The title is a bit misleading, as the article lists diverging analysts’ opinions, ranging from Valve willing to sell at a loss or low margins, to high prices due to RAM and SSD price volatility.
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blackeco.com/post/2330473
It’s likely in everybody’s best interest that this is a wild success. Not only will game developers be incentivized to actually optimize their games for reasonable setups; this will unseat Nvidia’s monopoly over gamers with their ridiculously overpriced graphics cards and also Microsoft’s monopoly of a gamer’s operating system.
Nvidia’s partnership with Palantir is incredibly concerning and any blow to Nvidia is a welcome one. Encourage these developments and hype this all up.
Holy crap I’d forgotten about that.
Yeah, nvidia needs to die. Nothing tied to palantir should survive.
Yaaas let’s smash the Nvidia monopoly and Palantir’s evil plans.
People seriously underestimate the performance that you can pull out from some medium-level hardware with an highly-optimized OS. I mean, just watch what they were able to archive with the Deck.
Seriously! Just started replaying cyberpunk on my base model deck and it is buttery smooth! Very impressive for an igpu!
Yes, but also consider you are running a more updated, optimized version of Cyberpunk than what everyone experienced when it first launched (and more optimized drivers/FSR/etc). So the true performance gains of mid-low range hardware is masked by the fact that the game is not so horribly unoptimized anymore.
In other words, the actual performance increase of hardware over the years is perceived to be higher than it actually is due to other factors.
But the existence of a steam machine would incentivize releasing games in this kind of optimized state.
You can’t optimize “for pc” because “pc” could mean any configuration of components. Obviously you can optimize, but you can’t “target”, you can’t say “we got it running at 60 fps stable on ‘’pc’.
You can “optimize” for a pre defined steam machine. You can say “we got it running at 60fps stable on the stock steam machine”
So the problem was the game, not the device…? The hardware was fine?
Valve willing to sell at a loss
I don’t think that Valve will sell the Steam Machine at a loss.
Closed-system console vendors often do, then jack up the prices of their games and make their money back as people buy games. So why not Valve?
Two reasons.
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They sell an open system. If Valve sells a mini-PC below cost, then a number of people will just buy the thing and use it as a generic mini-PC, which doesn’t make them anything. A Nintendo Switch, in contrast, isn’t very appealing for anything than running games purchased from Nintendo.
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They don’t have a practical way to charge more for games for just Steam Machine users — their model is agnostic to what device you run a purchased game on. So even if they were going to do that, it’d force them to price games non-optimally for non-Steam-Machine users, charge more than would be ideal from Valve’s standpoint.
While I think you’re ultimately right, 6 years ago I would have said the same thing about the Steam Deck idea, so I’m compelled to offer counterpoints.
Valve, very uniquely, does offer the best Linux-based digital games storefront to use on that Linux gaming PC you bought. So, they’re very much positioned to take advantage of the hardware purchase. Users aren’t “locked in”, but they are compelled in, and users may have a smoother time getting games on Steam than trying to set up controller-based launchers on Heroic or something.
It’s like when the pet isn’t literally fenced into the house, and is allowed to roam free, but is reminded that its fluffy toy and warm meals are all back at home, so it’ll never go far.
Valve also might just be more forward-thinking than
most game companiesmost COMPANIES these days. They build goodwill this way and get people obsessed with their brand by having more wins like this.GABECUBE > anything from anyone. I have good faith in Steam. Besides Arizona drinks and Costco food court there really is no other corporation I want to give money to if I can help it. * I do wish they’d have flash sales during the sale events again. Where you could get a new game for $10 for 10 minutes. People hate the launcher but Epic is closer to my heart than Microsoft or Sony too.
Hah, this is where they get you and I’ve been dogpiled for raising this as an issue continuously. This is an illusion of an open system. Where are you going to buy games for Steam Machine? Steam obviously, there’s no competition. Then as your library grows you get more and more vendor locked. Then Valve does an Android application notarising switcheroo and you have Linux machine that’s no different from a Mac or an Android phone. Of course they can subsidise it because they can recoup it thanks to 30% cut and it’ll only accelerate the process.
Where are you going to buy games for Steam Machine? Steam obviously, there’s no competition.
Simply not true.
What is the competition on Linux? What’s their market share?
GoG, epic, any other store really. Proton is made by valve but it works in whatever, and there are tools now to use proton (not wine, proton) outside of steam to get all the goodies you got on top. Heroic launcher does that for the games you get from the Amazon store, gog, epic, and any other exe you got.
I even installed battle net, and once you open it everything you install from there works in that bubble and work, I played plenty HOTS games.
I play modded D2 without much issues.
You know why the steam market share in Linux is so high? Because they are the ones that put the work to make windows games work on Linux. Yes, wine existed before but they both adapted it for games and contributed to the overall wine project a ton. Also, iirc, steamdecks make up for 30% of the Linux machines from valve’s yearly reports. The market is tremendously tiny yet.
What is their current market share on Linux?
Why is that even relevant? You said people can only get games on Steam and that’s just not true
If they have no market share then that competition exists in theory only.
The competition on…
Okay, so, it’s an OS right?
So for free linux-native stuff, there’s the default package manager that comes installed. Switch your steam deck to desktop mode. There’s a lot there, including emulators that will run on steam deck from ancient Atari shit to Nintendo switch.
But you can also run non-steam executables with proton. Heroic, lutris, etc are great tools from that. You can buy your games anywhere without rootkit DRM. Most things from itch.io or gog.com will run. Or, you know; other places. You can just pirate shit.
You can in fact uninstall the stock OS and run anything you can compile for midrange x86 hardware.
You missed the part where Android wanted to lock people out of installing their own apps. They postponed it for now due to pressure but it will happen eventually. Also the part where bootloaders lock you out of changing OS. This thing is possible when you vendor lock people in a vertically integrated system and people here are completely oblivious to the trap they’re walking into because they think Valve will be forever cool.
Yeah those cases were bad, steam deck just has Linux on it though. Arch based I think with two DE’s: KDE plasma and a modified’ ‘steam big picture’ mode.
I don’t think anything is locked, and they aren’t fucking with that in any way dell lenovo or system76 couldn’t.
Not yet but they hold you by the balls because you
buylicense most of your games through Steam. Once they’re entrenched enough they can do whatever. Android was a very open platform in the beginning, now it’s almost iOS. You can fork Android / SteamOS but without Play Store / Steam consumers aren’t that interested.
Heroic launcher lets you install games from other launchers although Steam experience is better. But, biggest thing is you can just install Windows, which those who play games that refuse to enable anticheat on Linux will end up doing if this is going to be their main PC.
Like imagine if you could pick up a PS5 or Xbox and install Linux or Windows on it. Id pick one up for that purpose completely negating the reason Sony and Xbox put out the hardware, which is to get people to buy from their store and take 30% of every sale so even if they sold at a loss they are guaranteed to recoup it. Open that hardware up though and they’ll have system that are just going to be a loss.
Does Heroic launcher guarantee that the game you bought will not break Wine compatibility when patched by the developer? What kind of consumer experience are you trying to sell here?
What’s to keep Windows from deciding to get rid of allowing people to install any exe? What’s to stop them from deciding to charge a 30% fee of all transactions from exes that they allow to be published? Whats to stop them from banning Steam, Epic, GOG from existing on their OS so everything is through the Microsoft Store?
What if? What if?
What stops Windows? Business consumers paying for the OS and the fact that they don’t have any successful app store. What stops Valve?
This is an illusion of an open system.
Well that’s certainly an…unusual position.
Steam obviously, there’s no competition.
There’s definitely competition. Is the competition great? Not really. But you can still buy and install games from Epic, Itch and GOG and run them on Steam hardware. It’s just not as convenient. There’s not really anything they can do about that. I hope one day soon someone makes a better frontend that supports other platforms better, and if they do, you’ll be able to install it on Steam hardware, because that’s what an open system means.
Closed hardware looks Like PS5, XBOX and Switch. No browser. No desktop. No access to any files. No mods. No emulation. No third party stores AT ALL. And in fact if you try to do any of those things, they will remotely brick your device.
Then as your library grows you get more and more vendor locked.
Not sure how you get there…
hope one day soon someone makes a better frontend that supports other platforms better,
Heroic Games Launcher isn’t that bad IMO. Though I haven’t checked if it has something equivalent to big picture mode, which is kind of a necessity to compete with Steam on the Steam Machine. But on PC it’s fine. I use it for my free Epic games lol
Heroic doesn’t have controller support. It also doesn’t have all the menus.
What you’re saying doesn’t contradict that on Steam Machine you’re going to buy games from Valve only so it doesn’t matter that you can, in theory, buy from somewhere else. The bigger your library grows, the less likely you are to start buying games in another ecosystem. Valve doesn’t care if you „jailbreak” with a web browser for now. They’re in for a long game and there was no better time than now because in the US they can get around tariffs by selling this console as a PC.
What you’re saying doesn’t contradict that on Steam Machine you’re going to buy games from Valve only so it doesn’t matter that you can, in theory, buy from somewhere else.
What you’re saying is just false. This is not a theory. I’ve owned a “Steam machine” for several years and regularly acquire and play games from other stores. Whether you buy games from Valve is entirely up to you.
The bigger your library grows, the less likely you are to start buying games in another ecosystem.
No. That makes zero sense.
Valve doesn’t care if you „jailbreak”
There is no jailbreaking. There’s nothing to break. The system already allows you to do whatever you want. Just go into the menu and select “exit to desktop”.
they can get around tariffs by selling this console as a PC.
Why would you think PCs aren’t impacted by tariffs?
Why would you think PCs aren’t impacted by tariffs?
Different rates for different products. I don’t follow US domestic politics that closely but last I’ve heard computer parts, displays and smartphones are at least temporarily exempted while toys (that’s consoles too) are subject to highest tariff rates.
Also, I’m describing how Valve plans to corner consumers, not the current state. So far they’re very much on track.
They are using a modified arch distro with KDE, yeah it defaults to steam big picture on launch but that can be changed, specially on the GabeCube. It’s a computer, a literal computer with all the capabilities and support systems of arch Linux with KDE.
The amount of contributions they have done to the Linux gaming world to then use it in their consoles is insane. They didn’t built it for themselves, they built it for everybody, then made it popular in their consoles so they get money back from increased sales on the games.
They did sell the deck at a loss, but that was a new concept and people were weary, price needed to be good. Now people know that the idea works, the picture changes.
I don’t really care if they sell at a loss or no, I’m not buying one when I basically have the equivalent already at home, but saying that their plan is to corner consumers sounds like the other side of the lunacy spectrum as those that treat steam as religion.
🏴☠️?
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Some analysts think Great headline
Doubt they’ll be that pricey. I think they’re aiming for 600ish or thereabouts. I’m not the target audience (beefy gaming pc) but I love the concept and what it’ll do to further indie gaming. It’ll probably also pull people from consoles to pc gaming. Valve can’t stop winning.
The problem is dram prices right now are crazy so the price might get pushed up quite a bit
For $1k I think this would be DOA.
Yeah, if it isn’t like $600 USD or less, the thing is as toast as the previous generation of Steam Machines.
No way its that close to steam deck prices
You can always just build your own today even.
At 1000 bucks you are dangerously close to a 9600 9060XT 16gb build, which would run circles around this performance wise.
There is no way its this expensive. It would be deader than a doornail on arrival.
If this thing isn’t 750 or less, itll be an impossible sell.
Number of investors think you should be willing to invest in a machine that you probably don’t have money for to enrich them. They think you should buy games at $70 or something instead of wait for them to be $30 like on sale. Like I wait. Not all of us want to be in debt.
You’re fundamentally misunderstanding what this development means for gaming affordability. Not having to buy a scarce, way overpriced Nvidia (or even AMD) external/discrete GPU to play the latest games means that PC gaming is a whole lot cheaper. If game developers are optimizing for hardware like the Steam Machine - budget external graphics cards and iGPUs suddenly become viable again as well.
Especially with the llm crash, this may keep the fabs running
Its some degree of good from like every direction.
Investors? Valve is a private company
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have investors. It means it’s not publicly traded. Private investment buy company stock directly. That’s the premis behind VC fundraising
I don’t think it would make sense for them to sell it at a loss. On the other hand, they don’t have to make a huge profit from it either. I really hope it’ll come down to a range of about €600. That would make it a no-brainer for me.
Benefits of being a non publicly traded company, they can actually take risks which they did with the deck. It performed way better than they expected, so while they might not sell it at a loss they will definitely be competitive. I mean considering development costs, it has an integrated on board but discreet GPU, so the r&d budget will be factored in. But I honestly don’t see it >$700. Without knowing the exact chipset they’re using that is. But memory is the big cost constraint right now thanks to ai.
From the GPU specs in expecting a firmly mid range machine. Probably about the price of a PS5 Pro, but with the performance of a base PS5.
They could sell me a wrapped up bc250 and I’d still buy it before any other brand just because.
i swear i read somewhere that they were shootin for around $400 for a base model
Just saying
The steam deck was 600€
The steam Maschine is 4x faster
I think your math dosent math
Bro, the steam deck was $400 for the base model when new. I got a base model for $330 a few months after release. $400 is really low for this, but it also doesn’t have a screen and battery. I’m guessing (hoping) for $600 base model.
Wont be that low, but Steam Deck needed a screen, battery, portable form factor, and inputs.
So just needing a case and less size and battery power restrictions might make it easier to do more with the same money for the same reason smartphones can be more expensive than PCs and laptops and consoles because of the use case expected of them and the challenge portability adds.
The rumor is that the cpu in the steam machine is leftover from another AMD partnership with Microsoft. The GPU is a mobile GPU that AMD had a hard time selling. It’s about the same performance as a PS5, though valve won’t be subsidizing it as much. I’d bet $600-$800.
Very safe bet. I’m hoping for it being closer to $600 but I know I don’t need it, I don’t need it, I don’t need it. Sorry I have to keep reminding myself. But I’m very excited for it to bring affordable and seamless Linux gaming to the masses.
Based on the specs it is a bit bumped up Ryzen 7000/8000 series (Zen 4 arch), with a beefed up GPU (sounds to be about two 780Ms soldered together with a bit of overclocking).
I wouldn’t be surprised if MS wanted a mid-generation upgrade to the Xbox but the current economic situation put a damper on it before the hardware could fully materialise and AMD ended up with a practically ready for production APU they couldn’t sell to anyone before Valve strolled up.
Here’s my source for the Microsoft laptop cpu rumor:
They already tried that with the original steam machines and it flopped hard. It’ll be significantly better value or it’ll flop again, simple. They’re clearly optimizing for price based on the vram/ram specs. Yeah maybe it’ll go up after launch but out of the gate it’ll be sub-$500/512gb otherwise the whole exercise is pointless
This isn’t why it failed. It failed because the software, user experience, and compatibility was immature. That is no longer the case, as proven by the steamdeck, and offering a mature ecosystem with VR, controller, and console/PC that all interact seamlessly will be the major selling point.
I’m expecting $799.99 for the low storage model, and if it performs as well as a typical $1000-$1200 PC, I think they’ll enjoy the same level of adoption seen by the Steamdeck. The target will be people looking for an entry level to PC gaming, and current PC enthusiasts on lower end hardware looking for an upgrade that’s simple and reasonably positioned price wise against traditional PCs.
Also some of those old steam machines were comically expensive, in part because all the different vendors wanted a cut, in part because some of them made new cases
edit: found a spec sheet for the cheapest version of Bolt II, for almost $1800 you got a gtx 760 and i5 4590, 16 gigs of ddr3, 120gb ssd + 1tb hdd. All of it air cooled. I don’t remember new hardware prices back then but it seems steep. And it’s far from the most expensive one.
edit2: on the other end of the spectrum, for $400 (without an OS) you could get ibuypower’s SBX with an athlon x4 840, 4 gigs of ram and an r5 250X
It failed for multiple reasons, but a big reason was that they tried to outsource the hardware and basically just got reskins of existing gaming-PC prebuilds, which didn’t actually make PCs any less confusing. And they didn’t actually save money (and some were overpriced scams) so buyers were basically forced to do as much research as buying an actual gaming PC.
All of that will be solved, and the software/UX/other stuff you mentioned are far more mature, like you say.
Can get an ‘aoostar GODY’ on AliExpress for US$1000. Basically the same GPU, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD. The steam machine has less cores and less ethernet. Though it also has a way bigger heatsink, LEDs and extra Bluetooth/valve gamepad antenna.
Comparing the deck to comparative brands, it is wayyy cheaper. I think valve are going to be aggressive on price, especially when the CPU/GPU are fairly old and meek.
And beyond the aggressive pricing, the one major benefit over other miniPC makers is the extensive support.
I have a Minisforum mini PC. Took Minisforum over a year to release BIOS updates that were finished in March 2024… and against all CS promises it still hasn’t fixed the initial discrepancies (advertised as the only 8945HS mini PC that can go over 57W due to their improved cooling, and the only Ryzen 8000 series APU that can handle RAM at 5400-5600MT/s - still can’t get power over 57W and even though I have compatible RAM, it refuses to clock over 4800MHz, and there’s no option to configure it either).
Meanwhile Valve is still dropping improvements on the Steam Deck, 3.5 years after release.
…I might pick up the controller if it’s not a hundred bucks.
Going on off the price of the dualsense edge we will be lucky if it is only a 100 bucks.
The original steam controller was $50, I would hope they’d be able to keep it under $100.
Not to mention a steamdeck is $400, and that’s got a lot more going on than just a controller.
Original Steam controller felt like it was made with really cheap looking materials to cut costs.
This controller looks like the build quality is much more premium and has a lot of inputs and tech put in than the expensive Xbox Elite. The dualsense edge getting removable joysticks and grips raised the price too.
So when its those controllers that this controller will be closer to in terms of features than the base Sony and Xbox controllers. Being only $100 would be a bargain.
I would be happy if I was proved wrong. Please prove me wrong Valve.
I mean the original controller had gryo, track pads, USB dongle and Bluetooth, haptics, and buttons on the back.
However, I do agree the controller felt cheap (I think really just how light it was).
We’ll have to see. I think they could pull it off as they’ve been more aggressive with pricing than other companies.
The controller is going to be closer to $200
Ain’t no way. I got my steam deck during the first sale for around $330. There is no way their controller based off it will cost about half of something that came with a screen, soc, and bigger battery.
Ps5 controller is like $70, the Steam Controller has more features than that, and the OG Steam Controller was pretty expensive. I’d be shocked if it’s under $100. I’m expecting it in the $150-$200 range. But we’ll see, I’d love to be proven wrong
the OG Steam Controller was pretty expensive
Wasn’t the OG steam controller $50 ?
Yeah, it was. So it had more features than most controllers at the time and I think was still cheaper.
