people and threw the first punch (brick to the face?) that set off a brawl across the whole area. IIRC, 100 cops were injured in the fight. But it still took nearly 50 years for gay marriage to be completely legal in the US. 1969 was when Stonewall happened, 2015 was the Supreme Court ruling (and that can be repealed at any time, like they did with abortion). Even the first state to officially write it into law, Massachusetts, only happened in 2004.
MLK Jr credited the Black Panthers being armed and willing to do what he couldn’t as a major part of why he had the success that he did. And his protests were already illegal, risking possible prison time for those involved if they weren’t done very carefully. And even after 10 years, Civil Rights laws were only written after a week of riots and billions of dollars in property damage sparked by his murder. 10 years of protests, but it took less than a week for the laws to be drafted and signed into law when entire city districts started to get burnt to the ground.
However, revolutions can be cultural as well. Gay marriage is a great example with actual polling numbers to present. By the time that the Supreme Court ruled on it, polls said that the country was equally split on the issue while as of 2021 a full 70% of the US apparently supports gay marriage.
Yeah, people seem to forget history. Often institutions become so sclerotic that the only way forward is to work outside of them. Look what it took to defeat slavery in the US. Slaveholders had co-opted both major parties. Abolitionists tried for decades to work within the existing two party system, voting “lesser evil” election after election. In the end, this strategy failed at ending slavery. It took the founding of a new party, the Republican Party, to really make progress on abolition. It ended up leading to the Civil War, but slavery would have continued for another generation at least if abolitionists had just kept voting defensively election after election.
So you’re saying they just stopped voting for a few elections and let the bigots have free reign for a few elections? Or did they keep voting for the lesser evil in the mean time? Because that’s what this discussion is actually about, and your example doesn’t seem to apply.
The Republican Party was formed in 1854 and Lincoln was elected president running as a republican in 1860.
No. They didn’t vote lesser of two evils. You need to get out of the headspace that the only option is to vote for one of the two parties. That’s an ahistorical viewpoint. They just voted Republican until their candidate won. The Republican party was only founded after “voting for the lesser evil” failed after decades of trying. This is what I mean when I say people need to learn their history. We’ve been in this situation before, and our ancestors did not escape it by voting for the lesser evil.
We live in a two party system. We’re going to have two parties. However, the parties themselves are not eternal. We’ll always have two parties, but which parties those are can change. And often it’s easier to completely swap out parties than to reform one from within.
If you want to create a new party in the US, the only way to do so is to destroy one of the existing parties. Namely, that means making the other party completely electorally nonviable.
Imagine if the most liberal 20% of the electorate simply refused to ever vote for the Democratic Party again and switched over to the DSA. Yes, that would mean losing for a few cycles. But again, history shows that sometimes you have to put up with pain now for a better future later. Centrists will slander this as “accelerationism,” but this isn’t really that. You’re not hoping things get worse before they get better. You’re just recognizing that the only way to create a new party is to destroy an old one. Politics becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you make one of the existing parties nonviable, then a power vacuum is created, and the whole electoral alignment shifts. If leftists completely abandoned the Democrats, the Democratic party would completely collapse. It would go the way of the Whigs. When a party dies, the electoral coalitions realign. And they would realign around the old Republican Party and the new DSA or other chosen party.
I know this is hard. But really, this is just learning from history. Yes, it means you sometimes lose ground in the short term to gain ground in the long term. And that is hard. It’s painful. But compare that to what we’ve been doing instead - hoping to gain ground in the short term while losing even more in the long term. Voting for Democrats now is just voting for the lock on the ratchet. They have no real desire to change anything. At best you get a temporary reprieve from creeping fascism, while nothing changes in the circumstances that lead to the fascism.
“John Brown’s body lies a-mouldering in the grave.”
You can fight to install progressives at the local level while voting defensively at the national level. Local progressive movement are not only a LOT easier to pull off, but will help create widespread acceptance of progressive ideals as they get good outcomes. Then you expand to the state level and house, then the senate, then you’re well positioned to push for a progressive in the presidency.
See: Zohran Mandani, Katie Wilson…
Next could be Nithya Raman?
These are good examples of what it takes, however, including primary participation and grassroots activism. In addition, the NYC mayoral featured ranked choice voting.
In other words, Duverger’s Law can’t simply be ignored in FPTP systems like those of the US, and anyone who suggests otherwise (like saying you should vote non-strategically to defeat the MAGA opposition) is either terribly ill-informed or, more likely, is working for the opposition.
duverger’s “law” is literally a tautology and has no predictive power at all
edit:
modern tests largely bear out his expectations when properly specified and interpreted.
surely you can see that when rigor is applied, they must soften the language. it’s not a law. it doesn’t predict. it doesn’t dictate. it doesn’t preclude.
This is true, but it’s also important to be aware that if all americans ever do is vote then things will never improve. It’s important to vote still, but it can’t end there
Yeah, but also, things would get better faster if we only focused on getting more people to THAN IT WOULD if we only focused trying to get people who dont take other actions to do so.
You can fight to install progressives at the local level while voting defensively at the national level.
And the national party does everything it can to make sure you’re stuck with trumpist shit like Henry Cuellar.
Or, hear me out, you just let people vote for progressives if they want and don’t blame them for dems losing. Maybe look at why people stopped voting after Obama? Maybe he happy that people vote at all because it allows more votes for progressives/dems in the local level, even if it doesn’t help at the national level? Cuz dems have a lot of issues, not just leftists “not” voting for them. (sure, some don’t but iirc they’re actually the highest % dem voting block, even if they are much smaller in population. )
I’m not blaming them for dems losing, and they can vote however they want, I’m not stopping them. This isn’t about how you can and can’t vote, it’s about how to make your vote work to prevent situations like we’re in right now, while also pushing for longer-term outcomes, and we can all have - and share - our opinions on how to do that.
Personally, I think it’s counter-productive to refuse to actively vote to prevent our current situation in the name of ideals or whatever else. It’s going to take years if not decades to fix the damage being done right now, in all likelihood. But you’re welcome to have your own opinion on that matter.
if that sort of voting prevented this situation at all we wouldn’t be here?
Do you think supporting the lesser evil magically makes the two parties put forward BETTER candidates? All that shit does is lead to parties racing to the bottom, voters getting fucking tired of it and either stop voting, or look at trump and go “at least he isn’t a politician he’ll do something different” and vote for him. Dems refuse to do shit about it but run shit after shit after shit. When they had huge turnout for Obama’s message of “change” and now their message with biden is “nothing will fundamentally change” which… cool. Great. Way to energize your voters. “Not trump” isn’t enough. and until the DNC learns that, they can fuck themselves as they aren’t improving or preventing shit. I’ll always vote, but I’m voting for candidates that are the most worthy of a fucking vote.
if that sort of voting prevented this situation at all we wouldn’t be here?
Is your stance that Harris would have been doing the same shit Trump is doing, had she been elected instead? That it wouldn’t have been any better? If that’s what you’re positing… I strongly disagree, and I really don’t know how you can even start to back that claim up.
Regardless, vote how you want. I’ve had this conversation with enough people with your exact stance to know that there’s nothing I can say to change your mind and there’s nothing you’re going to say to change mine, so continue doing you and I’ll continue doing me.
She said she’d do the exact same amount of genocide in Gaza. She would absolutely let Israel start a war with Iran.
No, you’ve said voting defensively prevents exactly what is happening. As if people don’t vote defensively. As if we are not here.
Harris being run is WHY we are here. The DNC thinking they can get away with being antidemocratic (attacking third parties, suing to get them off the ballot, don’t get me started on the “victory fund” bullshit) is WHY WE ARE HERE. It’s on them. The DNC has fucked itself since after Obama. That’s why so many normal ass people haven’t voted since Obama. I’m not talking super principled leftists. I’m talking normie shit. They don’t vote anymore because it’s fucking garbage. Because even if the DNC won they wouldn’t do anything of substance to help. Half of what happened in Palestine was in collab WITH Biden, planned by him and passed on to Trump. Maybe it would’ve been slower. Draw out the suffering more, but it wouldn’t have been changed for the better, which is the problem. Better than the worst imaginable isn’t good enough for people.
What I said was that voting defensively makes your vote work towards preventing this sort of thing, whereas voting third party does not. Protest votes, ballot spoilage, 3rd party votes and similar actions make a statement, but so does voting for progressives down ballot.
To put it succinctly, people voting 3rd party didn’t cause the current situation, but they did nothing to prevent or obstruct the current situation, either.
credit to slrpnk.net instance admins for sharing this often:
⬛ Union Resources 🟥
These are unions from around the world who can train you to become an effective organizer to form a grassroots union with your co-workers!
finally, a real fucking take.
Too bad the people who need to hear this aren’t listening. I tried to make the same argument in 24 and constantly got responses that didn’t amount to anything more than
Nope, I’m gonna take my ball and go home, who cares if temu Hitler wins? Both sides blah blah blah
It doesn’t feel that the Democrats will actually listen much anymore, we’re shouting we’re drowning at the top of our lungs everyday and they’re like “Thoughts and prayers with a pride flag.”
