EDIT: since apparently a bunch of people woke up with the wrong foot this morning or forgot to check the group they’re in:

This is a joke. Do not steal or vandalize speed enforcement cameras (or anything else for that matter). That’s against the law and you will likely get arrested.

If you’re addicted to crack or any other drugs, please seek professional help.

  • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    It’s simple. If you design the road to be wide, straight, with wide, clearly marked lanes, clear sides and a smooth surface, people will naturally be inclined to drive faster. This is based on experiences with forgiving design. For motorways, this is fine. But for residential neighbourhoods and school zones, it’s a bloodbath waiting to happen.

    So out there, you do the exact opposite. Make the street so narrow that anything bigger than an average pickup truck barely fits in a lane. Make it out of brick and don’t mark the centre of the road. Surround the street with shrubs and other obstacles, and stick it full of sharp chicanes.

    This is the deliberate inverse of forgiving design, called traffic calming.

    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Make the street so narrow that anything bigger than an average pickup truck barely fits. Make it out of brick and don’t mark the centre of the road.

      School buses are a thing.

        • Emerald@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          The urban planning in many cities is so absurd and not meant for buses. This means school bus routes are absolute madness and can take hours to get everyone home

        • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I specifically quoted the part about making the road in front of a school so narrow a pickup truck would have trouble.

          If it’s too narrow for a pickup truck, how are school busses supposed to function?

          • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Then let me specify:

            Wide enough for one pickup and no opposing traffic, but so narrow that two pickups are going to really have to negotiate to move around each other.

            • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Schools have more than one bus and they have to pass each other. There are also school buses for the other nearby schools like the middle school and high school running at the same time even when school starts times are offset.

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                10 months ago

                Schools have more than one bus and they have to pass each other.

                No they don’t they can enter from the same side. You’re just looking for excuses. Also why do you need buses in the first place why aren’t the kids walking or biking.

                • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  You have one bus going in one direction to a school passing another bus going to another school.

                  Have you only lived in an inner city where roads can be one way because they alternate in direction every block?

                  Also why do you need buses in the first place why aren’t the kids walking or biking.

                  ??? If that’s your solution then why is there a road to begin with? Just ban cars. Simple.

                  • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                    10 months ago

                    You have one bus going in one direction to a school passing another bus going to another school.

                    In front of a school? Are your schools connected directly to highways or something?

                    Have you only lived in an inner city where roads can be one way because they alternate in direction every block?

                    We don’t have blocks.

                • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip
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                  10 months ago

                  My elementary school was 15 miles from my house. You think that’s a safe distance for a 6 year old to travel alone?

                  • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                    10 months ago

                    Let me look at a map… maybe 1km max anywhere in my 30k town to the next primary school and that’s when you’re living on the very very edge of town. Should be under 500m for most pupils.

                    If you’re living in a rural area, outside of the next village (which will have a school), which is an absolute exception as things tend to cluster into villages in rural areas, it might be 5km. Not really an issue with a bike, I biked what 3.5km to Kindergarten (together with my mom). If you have less density than that you probably should have boarding schools.

                    For secondary education, if you’re living in a village you’ll probably have to take the bus to the nearest city. Regular public transport though the schedule will take school times into account. Yes, kids can walk 500m to the nearest station.

                    Bonus: All that school density – smaller but way more of them – means that there’s obvious places to hold elections as there’s a municipality-owned place in Sunday stroll distance to pretty much everywhere. The only downside are the ludicrously low tables.

            • wesley@yall.theatl.social
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              10 months ago

              Yup, if a school bus is coming then everyone going the other way better slow down and watch out!

              It’s about not making it fit “comfortably”, not that it can’t fit at all. Drivers who feel uncomfortable naturally slow down and pay more attention.

              • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Drivers who feel uncomfortable naturally slow down and pay more attention.

                Congratulations, you stumbled upon the key point of traffic calming!

      • psud@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        My city has exactly one road designed like this. Fire trucks have no problem

        • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I really want to see these cities. They have a dedicated grid of streets for cyclists, a different grid for fire trucks, a different grid for pedestrians, and a Kafkaesque nightmare of curves for cars. Cars that presumably often break down and the drivers are found later fleshless with teeth marks on their bones. Somehow 4 seperate roadway structures are imposed on a single city.

          • psud@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            I wish my suburb’s streets were rebuilt to pedestrian/cyclist friendly style. It would be easy as every street has very easy access to the 80km/h square of main roads that surround it

            You could block every street in the suburb in its middle and force all drivers to take the shortest path to a fast road, and let bikes and walkers take the short paths within the suburbs.

            My street has about 2000 cars a day, with over 90% of them using it as a short path between two fast roads, or accessing or leaving a destination in a different part of the same suburb.

            A friend lives in a suburb that’s a tree structure, that’s about a third best as there are no destinations from the “trunk” roads to anything but destinations within the suburbs. I’d hate to see that suburb needing to be evacuated quickly, but they’re deep in suburbia and on a hill, so safe from fire and flood

            • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              I wish mine was as well. Just a nice straightforward grid. Minimize the time it takes to get anywhere by any means. Makes navigation easier as well.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Not an issue in Europe. Though granted the US would probably need to replace their fire trucks with sanely-sized ones. You also don’t need to haul a big-ass ladder in a low-density area what’s your plan use it to do a header into a suburban pool.

        Regarding response time absence of gridlock will be more important than the last hundred metres on a residential street, consider investing in public transportation, walkable cities, and generally everything that abolishes owning and using a car being mandatory.

    • Hey, I live on a road like that. It’s not even bricks, but good ol’ cobblestone. The cars also share it with a tram.

      There’s a lot of pedestrians crossing. It’s a residential area with shops in the ground floor of all the buildings.

      There’s multiple schools and kindergartens around, so they set the speed limit to 30km/h. Does that matter? No. People go 50-60 during the day and 70-80 at night. The only times that doesn’t happen is when the cops set up a mobile speed camera.

      The road is fairly straight, I’ll give you that, but I guess they can’t just demolish a few kilometres of 100yrs old houses to make to road a bit winding.

      • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I mean, if the road street takes up only part of the width of the right of way, you can do a lot with blocking off half the road street and alternating which side every few dozen metres. No demolition required.

        Upon closer inspection, what you just described is a street, not a road.

        Also, even with a narrower street, with strategically placed obstacles, you can convince drivers to zig-zag and reduce their speed that way.

        • I didn’t know there was a difference, I’ve been using them synonymously.

          With the proposed changes traffic would have to wait constantly to let the other side pass. You would not only limit speed, but als throughput. If you just go slower because of speed cameras, the amount of traffic can stay the same.

          There’s a lot of cars and lorries going through here. Sometimes a road/street that has a lot of traffic just goes through a fairly residential area and we kind of have to live with the fact.

          And if you think that’s bad city planning call the eighteen hundreds and complain to these people.

          • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            There’s a difference. A road is meant to be a fast connection between points at the ends. This calls for forgiving design and higher speeds.
            Meanwhile, a street is meant to be for allowing access to the nearby land. That warrants lower speeds, and the expectation that anyone can be on any of the sides as they see necessary. A street should function less like a vehicle artery, and more like an outdoor room.

            Notice that these are incompatible uses. North American traffic engineers clearly didn’t, allowing main streets to become the main thoroughfare, i.e. the main roads through an area as well. This produces the most dangerous type of transportation infrastructure: the stroad. Which is both meant to be a fast connection AND access to the nearby land, and in doing so fails at both.

            If this stretch of car infrastructure you were discussing is supposed to be a street, vehicle throughput should probably be one of the last priorities, and vehicles are better off on a road a few blocks over.

    • milkytoast@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      nah fuck brick roads. the rest sure. not brick. dangerous for panick braking (less traction), wears iunt tires and suspension prematurely

      • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Problems that are all reduced, eliminated or rendered irrelevant altogether if traffic moves slowly, which it probably does, thanks to all the other modifications.

        Plus, they add a ton of road noise inside the vehicle, further increasing the level of discomfort at higher speeds, contributing to a lower design speed.

      • psud@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Panic braking from 20 km/h isn’t going to be impeded by a brick surface, even wet brick.

      • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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        10 months ago

        Main roads shouldn’t be brick, but local residential streets certainly should. The speed limit should be 30 km/h or less anyway, and in a well-designed road network they should only make up a tiny portion of your overall drive, so wearing tyres and suspension isn’t an issue.

    • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Wrong. Making winding roads slows down traffic but increases the amount of time it takes to cover a given distance. Which leads to less people walking and cycling plus more local air pollution. You want nice grids. People walk in NYC they don’t walk in burbs. This is what city planners refuse to grasp. You don’t make driving more difficult, you make alternatives easier.

      • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I agree with that last point, but the rest ignores the fact that this refers especially, specifically to school zones, where, as stated previously, fast traffic is a bloodbath about to happen.

          • Iron Lynx@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            We’re talking the area just around a school where it’s safe to assume there are likely to be a lot of children outside of vehicles.

            • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Might be less children around exiting vehicles if road wasn’t designed for one fucking vehicle at a time made out bricks because some moron hired a city planner. Why don’t you just post snipers and shot ambulance drivers?

      • wesley@yall.theatl.social
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        10 months ago

        The road can have unnecessary curves that the sidewalks and bike lanes do not.

        There are other ways to slow vehicles as well such as chicanes that narrow the street at certain points such that only 1 vehicle can pass fit through it at once, raised crosswalks, etc. There are a lot of ways to design the street to force drivers to slow down and pay attention.

        Unfortunately, if drivers have room to speed then it comes at the expense of the well being and safety of everyone else (even other drivers).

        I agree that winding culdesacs suck btw, but a street grid doesn’t solve the problem if safety in front of a school. If designed poorly it can make it worse since long straight streets can easily be turned into drag strips of speeding vehicles. Street grids are fine and good, but they should not allow drivers to go faster than is compatible with a pleasant and safe environment for people outside of the vehicles.

      • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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        10 months ago

        Making winding roads slows down traffic but increases the amount of time it takes to cover a given distance

        You don’t do this everywhere. You do it where you want traffic speeds to be low. Residential streets, school zones, shopping precincts, and the like.

        Plus, you further aid pedestrians and cyclists by having these residential streets not be through-traffic, except to pedestrians and cyclists. Use “modal filters”.

      • psud@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        The pedestrians and cyclists get good straight paths. The curves on the road are made by consuming its excess width