After creating a fresh installation of Ubuntu 24.04, I installed DEB Firefox from APT by following Mozilla’s instructions from here. But I noticed that it was secretly replaced with Snap Firefox. I was able to verify this by checking the About Firefox page. This is the third time I noticed this.
From a security standpoint? Not even close. From a software-release validation requirement, not even in the same galaxy. If they look the same, it’s only due to Clarke’s law.
In Ubuntu they are the same.
firefoxversion1:1snap1-0ubuntu5is a deb that literally runs the commandsnap install firefoxin the preinst script. Check line 77 infirefox-1snap1/debian/firefox.preinstin the source tarball: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/1:1snap1-0ubuntu5There’s no magic there.
That is not the same thing as “snap and apt Firefox are the same”. They just hijacked apt to force snap in.
So both commands do the same thing… right? I’m not saying snap and apt are the same in general.
Yeah for sure, I read your comment as excusing canonical screwing with user intent but I see that’s not what you meant.
Yeah, I really dislike snap and have puppet clean it out and add in the real mozilla repo for me. If I wanted sandboxed apps I’d probably look at flatpak but I think there’s still work to be done there also.
You are missing the attribution. The person you are replying to is making a joke that Canonical says they are the same, not that they are actually the same.
Well, yes, except Canonical have made them actually do the same thing in the case of Firefox. I’m not aware of any other packages that have the deb install just run the snap install.
Yep, I am agreeing with you. The statement was never snap and deb are identical, its that canonical is making them do identical things.
Yeah, I just liked that bit of the meme. In the prank the meme is based on, they really are the same.
Chromium too iirc
Yup,
apt install chromium-browsercallssnap install chromium. Looks like thunderbird is the same. There’s a fwupd-snap deb but fwupd seems to be the default.
You are missing the attribution. The person you are replying to is making a joke that Canonical says they are the same, not that they are actually the same.
Clearly they’re cosplaying as a Canonical engineer whose internal explanation and pleas for them to not take this approach fell upon deaf ears /j
Yeah it’s not really a secret
I got a notification about it when I upgraded from 20.04 LTS that they will only serve it as a snap package.
Yes. That was the last straw for me. I switched to debian stable, and haven’t looked back since
Hah! Me too, exactly this.
Me too
Debian will have snaps and flatpaks and all the same insecure black-box drek.
Given how much they violate ISO27002, I can’t see them ever being run in a regs-compliant shop.
I feel like snaps are black boxier tho.
Solve the problem. Drop ubunutu
Definitely not you, they absolutely do this with snaps and have for a while. This was the main reason I stopped using Ubuntu.
At this point, why is anyone using Ubuntu for desktop? You have soooo many options
Unfortunately it’s my only option at work because my employer wants the security of Ubuntu pro
Because not everyone wants to spend their time babysitting an OS and Ubuntu has a 20-year track record of dependability.
While I get that, Debian fits that role extremely well.
I was waiting for this! Debian is great. I used it for years. But IMO it’s not polished enough for normies. The website is fugly and the onboarding funnel assumes too much knowledge. The installer, last time I tried it, was glitchy and unintuitive. I think that techies underestimate how offputting even ostensibly minor issues like this will be to ordinary users. Also, Debian has a ton of unmaintained packages (altho I gather that something is being done about this). Debian is fundamentally amateur in the best and unfortunately worst senses. I think a Linux flagship distro needs to be more pro and systematically thought out. For that, it’s always going to help to have a big company or organization behind it.
The installer, last time I tried it, was glitchy and unintuitive.
I used it a few months ago and it was pretty smooth.
I used it decades ago (using the CLI installer for a Sid install I eventually fucked up beyond repair) and it was okay for a slightly tech savvy teenager, even then.
I suspect a lot of these issues are down to hardware compatibility more than anything else.
I have a laptop that needs a proprietary wifi driver. I just “love” it when the debian net installer works out of the box, but after first boot wifi dies because the driver is missing in the installed instance :D I need to find a lan cable, do some athletics to get to the router, then install the driver and only then I can connect via wifi :D
Was a kubuntu person for a long time, I haven’t really loved the default Ubuntu DE for a while, but that’s personal preferences. At the end of the day, use what you like.
I personally like debian (swapped from Kubuntu over time) but keep mint on my thumb drive for family who needs something on older hardware, especially those used to windows it seems to be an easy jump. I love that there are so many options available to people with various levels of prepackaging and configurations.
And there are still other options!
I’m a relative Linux noob and Manjaro Arch works perfectly for me, no babysitting required.
I agree Ubuntu is the easy choice. You can totally find a desktop you don’t have to baby sit, but Ubuntu has the marketing to help you find them and feel safe.
I’ve had no issues with fedora, I’ve been running it for about a year.
I think fedora is best for user that want a recent kernel and reasonably fast update cycle (like not a year behind) but are not interested in rolling (for whatever reason ever).
I love rolling and had no issues due to rolling yet
Exactly. But I would go further. I think Linux needs flagship distros with big solid institutions behind them, and it needs us to support those distros by using them. I know this is not an popular opinion here.
I see those flagship distros precisely as Fedora and Ubuntu.
Red Hat and Ubuntu.
I’m a bit of an anarchist so I disagree on principal lol, but I do agree that that would help Linux usurp windows.
My fear is that it would just then become windows within a decade or less. Getting big and institutional may work out. I’ve just seen a lot of cases go sour.
To me the beauty of Linux is that it is less connected to large impersonal capitalistic structures. That’s why it feels different from Windows.
There is RedHat and SUSE. Which are also the only two certified distros for running corporate/enterprise CAD/CAM/FEA and PLM software. They both provide rock solid stability.
Not a secret, but annoying as hell. I usually replace it with a Flatpak and uninstall Snap.
Agreed, not a secret, and not wanted. I uninstall Firefox and install Google Chrome from a .deb - disadvantage: you have to update it manually. Advantage: it doesn’t update itself automatically.
Disadvantage: you’re now using a browser from the biggest
spyad-ware company and killed web heterogeneity.Too late, they own my soul already. I have successfully resisted Meta, X, Microsoft, and any number of lesser daemons, but the one true G has shown me their light and I am unable to look away.
Try sunglasses? But maybe other souls can still be saved from evil…
They delivered their promise: they were at least not evil, at first.
Switch to Debian and you’ll be fine :)
I suspect that what’s happened is you installed the apt version, then at some point upgraded it and there was a version in the main repo that had a higher version number and installed the snap version. If two repositories both have a package with the same name, and no other rules in place, the higher version number wins.
If that is the case, you need to pin the firefox package to the mozilla repository. You can find more details here: https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration
This explains situation.
It just occured to me that if you want to use Ubuntu without snap, you could uninstall the snap package itself (I’m not on Ubuntu, so you might need to find it), then put a ‘hold’ on the package to prevent it being reinstalled. That should, in turn, prevent any package versions that use snap from being installed.
Initially uninstalling snap might require removing any packages that use it, but that’ll tell you what you need non-snap versions of.
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This is why i switched to Debian. It’s 99% of Ubuntu, without the crap.
I… I… I don’t know why I haven’t done that myself. (Am now on NixOS btw) but for work maybe I ask for Debian cloud box.
For work, you could also try Fedora Workstation or Linux Mint Debian Edition. Debian is pretty barebones, but if that isnt a bother then do whatever.
I like gnome, but i guess i could look at fedora.
I would like to stay with apt as package manager so the package names stay the same to what I know, or is yum/dnf/etc gonna use the same for most?
Mostly the same, and if not all it has taken for me to figure it out was searching “fedora $pkgname”
I must have hit that 1% last time. I assembled a new PC, wanted to install debian and could not get a login screen after installation. At that point I wanted something that just works. I installed Xubuntu and had the machine ready right away.
Yup. They also did this with Docker, and it broke my setup (and was a bitch to debug).
This was a couple of years ago, and I haven’t used Ubuntu unless absolutely necessary (and then usually in a container).
Docker in a snap is too meta for me.
My work cannot manage permissions well so I cannot remove snap Firefox cos its in use by another user.
Meanwhile current snap version of Firefox is crashing on my profile
For awhile I was getting firefox crashes in Mint all the time. Turns out it was the snap version being unstable.
How did you get snap on mint?! 😆I once tried it as a noob and mint was always “snap bad! Don’t do this! You will regret” even on try to circumvent it 🤣
I swear it was the default already installed. Maybe I’m misremembering.
Mint never preinstalled the snap. They package their own version of Firefox. I believe they have an agreement with Mozilla.
Maybe it was that i had to install the snap version (or maybe flatpak?) and uninstall theirs, which fixed the crashes. I thought it was a hardware issue for awhile because it was so random.
Why even enable snaps? It’s like asking to have headaches.
I’ve had it happen too. In fact it is what prompted me to move away from Kubuntu.
I suggest Mint or straight Debian. I prefer Mint for anything graphical, Debian for headless
What benifit does Mint have over Debian for anything graphical?
