I get Marie Kondo means well when she suggests to get rid of things that don’t make you feel joy, it just feels kinda tone deaf for what I assume is a good percentage of underprivileged people in the US and elsewhere in the world who can’t afford to get better things. You have to be wealthy enough to throw away whatever things you feel “meh” about.
It’s only a good organization and cleaning tip if you can afford doing it.
She’s trying to help people surrounded by junk and unhappy about it. It’s not that deep.
She’s not telling orphans to only keep their favourite toy.
While I always want to encourage people to think deeply and recursively ask why all the way into and through their adulthood, I agree with the framing. If you don’t have enough, joy probably has the wrong connotation. The complimentary crackers at a diner spark a different frequency of joy.
Her book was specifically tailored to someone who feels congested and spiritually blunted by having piles of things that have lost the ability to give purpose to you or the people around you. Like a section of the stuff that doesn’t spark joy is in the giveaway pile where it can be given new purpose.
Like a section of the stuff that doesn’t spark joy is in the giveaway pile where it can be given new purpose.
There’s people letting go of stuff and people who need that stuff. The answer for both is mutual aid! :)
I wasn’t thinking of how to connect my question to the solution of mutual aid, but it’s really a natural answer on how to address the problem of material needs.
If Marie Kondo really wants extra joy sparked, she could learn and teach people about mutual aid to touch more lives.
I think it’s not a matter of deep vs not deep but just a matter of trying to consider a more charitable interpretation and weigh it against the uncharitable one to see which is justified rather than say the vibes are off and give the hostile interpretation without any further consideration.
Not that I exactly love Kondo’s work, I just think it’s a matter of due dillogence.
She seems very sweet. I asked this question knowing I’m the one with feelings that might not totally apply to facts. I’m personally learning to get rid of things, but I decided I’d acknowledge my past self who didn’t have much access to new things. It used to sting to try to fit her advice in my life and be unable to. This is more an acknowledgement post to those who have too little to toss things the way she suggests. I like her advice, I just wish she would take the time to say, “If you can’t follow my advice now due to having too little, it’s okay you will get there.”
If it makes sense, it’s not a hostile thing towards her. It’s a grief post for all the people who are hurting too much from having too little to follow her otherwise genuinely good advice.
There are several things one could say, for example: “tone deaf” to who? People who aren’t her intended audience seemingly by your own account? She’s writing for people who have a specific kind of problem. Advice on how to eat more is not “tone deaf” because some people need to eat less (or the reverse).
But I think that’s missing a greater point that her advice, if one accepts it being good advice to some people to begin with, can very easily apply to poor people as well. Fundamentally, what she’s talking about is like sub-clinical hoarding, and poor people can and sometimes do have houses just as full of trash as middle class people. I’ve known multiple people like this and am liable to end up like this myself before long, and I always need to tell myself that if I am only holding on to something because it hurts to get rid of but I have no real use for it, I need to get rid of it or I will entombed myself further. It doesn’t need to be a shitty knickknack, it can be torn clothes or an old newspaper clipping or something. Despite my having just said I don’t like her work, you can see the applicability, right?
Advice on how to eat more is not “tone deaf” because some people need to eat less (or the reverse).
I get what you mean, pretty much any advice is tone deaf when applied to the wrong situation. She was not tone deaf even if it felt tone deaf. It stings when I think of previous parts of my life when it didn’t apply to me but now it can. Being able to follow her advice just a little bit makes me face the sadness and habits that is the life where I couldn’t follow it.
Yeah, she was basically made for middle class viewers and their worries. I think part of her success was the timing being along side the absolute wave of hoarders shows, so she was like a mystical figure bringing esoteric, Asian knowledge about ideas like ‘joy’ and ‘not having shit in the way all the time’ as a way to ward off catching being a hoarder
Hoarding can be a thing at any income bracket.
Some hoarders keep literal garbage, plastic wrapping and empty food containers and the like.
Her point is more if a thing serves no purpose and then beyond that brings no joy, why keep it around? It isn’t to be wasteful, it is to be pragmatic.
anti-hoarding arguments work best when the price of literally everything didn’t just double
Please explain what the plastic wrapper for the package of napkins you bought is good for. A hoarder will hold on to that while you and I will see it as the refuse it is. Unless you’re that destitute that such a find in the trash is actually useful to you, which I sincerely doubt.
Its amazing that one can explain something rather plainly in terms of real need/no need and still be argued with over meaningless minutiae like prices.
Hoarders don’t factor reality into the situation, they hold on to everything in the most literally unhealthy way possible. Like, actually physically dangerous due to pestilent filth/dangerous piles under which a human can easily be crushed, monetary value playing zero role in the decision.
yes but hoarding of this caliber is also a mental illness that cannot be solved with scolding or pithy remarks about throwing out what doesn’t bring joy. Kondo isn’t helping any hoarders, nor is anyone who is rationally arguing the value of this or that. None of that has anything to do with their fixations and habits.
Kondo is for the typical middle-class person who has some junk in storage they have been holding onto too long, not for hoarders of the type that keep around piles of refuse.
This is the bit I didn’t say, yes.
Please explain what the plastic wrapper for the package of napkins you bought is good for.
You just need a heat sealer and most plastic wrapping becomes reusable. And there are plenty of things that would benefit from rewrapping them in plastic.
Please explain what the plastic wrapper for the package of napkins you bought is good for.
literally a free bag
She’s definitely speaking to a certain middle class segment that tends to accrue. I do think that, slightly modified, her advice could become proactive - like, don’t spend money/credit on something in the first place unless you’re sure it will “spark joy”. Just spitballing on that one.
I dunno I’ve known relatively impoverished people with a fuckton of stuff and it made them so disorganized and a bit unhygienic (like unhealthy physically). Accumulating a lot of stuff is pretty easy for anyone with the space to put it in.
Sometimes I feel like this site has moderate to serious bean soup syndrome
stuff needs to not be presented as being for everyone if we’re not meant to take it as being meant for everyone
I don’t have a lot of money, but I come from a horder family and we can keep things that we seriously don’t need. So it’s helped me in that regard.
Also as far as America is concerned, certain types of poverty can mean you actually have a lot of shit around because of the poverty.
When someone is in long positions of poverty it rewrites the brain. It becomes a lot easier to purchase whatever you can afford that gives you a little dopamine. Then on top of that you then can have a hard time throwing it away because “well what if I need this and I can’t afford it in the future?” Which works great for things like parts, medicine, etc but not so much for toys, nitnacks, etc. There is a reason there is the depiction of the poor person who lives in a junk pile. Abuse Victems can also go through this.
So the “spark joy” can be be poorly worded but there are times but there are times when it’s good to asses if you actually need something or if you just think you might.
Basically there is some nuance there depending on situations.
Gonna add this.
Being cash poor might encourage you to keep half broken things around… “just in case” some future moment might find it useful.
I have 3 broken spares of a particular item because I know I can probably fix my working one with them if it ever breaks. In 5 years it has never broken but I won’t have to spend any money if it ever does. So I have… 3 broken items just taking up space
I think it’s more about, like, throwing out old clothing that you don’t wear anymore, not luxurifying your belongings
I know I’m the wrong audience for it because I’m depressed and very few physical objects ever make me happy (and also I’m poor and can’t buy things, and also I’ve been forced to move constantly to be able to afford ever rising rents so I end up being forced to consider my possessions pretty frequently). But yeah I’ve never understood the sentiment. I’m surrounded by objects that I need to survive and live my life that don’t spark joy. Like I’m not going to throw away my fridge, I need that regardless of my happiness towards it.
The much more useful tip I’ve heard that did jive with my experiences is “If this got poop on it, would you clean it off or just throw it away?” And I gotta say, most of the things I own pass the test.
The much more useful tip I’ve heard that did jive with my experiences is “If this got poop on it, would you clean it off or just throw it away?”
This is actually useful advice lol
Right? It’s much more clear and concise!
Theres an old receipt thats been laying on top of of a drawer for 4 years and for some reason it sparks joy. Thats it spot, I like it being there. I dont even have the product anymore.
I love that for you.
There’s an old cheeseburger wrapper lying on the floor next to my sofa. That’s its spot, I like it being there
I wouldn’t throw that away, what if it’s unopened???
It’s vintage. My parents got it on the day of my birth, and it’s been appreciating in value. My dad took a bite out of it when I turned 18 and I haven’t seen him since. I’m waiting for the day my own kid turns 18 now
*throws away certificate of nationality*
“This one doesn’t spark joy”
My boss does not spark joy. Now I know what to do, thanks Marie Kondo!
Same. So much “advice” falls flat because you need a certain level of privilege for that to apply to you, even if it would work in that situation.
This might be the reason why I don’t enjoy that youtuber I always watch that’s always talking about what and how to do with your boat and stuff
