Still better than jar jar
Darth Jar Jar was the original plan, Lucas changed it after the backlash against the character. He was supposed to be the new trilogy’s foil to the goofy character in a New Hope, Yoda. Lucas has said that he was making the new trilogy rhyme with the original, no other character matches with that initial Yoda introduction. That is also why Grievous and Dooku come out of nowhere despite supposedly being big characters, to fill the gap.
Darth Jar Jar was the original plan, Lucas changed it after the backlash against the character.
Was this ever confirmed? I just thought it was a fan theory.
That said, if Lucas had actually gone down this path, it would have totally redeemed Jar Jar.
Oh it’s just a fan theory, but it makes sense and matches with comments Lucas has made with regards to the overarching themes. It also explains odd things the character does, which must have been intentional since he was a CG character.
Lucas will probably never confirm or deny it officially because it would confirm that either he got scared and made a huge mistake abandoning that plotline and making the story worse in the process, or that he made a bad character a pivotal linchpin of the storyline since Jar Jar is the deciding vote that gives us the Empire.
I find Neelix really difficult to watch in the early seasons. His stubborn attitude, jealousy and overall inappropriate relationship with Kez… Makes me sick to me stomach watching him.
Context: I am biased. I’ve been underage and been with men like Neelix. They are pathetic, narcissistic and not worth anyone’s time.
Naw you aren’t wrong, he is possessive as shit over his 3 year old girlfriend. But lets blame the writers for that and not the character.
If we’re going to keep bringing up a literal age of the Ocampa as though it’s some gotcha we should also mention they never reach an age we’d consider adult. Most of them die before they even become teens.
We could blame the writers, or we could blame the puritanical mouth breathers who’d rather virtue signal their disgust at the mere concept of pedophilia rather than over the very real problems of child abuse and rape.
eh? I just don’t like the way he reacted to Kes trying to have a friend in her short time in the universe (Tom Paris).
He got jealous over more than just Paris, it’s just none of the other ones were main characters. He also got paranoid and jealous because she knew which deck some male crew members rooms were on.
His jealousy was a flaw, but it’s the flaws are what make characters interesting. It doesn’t always make them likeable, but it certainly makes them more real. If he was perfect he’d be everything OP was claiming he was. Instead he was a much more real and deep character. His character also evolved over time to be less jealous and guarded as he came to trust his fellow crew members, including Paris. If he didn’t have those characteristics he’d be little more than a background character.
Those flaws aren’t the problem of bad writing, they’re a problem of good writing.
And if her age didn’t matter, why’d you mention it?
I was trying tro relate to kablez’s context statement to be honest, though now I’m wishing I hadn’t so my position would be clearer. But her literal age really doesn’t matter; her “world experience” is what matters. Or her lack thereof rather. Neelix, at times, seem’s to be taking advantage of someone who is young and naive. Neelix absolutely does evolve past it and becomes quite good friends with Tom later on. The last scene of “Parturition” always makes me smile. But up until that point I always find Neelix and Kes’s scenes a little bit cringey.
That’s the thing, he’s trying to protect her from people who will take advantage of her. He literally saves her from a group of people who at the very least tortured her to try and figure out a way to get to her people. Whom they’d likely massacre and make slaves of.
The problem is that over-protectiveness can be just as bad, which is something he comes to realize over the course of the first couple seasons.
I can’t remember the exact scene or episode for the life of me, but she’s talking to some male member of the crew and asks to keep something a secret between them “because neelix gets jealous”. She felt the need to hide just because of how she figured he would react.
In the early seasons, I couldn’t figure out how the fastest ship in the area could travel in one direction and still keep meeting the same people over and over.
I was too distracted by the insanely nonsensical main storyline to ever worry about Neelix.
Tom Paris is the worst character on Voyager, fight me.
If you took a spoiled 6 year old from the 1950’s and suddenly turned him into an adult, that child would be Tom Paris. He’s overly childish, and not in a cute way. He character has practically zero depth. He’s like Wesley Crusher if Wesley was an idiot.
He’s also responsible for all the awful Captain Proton episodes that I always skip.
Yep, that’s one of the main reasons I compare him to a 6 year old from the 1950’s.
Tom Paris is the kind of character that would sleep in a racecar bed and think it made him cool.
“if” doing a lot of heavy lifting there
The thing i do like about tom, is that hes a pilot, and wants to be a pilot. Making a hot rod shuttle, building old muscle cars on the holodeck. Wanting to enter a star race… just wants to go fast.
Tom Paris was a pseudonym. His real name was Nick Lacarno and he got kicked out of the academy while Westley Crusher was there.
A pseudonym cleverly concocted to avoid paying royalties to Naren Shankar, the writer of TNG 5x19: The First Duty, who was let go after TNG finished its run.
Lower decks squashed that theory.
That’s like saying Brunt of the FCA and Weayun are the same person.
Lower decks is barely canon, much like Clerks was barely a movie.
/s
Look, Lower Decks might have featured another person with the same name as Nick Lacarno, but that guy looked completely different, so it was obviously a new character.
Yeah it’s like they were going to give him a strong character arc by showing him growing up side by side with Harry Kim… But then the writers forgot to actually grow their characters. So they’re just children the whole time.
Wesley Crush is already really shallow character like the rest of tng
Oh come on! Not a compelling story? He’s a space scavenger, his people are nomadic because OF GENOCIDE, who are wandering space in search of a new home.
He’s an ex-soldier, ex-criminal, who can’t quite come to terms with his past because he wants to be morally and ethically good, he has SEVERE “people pleaser” issues and tries to be everyone’s friend - BUT is not so weak that he can’t fight or stand up for himself or his friends. He’s multi talented, but doesn’t always know when to reign it in and he serves as a motivational character for the Voyager crew who are lost in space – and actually does a good job of it!!
This is the character of our generation. Wtf do you mean “not a compelling story”?
Bad acting? Actually agree, but you can also say that it’s the mannerisms of his people, because it seems to be a mainstay that they are all sort of “whimsical forest creatures” - for lack of better terms - which could be a writeoff in terms of acting.
But Neelix is just so endearing to me. To see how Tuvok struggles to understand him or even accept him - being the “LoGiCaL VuLCaN” that he is - is just one of those Star Trek duos that’s up there with Bashir and Garek, Kirk and Spock, etc.
He might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but a bad character, bad story? That’s boulderdash. Now cut a little jig and make a pot of space weavels - bring some light into your friends life, you low energy having, negative nancy ass bastards.
Be like Neelix.
Bashir and Garek, Kirk and Spock
How about Quark and Odo? I love both of these stick-in-the-mud cop vs lovable rogue duos!
Quark and Odo <3
There’s so much comedy in the Quark/Odo relationship that’s played perfectly and isn’t at the expense of either of the characters.
The uptight lawman/morally good criminal will-they-wont-they frenemyship is one of my favorite dynamics in the show and is up there with Garak/Bashir or even La Forge/Data.
isn’t at the expense of either of the characters
It always felt like Odo had the slight upperhand (or narrative sympathy?) in every scenario which was a tad annoying when a major theme of his character arch is his possible propensity for outright authoritarianism (a character arch I thought was brilliant to give him and, sadly, not explored nearly enough).
I still love both of them but that aspect of the dynamic will always bother me.
I wouldn’t say it’s bad acting? It seems right in line with an anxious people-pleaser who doesn’t know when to quit. I thought he was spot on.
Balderdash* no boulders were harmed.
Still no
Huh. Yeah Neelix wasn’t great. Which made me think a little further on it. I wasn’t particularly fond of many of the Voyager crew. For comparison I’m fond of most all the crew from the other shows of roughly the same era, TNG and DS9.
I liked The Doctor, 7 of 9, Tom Paris, and Ensign Kim. Captain Janeway was a badass and I think Kate Mulgrew’s performance in the role was quite good. But didn’t find the character likeable. I did find her character likeable in those… I want to say two episodes where she played her descendant.
You know what? The real world is filled with people like that. On any given day, you might be one. Embrace mediocrity.
The thing about Voyager is all the characters kinda suck but all the actors portraying them were pretty fucking great. Excellent cast; film school writing.
Howling Mad Murdock’s character didn’t suck.
Oh, wow, I used to watch the a-team whenever it would come on at work (overnight office job) but I never even noticed that it’s the same guy who plays Barclay! So he’s just a little bit crazy in all his roles.
Same. Watching Voyager there was always something familiar about the actor. It took many many episodes before it clicked.
Neelix is awesome.
I feel like the more ridiculous a neelix plotline, the better. Cheese premise all the way. Could have gone further with it tho. Maybe the cheese bacteria become horrendously infectious and produce a disgusting disease that incapacitates the crew. Bring that shit into DS9 Ferengi or TNG Q episodes of goof level wackery. I feel like his character was intended to fill a similar niche but they never made him into the chaos goblin he should have been.
Neelix is immune to the cheese infection of course because he’s been eating his own experiments for a while and we get a Neelix-Doctor teamup to save people from the disease. But not before most of the crew turns into an infection vomiting mess of cheese zombies. Neelix gets to show expertise and care in the recovery of his crewmates, as well as regret/pathos for wielding his dangerous culinary powers with abandon
Now I’m imagining if they had somehow managed to cast Robin Williams (RIP) as Neelix!
I didn’t know that Ethan Phillips did that performance while being effectively blind and deaf. Impressive!
In another timeline we would have had Robert Picardo as Neelix. That’s the role he initially auditioned for!
Robert Picardo ended up exactly where he was needed.
“Please state the nature of the acting emergency.”
Robert Picardo even says this
Yup! He was only familiar with TOS and assumed the Spock-type role would go to Tuvok (not an unfair assumption to make).
I want a version where he plays Neelix but his character is otherwise unchanged
Please state the nature of the culinary emergency
Hah, reminds me of the time Bender tried to become a cook on Futurama.
“There was nothing wrong with that food. The salt level was 10% less than a lethal dose.”
“Uh oh, I shouldn’t have had seconds!”
Fuck that. Neelix was the heart of Voyager. Someone had to remind them to live on their way back to their lives.
Associate Producer
DAN SCHNEIDER
Straight up. I love my weird little Adderall-fueled space Hobbit. He rocks. And that episode where he dies and then worries about the afterlife? One of my favorites during my first run!
I know you don’t really mean that, Mr. Vulcan!
Tuvok would never admit it but they’re secretly besties.
Tuvok danced for him on the last episode
Removed by mod
I used to be like this. But after understanding his trauma I grew to tolerate him.
I love the episode where he tries to get a map on the black market and someone dies because of him, all just because he wants to be of use for the crew and is afraid to be thrown out once they enter space he’s not familiar with
Yeah, Neelix was a deeper character than most people give him credit for.
I am currently rewatching voyager and realizing that my previous hate for Neelix was unfounded. He’s not the best, for sure. But he adds a lot to the crew.
HOW DARE YOU SAY THIS ABOUT NEELIX
