OF COURSE this doesn’t apply to the UK, giving me yet another reason to wish kidney stones upon the architects of Brexit.
I’m pretty sure the haunted Victorian pencil that is Jacob Rees-Mogg said that the UK not having universal USB-C was a “Brexit benefit”. God help us all.
Yeah but he only says that sort of thing because he thinks that anything to electronic is voodoo magic.
It is a benefit though.
For the corporations that want to force users to buy their proprietary cables. To them it is a gold mine!
…THE ARISTOCRATS!
did i do it right?
“So there’s this family of Tories, right, and they walk into a theatre…”
I mean, I’m sure they sell Android phones in the UK. Why do you buy Apple products if you are aware of their monopolistic practices that have to be battled with legislation?
not OP, but for me, using an iPhone and wishing it had a few features android had feels a lot better than using android and wishing it had features iOS does. It’s not like they both don’t participate in monopolistic practices
The fuck would I want to actively give all that data to Google for?
Also, I’ve blagged a couple of fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit to set up when compared to an iPad. There’s all the stock Google apps, and all the stock Samsung apps that offer the same fucking features, and they keep bugging you to set them up.
Nah mate, fuck using Android. All power to those who do, but it’s not my bag.
it’s funny how you think that Apple isn’t recollecting your data. It seems like their marketing is effective.
fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit
Can’t argue with that, Samsung is absolute shit. Never used a tablet tho, so I can’t comment on that.
The nicest part of Android is that it’s open source and therefore the community makes Android builds that aren’t plagued with spyware or any corporate bullshit.
I have been looking at alternatives to Android, but the range of hardware that supports it is currently fairly limited.
The fuck would I want to actively give all that data to Google for?
Heard of GrapheneOS on the Pixel line? “GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility developed as a non-profit open source project.” https://grapheneos.org/
fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit to set up when compared to an iPad. There’s all the stock Google apps, and all the stock Samsung apps that offer the same fucking features, and they keep bugging you to set them up.
Samsung is not the best manufacturer, plus you said old. Either one is bad, but that’s a terrible combo. And all the Google apps and OEM bloatware is fixed (gone) with a deGoogled OS like Graphene’s.
That way Firefox has to submit a different app for Europe, splitting its userbase and making it more complicated for developers. They are pulling every trick they can…
True, but Firefox has a loyal fanbase.
I remember the day Firefox came out… It will always hold a special place in my heart.
I remember Phoenix.
If this was worldwide it would be the same amount QA work. The new rendering engine is the only thing worth paying attention to.
Almost no one is going to spend time QAing non-European Firefox. Outside of Europe it is basically just a glorified Safari WebView.
Crapple at it again
I think it will be an interesting experiment to see the impact of allowing other rendering engines. If the sky doesn’t fall, Apple doesn’t have a lot to argue with.
Safari will still have more than 90% of the market share in iOS. Most Apple users don’t care or are fully unaware of this.
Google will shove Chrome ads everywhere and get some users.
True. But that’s irrelevant to my curiosity.
Most iPhone users use Chrome even tough it’s just Safari but from Google. Google will just update the EU version to use Chromium and the in users will notice nothing.
Most iPhone users definitely don’t use chrome
I’m crossing my fingers that there’s a way around this in non EU regions. Maybe there’ll be a simple exploit.
Have you considered moving to an EU member state? 😉
The only way Apple can make good changes is if the EU forces them to make good changes.
Apple can be so laughably pathetic at times
Other than creating the M1/M2 CPUs, when in the last 20 years haven’t they been? Fuck apple.
The unibody MBPs were solid for the most part. From 2008 to 2012 Apple actually made really good, decently priced, upgradeable, virtually indestructible Unix workstations; I’ll give them that.
Too bad they then made the Retina generation of MBPs, which dropped most of what made the unibodies great and turned them from Unix workhorses to overpriced prosumer devices. And that’s where they lived ever since.
They absolutely unfucked it with the 16" M1 though
Not in my opinion. The ports are barely adequate and I think neither RAM nor storage are user-upgradeable. The silicon is nice, yes, and they got rid of the touch bar. But I still think it’s forcing too many tradeoffs to be worth it. (And, as usual, their base storage is tiny and their SSD upgrades are way overpriced. Hence the lack of internal slots is a real pain.)
Except it’s also not upgradable so you’re still screwed when inevitably you find that the six megabytes of RAM they’ve given you aren’t enough
A 4-year period, 14 years ago…? That’s actually pathetic.
The preceding ones (iBooks, MacBooks, and aluminum MBPs) were okay for their time as well but not at the same level as the unibodies. Still, it’s been a long time since Apple hardware was worth getting excited about.
Mind you, this is purely from a computer perspective. I never cared about their phones so I don’t know how their quality holds up. I do acknowledge that they’re unbeatable in terms of duration of support, though.
I liked when they wrote a letter to the federal government telling them to fuck off with their backdoor request.
Yet they preemptively pass on data from Chinese users over to the government to save „business interests“
Business over customer privacy: capitalism breeds enshittification. These companies are not our friends…
those CPUs just happen to have a huge marketing budget behind and a very loyal fanbase. They aren’t anything revolutionary. Sure, more battery life. In terms of daily usage, the difference with a high end AMD or Intel CPU is unnoticeable other than having a shiny apple on the back of your laptop.
I moved from the last Intel i9 15’ mbp to a 14" m1 pro machine for work and the difference is stark. The m1 pro is significantly faster in both everyday tasks and code compile than the (now older) i9. It is also completely silent where the Intel machine will turn the fans on constantly even for light tasks. The m1 also has more than double or triple the battery life, allowing me to easily finish an entire day without plugging in, where the Intel one will doe within 2-4 hours depending on workload. I don’t even really have to think about it. Overall the m1 is a significantly better machine. Intel is just starting to catch up with their core ultra cpus but I haven’t used those yet personally.
Apple are assholes but the m1 chips turned out great.
Well I went from an Intel to m1 (work) MacBook and the difference was quite stark. Even at times feels as fast as my home desktop, which is beefy.
Those AMD and Intel chips drew a lot more power though. That said, AMD’s Z1 Extreme looks very promising and shows that AMD can compete in the same ballpark or even surpass. It’s just a matter of waiting for laptops to adopt it.
Lol
I’ve got a 13" M1 MBP about 2 years ago and I wanted to test it’s power after I set it up. I loaded up Final Cut Pro, got to work editing a 15ish minute 1440p video with a lot of elements to it. The render time was about 3 minutes, which is on par or faster than my 5950x/3090 K|ngp|n desktop, and the fans didn’t even turn on. It’s not over hype. M2, sure I can agree since it was marginal uplift over M1. I’m not even an Apple fanboy, but that M1 chip is damn good for an off the shelf workstation.
Oh my god just let me use my fucking Firefox plugins, Apple. 😑
I wonder if this move will change that, at least in the EU?
I got so excited for the headline until I saw the parentheses 😭
Same. Overall, I’m happy with my iPhone, but not having an actual browser with an actual ad blocker (uBlock Origins) is really painful. I’ve had to live with ProtonVPN’s ad blocking, but that only prevents sites from loading, it doesn’t hide the actual ad links…
AdGuard is a solid ad blocker for Safari. Not quite uBlock Origin level, but close.
Maybe, but Safari has a dogshit UI and I much prefer Firefox over it. I despise the fact that they don’t let other browsers use their extensions, though (even though they’re forced to reskin Safari). I’d install AdGuard on Firefox if I could.
I actually find the bottom bar pretty great.
But you can actually switch between two layouts in the Settings app. Maybe you like the other option better?
Firefox has a bottom bar as well
Yeah, was just asking whether the commenter was aware there was a setting for this as it’s in the Settings app, not in Safari itself.
I still prefer Safari’s version though, swiping between tabs is pretty great.
Orion browser
I use 1Blocker for which I bought the lifetime license on my iOS Safari, as well as adGuard DNS blocking running on my OpnSense at home (WireGuard automatically connects my phone to my home network via VPN as soon as I leave my WiFi)
It perplexes me that people choose to use a platform which won’t let even let them choose how a browser works.
Main problem is that Android sucks too. The mobile OS market is a burning dumpster fire controlled by two of the biggest companies in the world.
My point is I use arch btw and I’d like to do so on my phone as well. (With it still being practical)Android is far more free than iOS, and it’s based on open source so pretty easy to remove all Google stuff if you care about it. But by default you can side load whatever you want.
That’s true and pretty cool and I will always choose Android over iOS, but it’s still a bad system. I want a phone architecture where I can just slap an OS on there like it’s a PC and upgrade to new versions until the hardware craps out. But I can’t
You can install alternative android distros on an android phone that will keep updating long after the manufacturer has stopped. For example lineage OS which supports lots of devices (but not all).
There are also Linux distros targeted to mobile devices.
You just need to pick a device that is supported when buying.
Gentoo can work on some phones. Maybe arch can too.
Have you considered the PinePhone (Pro)?
For me, iOS works substantially better at my employer. At the end of the day, it’s better for some enterprise integration. I wish it was different, but this is probably true for many. EDIT: I’d choose Android if my employer supported it enough to do my job effectively. :(
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I straight up don’t talk about Apple or Windows on lemmy, it’s toxic as fuck. Nice chilling effect with downvoting literally anything that’s more positive than “I hate it”
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In general I have a great time here. I only visit Reddit for niche topics maybe once or twice a week. However, here’s some topics I just don’t comment on because the responses I see others get.
Downvotes on Lemmy do even less than on reddit. Some people use it as a general “disagree but too lazy to reply” button. You could just look up who voted on ActivityPub though, so votes aren’t anonymous.
Lol, I have a Tesla and enjoy Google and all(most) of the their products. Lemmy is unhinged about these things.
I found the opposite I love the way the work profile functions on Android. It’s logically separated (even to the point you can have VPN setup for just work apps) and you can enable and disable all work apps from a quick settings tile as well as schedule it to turn on and off at certain times.
Oh 100%, I look at it with envy when I see reviews lol. My work doesn’t have an MDM implementation that’s compatible with that on Android. I took some inspiration from it on my iOS focus modes but it’s not the same. The way my employer has it setup, the calendar and email only work through specific apps on Android instead of device intention like native calendar and email, which inhibits push and exchange. “The shitty boxer app didn’t notify me” isn’t a good enough excuse :/ … okay end of complaining.
That sucks you guys can’t get an mdm up and going but it’s not free I don’t believe so it makes sense for smaller companies. I think there is a way to do a sort of homebrew work profile using Tasker or similar automation app to control it.
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This only in the EU thing is going to bite them in the ass hard. You’re going to get App developers pretending to operate in the EU or moving there just to have more creative freedom.
Users will also find ways of doing the exact same. You can’t have one rule for one group of people and different rules for everyone else.
They may eventually get dragged there kicking and screaming but will milk consumers in other markets for every penny they can before that happens
Just a wild guess, but I think Apple is fully aware of this. They are intentionally keeping it separate to set a precedence that they will not bend over and let EU dictate and for the rest of the world to reap the benefit. Same with their decision to fine users for sideloading. They know it’s a losing battle they are just trying to make it as difficult as possible.
Most developers won’t pretend they operate in the EU because that would likely result in account loss. As for anyone actually moving there for this, I highly doubt it. Most developers who distribute on the App Store are looking for profit, not creativity. Trying to go around Apple for this sounds like risking those profits.
Furthermore the European versions won’t be available outside of Europe so if anyone wants to keep their existing non-European users, they’d have to maintain two versions. That’s extra work and unless there’s some significant profit unlocked by the European changes, the most likely scenario is that developers would stick to whatever’s allowed worldwide. Which is likely Apple’s goal - comply with the regulation, while making it sufficiently undesirable for developers to change anything.
You can’t have one rule for one group of people and different rules for everyone else.
“In the name of the greatest smartphone that have ever graced this earth, we draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and say separate rules now, separate rules tomorrow, separate rules forever.” -Apple, probably
Sounds awfully lot like ‘divide and conquer’. Where have I heard that before?
It’s my humorous manipulation of famous quote by George Wallace regarding segregation in the US. Here’s the original:
“In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.” -George Wallace, infamous racists prick
You can read all about his descent into racist madness here:
(It is quite interesting how he changed over time… Almost like regularly spending time with racists–who you view as close friends–can lead to absorbing racist views)
Mozilla itself lashed out at this decision, as it means they have to maintain both Gecko (for EU) and WebKit (for everybody else) editions of the browser.
This is, in essence, malicious compliance.
What has the EU ever done for us?
Is this supposed to be sarcastic or something?
Considering it’s a reference to Monty Python’s Life of Brian, I’m gonna go with yes.
Ok, apart from human rights, workers rights, rebalancing funds to poorer regions, free trade, free movement, a voice at the table, straight bananas, peace in Europe, and endless examples of consumer rights, what has the EU done for us?!
What about the straightening of cucumbers? And regulating the amount of cinnamon in baked goods? And the GDPR? And trying to take away the red sprinkles on my liquorice pipes?
What the reasons behind the amount of cinnamonin baked stuff?
The limit is not on cinnamon but coumarin. Which means that if you want to put a lot of cinnamon in stuff you have to use the good stuff (Ceylon), not the cheap knockoff (Cassia), where a single teaspoon of powder can exceed the maximum recommended daily dose of coumarin (for flyweights or just generally small people). If you’re in the supermarket and it doesn’t say which type of cinnamon it is, it’s bound to be Cassia. When buying straight bark (not powder): Cassia will be thick, rolled pieces, while Ceylon is thin pieces rolled up into each other.
In practice it was mostly a seasonal issue, e.g. Zimtsterne contain ludicrous amounts of cinnamon and you try telling a kid it can only have one.
And while I’m at it, the cucumber saga: Like with many such things it was the industry who asked for a EU regulation as previously there were differing national standards and they couldn’t readily agree on a uniform one. Long story short if growers grow cucumbers straight (not hard) and to a certain size (also not hard), then a certain amount will fit into a standard box, which will have an approximately uniform weight, and a certain amount of those boxes fit onto a standard euro pallet of which a certain amount fit onto a standard lorry bed. Thus, “I’d like to buy a lorry load of cucumbers” is something that makes sense, supermarkets know how many cucumbers they’re going to get and they can sell them by piece, not by weight, and everything works out.
The Aqueduct?
Probably more directly referencing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
Fear, uncertainty and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a manipulative propaganda tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, polling and cults. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information, and is a manifestation of the appeal to fear.
I thought you meant this:
Microsoft insisted that Internet Explorer (IE) was not a product but a feature that it was allowed to add to Windows, although the DOJ did not agree with this definition.[6]
The government alleged that Microsoft had abused monopoly power on Intel-based personal computers in its handling of operating system and web browser integration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
Also in the EU:
Under the commitments approved by the Commission, Microsoft will make available for five years in the European Economic Area (through the Windows Update mechanism) a “Choice Screen” enabling users of Windows XP, Windows Vista and Windows 7 to choose which web browser(s) they want to install in addition to, or instead of, Microsoft’s browser Internet Explorer.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_09_1941
Please let this come to the US. Safari (WebKit) is so far behind.
In what ways?
If safari was a great browser, I don’t think apple would fear competition to the point of fully banning it wherever possible
I haven’t had problems. I would just like to be educated on what I’m missing out on.
Well web developers are the ones typically suffering since are the ones papering over the mess that is safari
Functioning ad block, background video playback, to name two extensions that are very useful on mobile.
I have both of those capabilities right now and I have for a very, very long time.
Ah, I didn’t know that was possible. I don’t think it was last time I used iPhone circa 2019 or so.
When I left android, I was jailbreaking on iOS, so generally had all of those features, but funny enough probably about right when you left extensions, VPN ad blockers, etc. came out. Officially and polished.
Safari is a great browser, especially in terms of performance and energy efficiency. Aside from adblockers what exactly does chrome/ff do better?
Debugging (without a MacBook). Webgl 2. WebXR. Local storage not being completely gimped. I’m glad I don’t work in that industry anymore, Safari was the bane of my existence…
Good web standards are a threat to the app store (particularly anything to do with ARKit) - not like 3rd party browsers are likely to change that much with the majority of users sticking to defaults, but it might apply some pressure
Every other browser except IE has supported web standards more quickly and more fully. Safari is trash.
If I could just use my desktop Firefox Plugins I would be happy.
Ublock Origin, I Still Don’t Care About Cookies, and SponsorBlock make the web far more pleasant on my desktop than on my phone.
Which ones are you needing? For Adblock I block using VPN, similar to setting up a pihole. I’ve found replacements for most of what I do use elsewhere. Some working even better then the desktop counterparts.
I have a pihole at home so it’s really when I am out and about but I’ll check out VPN offerings. The last time I used a vpn it really hit my battery hard but maybe it’s better now. Other than that it’s just the plugins to get rid of the cookie screens and additional YouTube ads.
Same that’s what I want out of this as well
Mostly in everything that has to do with PWAs. It’s gotten better since they introduced Web Push last year, but there’s still a lot of things it doesn’t support, like Web Bluetooth, AV1 (except for devices with hardware decoders like the 15th gen Pro iPhones), and things like mobile sensor inputs.
But also in how bad its rendering engine is. Things that work on every other platform render super weird in WebKit.
Thanks. Do you have an example of the super weird rendering? Also are none of what you’re saying here togglable in the WebKit Feature Flags to mess around with bleeding edge features?
Every time I want to use a new feature of web browsers, if support stops me from doing so, it’s always safari to blame.
What was that last or current feature you’re missing out on and what’s the use case?
Besides rendering bugs that may or may not be Safari’s fault, I wanted to get uBlock Origin on an iPhone but it’s not available, IIRC because the content blocking API is more restrictive than what uBlock is designed for.
I really can’t remember an example off the top of my head. Over the last 5 years it’s probably been an issue more than 20 times.
I’m telling you my experience as a web developer for the last 20+ years. If you want specific examples, you could look online. I’ll tell you my SVG icons sometimes don’t work in mobile Safari and I have no idea why. They work 100% of the time in every other platform. I also have to do weird things to get the safe viewport measurements to work in my PWA, again, only in mobile Safari.
I’ll tell you what, you try asking customers to go toggle a feature flag and tell me how that works out.
Safari is almost always the last browser to adopt a standard, often times years after it’s been standardized. And don’t tell me it’s because they take their time to get it right, because their rollout of Web Push was atrocious.
Sounds like a skill issue xD
Skill doesn’t matter at all if Safari doesn’t support the API.
OK you’re speaking from a completely different point of view then. I was more curious about what I would be missing out on using Safari right now. Definitely not thinking about how a project I paid somebody to create is going to render.
You’re missing out on the things people can’t create because Safari is holding the industry back. Just because it’s not a user facing problem doesn’t mean you’re not affected as a user.
I hear you and understand where you’re coming from now. It just doesn’t help me visualize anything.
For example, my D&D group uses Virtual Table Top software to play. The software can’t run on Safari. (don’t ask me why, I’m just a user)
Interesting. What’s the software?
Foundry vtt
How will that work? Firefox is gonna maintain two different builds?
Three, technically:
- Firefox for Android
- Firefox for iOS EU
- Firefox for iOS US
There’s also Firefox Beta, Nightly and Focus.
Not at all the same. These are three outputs from the same build process and code base. Maintaining a build with WebKit and one with Mozilla’s own rendering engine is like running a different team.
It’s almost as if Apple is making this difficult.
same build process and code base.
It’s not the same code base though. They’re all different branches, and also differ in code (although not by much, but it still requires manual maintenance of each branch). I haven’t seen the actual build process but it’s likely to be completely separate CI/CD pipelines, so I wouldn’t claim it to be the “same” build process either. Also, Focus uses a completely different UI with a different/cut-down set of features.
Naturally I’m not saying that maintaining these branches amounts to the same level of effort as maintaining the iOS WebKit and Gecko branches, but it’s not some non-trivial effort either.
It doesn’t have to be separate branches - you can generate different versions of the software from the same code branch, e.g. using compiler/build time switches for those bits of the code that differ between the different target platforms. Then you would have a build pipeline per platform; even here the build pipeline can share a lot of common code, and just be parameterized for the specific platform.
I didn’t realise Focus was a unique feature set. My apologies. I maintain my original comment on Nightly and Beta - if they aren’t using (almost) the same CI/CD pipeline, doesn’t it sort of defeat the purpose of each of these builds being a maturation towards a stable build? I’ve certainly never deployed software with a “daily/beta/stable” branch/feature-flag structure that wasn’t attempting to replicate the build process, with a view to catching issues upstream/pre-stable.
Lets not make this out to be like it’s Kerberos (more complicated than rocket science)… Making available another, region-specific version of your app isn’t difficult. It’s just the developer equivalent of an extra one-time TPS report (you have to setup/modify some build scripts and make some additional tests).
It’s the equivalent of having builds for .rpm and .deb and then adding a .AppImage build. It shouldn’t be that big a deal for the Mozilla Firefox team.
In fact, I bet they’re freaking excited at the prospect of being able to make a real build of Firefox for iOS.
ah yes, there is only iOS EU and US
c/usdefaultism
Misspelled feudalism?
You’re completely right. It should be US and Not-US. /s
fennce f-droid is also an official build.Edit: it is not… https://gitlab.com/relan/fennecbuild
Not completely official, no. Mozilla may help with it, but since it doesn’t carry the Firefox branding, and isn’t built by Mozilla, it’s not entirely official.
Nobody will maintain any builds, because the restrictions are still ludicrous. Most people in the comments are missing the point entirely.
That’s what I thought. I’m just waiting for an official Mozilla reply.
Maybe same, but those outside EU will have some functions/ featlrures deactivated as standard.
Can that work?
Everyone should just move to the EU at this rate
Apple forcing WebKit on its mobile devices is one of the few things stopping Chrome’s dominance on web standards. It controls the majority of the market. As well as most browsers that aren’t chrome are using chrome’s web engine such as Edge, brave, vilvaldi, opera, kiwi, Samsung web browser, electron etc.
This move is good for Firefox, and good for making web technologies more accessible.
However, it makes it easier for Google to force their vision for the future of the web. Now Google can push it’s browser on to iOS users as a solution to web pages not rendering correctly in WebKit. Rather than being forced to adopt and implement common web standards that safari and Firefox also follow.
The best solution would be forcing all significant platforms to allow alternative browser engines (include iPads) and start to consider punishing websites that don’t fully support all major browser engines. Such as safari, chrome and Firefox.
WebKit is chromium basically. Or chromium is webkit. You get the idea.
If crapple wasn’t so anti-consumer, EU wouldn’t create law in first place.
Yeah, this is part of the big issue with chrome being internet explorer for this generation.
Chrome forking WebKit has the dog wagging the tail. Apple need to follow chrome’s web ‘standards’, else they break compatibility. As well as the billions Google give Apple every year, no doubts influences their implementation of safari.
But this change means Chrome can stray further from WebKit and use this change to get people using chrome on apple devices.
The best thing for the future of the web is to use Firefox and boycott websites that don’t support it. If another new browser technology comes about that too would be worth supporting.
Or EU move to everyone. I wouldn’t mind, EU is much better than bunker rat.
Maybe declare war on the EU and then surrender?
The fact chromium based browser are going to be allowed as well makes me nervous.
Isn’t this what everyone wanted though? The freedom to choose browsers? Or are we going to start mandating Gecko because that’s what everyone here believes to be the most ethical?
From an idealistical point of view, sure freedom of choice is the way to go.
What makes me nervous is that Safari has been the only big player left besides chrome in regard to usage share on mobile. So while from an idealistical point of view the ban of other engines was certainly a bad thing, it still helped to prevent google from extending its monopoly.
True, but if we’re have to have a monopoly of browsers, I’d prefer that the monopoly browsers were actually based on a good engine, rather than one based on an engine that falls over if you look at it.
That is a reason that no one on Mac uses Safari
Lol, WTF!
