- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- Travelers can opt out of facial recognition at US airports by requesting manual ID verification, though resistance or intimidation may occur.
- Facial recognition poses privacy risks, including potential data breaches, misidentification, and normalization of surveillance.
- The Algorithmic Justice League’s “Freedom Flyers” campaign aims to raise awareness of these issues and encourage passengers to exercise their right to opt out.
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Opt out. If we don’t exercise our rights, we lose them.
"What if they retaliate and make life difficult for me? "
That’s both illegal and against policy. If someone delays your right to travel for this specific reason, delay their job by asking for their supervisor and their name and employee number. Then file a complaint. That will dissuade that public servant (and their leadership) from exhibiting such behavior and encouraging it respectively.
“But they are capturing your image in 10 skillion other public locations.”
- Sure, and you have the option to create your own privacy in public.
- Further, what’s the real purpose of the scanner at the TSA check if they already have that detailed image of your retina, your facial pore patterns and whatever the fsck else they store? They don’t have that level of detail yet on CCTV.
If you don’t care, then that’s fine. Some people don’t mind the slow encroachments on 4th Amendment protections. Cool. Others do. Cool also. That’s why we can opt out.
I did this during an international trip last year coming back into the country. The guy mostly seemed confused and kind of suspicious, but it was nbd.
They will potentially take you out of line to a side room to hand you off to someone else. It seemed to be an area where they deal with any oddball kind of things. There was a lady ahead of me who was more raucus and upset about some issue with her ID. The guy who checked mine mainly seemed kind of bemused, like it was unusual.
Be prepared for “We have the biometric data from your photo already, why do you care?”
You’re not obligated to give them a super detailed justification. Just remain polite and unconfrontational, and explain that you prefer not use the system as long as the right remains afforded to you to opt out.
(Note, this right only extends to US citizens)
Stupid privacy people. What’s the worst that could happen? A fascist coming into power next year who could misuse the data?
Minority Report
Stupid privacy people. What’s the worst that could happen? Surveillance companies that have already scoured the internet for photos of people to build a giant database of people?
It’s also not like they could ever use the hundreds of other cameras all over the airports. What would they do with all that data anyways?
For international flights, US citizens can opt out but foreign nationals have to participate in face scanning, with some exceptions.
Which exceptions?
I’ll bet one of the exceptions is having a bunch of money.
I remember when travelling in the US (Im a foreigner) there was a vip pass thingy to skip lines and enter without even talking to a migration officer (I think). Really seemed like a rich person pass
I’m Canadian and I used to have a pass like that. It was $50 at the time and valid for 5 years.
Hey everyone, this guy’s loaded!
Yeah, there are two different programs. One is for domestic flights and one is for domestic and international.
I did the domestic flight one once because it was free with my credit card.
But I had to fill out some forms and interview in person.
I only got to use it once because they vip lanes were always closed.
It’s only worth it if you need to travel a lot.
Additionally, I’ve never really suffered long lines through airport security.
The long lines are typically at immigrations and you can’t skip those outside of being a diplomat or private jet rich.
They can skip it yeah, that’s the whole point of the international one
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/trusted-traveler-programs/global-entry
And you can also skip them if an employee gives you TCC pass when your connecting flight will leave soon so you need to get there fast (had that happen to me once)
Probably diplomatic passport holder.
For international flights, US citizens can opt out but foreign nationals have to participate in face scanning, [with some exceptions]
I had no idea we were already at that point.
always wanted to visit the US. I guess that won’t happen then.
I refuse to participate in this dystopia. But I’m a little worried this will make me a recluse
Trust me you’re already a recluse relative to most by being on here. If you observe what passes for a “normal” “person” these days, they will endlessly scroll algorithmic ai-generated incomprehensible horrors on Tiktok, then purchase something through an ad from temu, they do not think. They are gone.
But once you stop worrying that you may be saying no to experiences too much purely on principle, then you’re free to go even further and eradicate surveillance capitalism influence from your life altogether. One day you can ascend to even go smartphone-free.
If you observe what passes for a “normal” “person” these days, they will endlessly scroll algorithmic ai-generated incomprehensible horrors on Tiktok, then purchase something through an ad from temu, they do not think.
Can you just like, not be so damn condescending and elitist? Literally saying people who use TikTok and purchase stuff from Temu are sub-human…
they will endlessly scroll algorithmic ai-generated incomprehensible horrors on Tiktok
How is that much different from scrolling Lemmy? They are both social media
That’s like saying a Subaru and a submarine are both modes of travel.
One day you can ascend to even go smartphone-free.
Ascended to that in late 2014 because using a smartphone was a trigger for my anxiety.
Back to using those since 2020 because of WhatsApp calls, apps for every shit and such being needed in life.
I’m going to assume they can photgraph you the moment you walk into the airport.
I used to be extra during the TSA body scan BS. And honestly, I felt like they won.
They’ll always win because they can just prevent you from flying.
They pulled me in a private room when I refused to body scan and my bag was suspicious.
It was an extra 25 minutes. Enough to be inconvenient as they tried to find two available TSA agents willing to body check me then check every single item in my suitcase.
I tried to refuse the face scan and they looked at me like I just grew eye stalks. After a long pause, I said never mind I need to catch this flight, let’s do it.
It’s not a hill I’m willing to die on, even though I’m disappointed with the practice.
I refused, it went fine. I had to repeat myself because it was unexpected and dudebro wasn’t prepared, and they had to turn on the other machine and wait for it to start up, but it only delayed me like 2 minutes. The more people ask, the easier it gets.
That’s the fun part about the war for privacy. We have already lost and if you make a big deal about it they’re just going to make your life hell!
It’s not such a binary thing as winning or losing, it’s a constantly shifting process. The only way to actually lose is by giving up – instead, consider it making it as hard as possible for your privacy to be infringed upon. Sometimes it’s more inconvenient, but what makes us such a farmable populace is our reluctance to be inconvenienced. Be good at being uncomfortable.
I find stupid to give away my biometric data to everyone asking for it just because I gave it away once in exchange of my passport, but I guess that’s just me.
The game was lost for me when I started getting fingerprinted at certain airports. This privilege used to be reserved for suspected criminals. Now we’re are all suspected criminals on a default setting.
I’m okay with the TSA scan (pre-check) since… you know… they already have you if you took a picture for your ID.
Those “clear” people however. Who TF thinks it’s a good idea to hand your biometric info to a corp?
Clear is now a TSA “vendor” for the precheck process. The machines they use for the sign up process - at least the airport I was at - don’t have the eye scanning camera in the kiosk.
The Clear representative I was asking questions of had said they don’t require eye scans for Clear, though that is the default. People can ask to use just fingerprints, which he said does disrupt the terminal process as the agents don’t think to ask if fingerprints were what was registered when the eye scans fail.
I am not advocating for Clear. I refuse to use them. I simply do want to call out that they are one of 3 who handle the process for the TSA now. People do have a choice of which of the three to use.
As I said. They already have it.
Isn’t reducing the size of the dataset worth it? I’d rather them have a picture from three years ago than a new scan every month or two.
So then why do they need it again?
There’s no way my ID photo would work for facial recognition. I don’t plan on giving them anything new before I’m forced to
How did you get into TSA Pre without providing fingerprints? I tried once, and they strictly refused to let me apply because I wouldn’t give fingerprints.
Well, I’ve had DLs in multiple states and they all required fingerprints. The little digital ones. Maybe that’s not the case everywhere though.
Oh, weird. They don’t require prints for a DL in TX, but we’re already closing in on an authoritarian state anyways. I didn’t know this was a thing.
It probably has to do with whether the driver’s license is Real ID compliant or not. Here in Minnesota, you have the option of getting the Real ID license that can be used as a federal ID card for things like flying, or the regular old driver’s license which soon will really only be good for showing you’re allowed to drive a car.
I only have the regular driver’s license so I don’t know what all getting the Read ID involves, but having your biometric data scanned and stored seems like something they’d require.
Texas is real id compliant. Has been for like seven years iirc
Planes <<<<<< trains.
For distances >600km, flying is usually 4x-10x faster at a similar price. At least in and around Germany. I assume in the US trains compare way worse, also because the distances are way larger.
Examples: “Normal” example: Stuttgart (Germany) -> Amsterdam (Netherlands) Train: 11h 10min - 241€ Plane: 1h 20min - 225€
Best case scenario for train in Germany at around that distance (because there’s a direct connection): München -> Berlin Train: 3h 54min - 167€ Plane: 1h 5min - 226€
They are very much incomparable more so than they are comparable. Try taking a train over a sea or across a country like the US.
Hour vs. hour it’s the best form of transportation
You get more space, there’s no TSA, you don’t get charged for bringing luggage, you can carry on liquids, you get leg room, the wifi is decent.
But if I’m traveling a really far distance… For example, if I’m going from California to New York I’d rather go by plane. Going by train for that seems to be pretty horrible. America is in desperate need of a ground transportation that can get from California to New York quickly.
If we put in a mag-lev system that averages 250 mph from station to station, an overnight sleeper train across the country becomes extremely attractive.
You’re too smart for this site. I too love taking trains across both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans!
I’d actually love to take some sort of sea train, underground tunnel or floating death wave train one day. It wouldn’t be relaxing, peaceful, or cheap. But it would be an adventure.
Agreed, but they’ll inevitably fuck those up too.
Brit here. About eight years ago I flew from London to Belfast and return for business. We don’t need a passport to travel to Northern Ireland, just photo id like driving licence is fine.
Coming back to London I approached the gate and before I could pull out my wallet to show my id, the guard says " Good evening Mr. Codandchips have a safe journey "…
Yes they have facial recognition, the cameras are visible but you don’t notice them.
I refuse to go through the body scanners, but the last time I went through the airport there wasn’t anyone trying to opt-out. I seriously doubt if the radiation perv scanner doesn’t get people to do anything, this won’t either.
I seriously doubt if the radiation perv scanner doesn’t get people to do anything
You mean the backscatter X-ray units that have already been phased out 10 years ago?
The modern milimeter-wave scanners both do not reveal anything and do not use ionising radiation. If radiation is a concern to you, you really shouldn’t be flying at all to be honest. The dose you get up there is much higher than you’d get from an X-ray scanner, although it is still negligible.
Like I get it, it’s scary and I don’t want them to have my data, but my picture is being taken ALL the time basically everywhere I go. Is putting my foot down for this specific type really making a difference?
It’s the only real way to push back that other folks will notice if enough of us do it.
Last time I went through DC a few weeks ago they were using these. I saw a sign saying you’re welcome to opt out. Nobody even questioned what they were doing and were just going along. When it was my turn I politely said I’d rather not do the scan. Dude just glanced at my ID and waved me through. The next few folks behind me blinked and said they didn’t want the scan either. If enough people push back it can at least maybe slow down the normalization of constant surveillance.
The last time I flew they did this, but there was a huge sign that said photos are immediately deleted after verification…is this not true?
Just for example, that’s an easy way to save just the biometric signature and have very few people question it.
Also, bureaucratic lies can be technically true. They copy the photo from the original device to a database, then delete the photo on the device. So it’s technically true the photo was immediately deleted, it’s just also copied and persisted forever. And a bureaucrat will proudly stand in front of you all day and tell you they deleted the photo, and they will sleep well that night with not any concern
If you already have a passport and opt out of facial recognition, you’re only deluding yourself into a false sense of privacy. In fact, if you enter the screening area at all in an airport, you are kidding yourself if you think you can maintain some semblance of privacy. The government knows what you look like. Calm down and move on with your life.
Fuck calming down. That’s how we got into this mess in the first place. People are to complacent with privacy. Anyone that thinks this attitude won’t lead to terrible things is a fool.
The reality is that the ship for that kind of privacy has shipped a long time ago. Like a hundred years ago. The reality is that the authorities know details about every single person that passes through an airport. You can’t get in or out without a passport/identification.
There is virtually no expectation to privacy at an airport. It’s a public place that is heavily monitored for good reason. And that fact isn’t hidden in the slightest. You are legally required to freely and honestly identify yourself to the authorities.
If this was at your local bus stop, then you’d have a point. But not at airports.
Also, the serious discussion about privacy should have started with the introduction of the smartphone. That’s when the conversation would have mattered and made a difference. But that ship has sailed.
For hundreds of years women couldn’t vote and minorities were categorically segregated. Things aren’t perfect for those groups now either but those ships had sailed and it was only because some people were vocal and outraged about it. If you’re not pissed off and making a little bit of a scene about what’s happening to human rights including privacy rights you’re part of the problem. If you see somebody protesting their picture in an airport security line, don’t be one of the sheep in the line saying hurry up buddy, you’re slowing us down. Tell the people around you he’s got every right to be upset about this. A bit of awareness and resistance is a good thing.
For hundreds of years women couldn’t vote and minorities were categorically segregated.
That’s a strawman analogy. We’re not talking about privacy as a whole. The discussion here is about the supposed right to privacy at, what amounts to, a government controlled entrance point into the country. You have to identify yourself no matter which technology is being used. There’s no anonymity at an airport (from the government). Whether it’s technology or a piece of paper, you are legally required to identify yourself.
I keep saying this over and over, but if you want to talk about digital privacy, focus your energy on smartphones and the internet. The impact for privacy violation and the impact for regaining privacy rights is the most effective there.
Only a subset of any population has any interaction with an airport and the privacy implications there are next to nothing (because there is no right to anonymity there).
The more you let a government stick high resolution 3d cameras in your face and shrug it off because you’ve already lost privacy the stronger their database becomes, the more complacent you become, the more willing you become to let them do it at the train station, the post office, the crosswalk, etc. The more willing you become to put your palm on their palm reader and retina in their retina scanner when they deploy that technology. I’m not dismissing better avenues to focus efforts, I’m acknowledging the increase in surveillance and potential for abuse in the absence of any proven benefit to the people that are allegedly protected by these changes.
