Summary

The “femosphere,” a growing online space for women, mirrors the misogynistic “manosphere” with toxic ideologies, including anti-gender equality views and strategies to “conquer” men.

The term describes communities like Female Dating Strategy and “dark feminine” influencers who reject liberal feminism, advocating traditional gender roles as empowering.

“Femcel” influencers urge their followers to give up on gender equality and use men for financial gain – in the name of feminism.

Critics warn these spaces mix conservative and feminist ideas, creating “anti-feminist feminism” that appeals to those disillusioned with mainstream feminism.

While less linked to violence than the manosphere, researchers caution against its potential for radicalization and harm.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    18 days ago

    In the femosphere, as in the manosphere, there’s an overarching belief that life is about survival of the fittest, that men will always hurt women and that will never change, so strategies are needed to conquer the opposite gender.

    I’m not a massive fan of the guy they nailed to a tree 2000 years ago for saying maybe people should be nice to each other once in a while, but the violent reaction to that suggestion no longer surprises me.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        18 days ago

        To be fair, he also suggested if they worshipped other gods, they’d be punished in hell for it. That’s why I’m not a massive fan. But I like the ‘be nice to people’ part.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            18 days ago

            Jesus and God are part of a trinity, so that’s not really an “or” situation, unless you’re one of the minority of Nontrinitarian Christians. But I was thinking of John 3:18 in specific:

            Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

            • AtariDump@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              18 days ago

              God really mellowed out after having a kid. Jesus even says he speaks for God. So, yeah, becomes an “or” situation. Just ask the Jews.

              The rest, even if I knew enough theology it’s not worth debating with a random person on the internet.

    • MagicShel@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      18 days ago

      Look we just need to move around small bits of green paper and everything will be fine.

  • Not_mikey@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    18 days ago

    Thankfully this is a community that was left on reddit. Same with the manosphere.

    There seems to be a lack of gender culture war bs on lemmy that you see on a lot of other platforms. It’s good that there is a pretty progressive consensus on gender here. Probably enforced by a legion of trans people, and to that I say thank you for your service.

  • pack_of_racoons@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    18 days ago

    My only exposure to the term femcel was from lemmy.blahaj.zone/c/femcelmemes which appears to be the antithesis of what this article describes. My perspective on some irl comments I’ve heard has totally changed.

    Looking over at reddit for a femcelmemes equivalent it seems like r/femcelgrippysockjail is the closest but damn do they hate men over there. Yet are weirdly cool with trans women?

    I’m assuming femcelmemes on blahaj.zone is ironic or just unrelated? Either way, going to steer clear of anyone who associates with that term cuz damn that’s a lot of hatred and negativity.

  • aesthelete@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    18 days ago

    Sounds like a snazzy new bunch of nonsense that’s just describing the age old concepts of prostitution and being a gold digger.

    In a way they’re acting as feminists by proving that girls can indeed do everything boys do, including being assholes on the Internet for fame and fortune.

  • kshade@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    18 days ago

    The article doesn’t really address the brand of revenge “feminism” I’ve seen on that sub and mostly frames it as women who want to become trad wives because it’s easy. What I’ve seen is that they basically want to find sugar daddies while also really, really hating men in general, especially the “low status” ones.

    How did they get to that point? I suspect it’s a variation of mean world syndrome, fueled by ideas like the poisonous M&M analogy (understood not as a call to be cautious but to treat every man as if they were bad) and seeing men and women as as coherent classes engaging in warfare. All watered down to simple talking points that fit in a punchy tweet. If men as a group do/don’t do this for me then it’s okay to be awful to any individual one because he’s the enemy too.

    Hateful, dehumanizing thinking. So yes, they do mirror the Andrew Tate dudes pretty much exactly, including being trans-exclusive.

    • HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      18 days ago

      I think that the femcel meme group here on Lemmy seem much happier to just post about being horny and I think pretty clearly don’t subscribe to this ideology at all.

  • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    18 days ago

    I feel bad for all the dumb guys who get robbed blind by all these con artist grifters. Whether it’s someone like Andrew Tate or some OF model, they’re getting taken for a ride.

    If there’s some young man reading this who has or is considering giving money to a manosphere grifter or some cam model, just know they don’t know you, they don’t care about you, they only want your money. You’re nothing but a mark to them. Get off the Internet, go to church, or go to school, or to the library, or do some volunteer work in your community. Meet a nice girl, in real life, treat her right, and cultivate a real, lasting relationship.

      • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        18 days ago

        I think it’s relevant, but I admit I failed to acknowledge a critical part of this situation: the ways in which women are harmed by these circumstances. Obviously, there are the direct effects of the kinds of misogyny peddled by men like Tate, but there are also the less direct and mostly unintentional effects of the broader movement that helped create the conditions that made the manosphere possible.

        Liberal feminism tried to liberate women, but unintentionally ended up confining them to a different kind of prison, one in which they would remain the person primarily responsible for keeping house and caring for children, but in which they would also be the sole financial provider, as well. Liberal feminism convinced women that it would be liberating for them to take on both traditional, household gender roles, but all it did was saddle women with an even greater burden.

        Meanwhile, the movement to make women independent left a lot of men lonely, bitter, and resentful, ideal for manosphere grifters and parasocial cam models to exploit. It really was a scenario that ended up making essentially everyone worse off. It also absolved men of any of their previous responsibilities.

        I think people need to abandon the idea that freedom comes from independence. Independence can be liberating, but it can also be isolating, and burdensome. A person who lives totally self sufficiently, alone in a cabin in the woods is independent, but also lonely and saddled with the entire burden of survival. Many hands make the burden light, fewer hands make it heavy.

        Where liberalism fails time and time again is in its antisocial tendencies. Liberalism’s focus on the atomized individual so often disregards relationships of interdependence, or even sees them as antithetical or hostile to individual freedom. But this mentality ignores the inherently social nature of our species, as well as the absolute material necessity of social arrangements.

        • FirstCircle@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          18 days ago

          they would remain the person primarily responsible for keeping house and caring for children, but in which they would also be the sole financial provider, as well.

          Huh? Sole? House-husbands? I don’t think I’ve ever met one. The norm across the vast majority of working- and professional-class people I’ve encountered is for both partners to be working or, if wealthy enough (the minority) for the woman to be the stay-at-home child-raiser.

          I could definitely imagine many, if not most women being disgruntled at the current socio-economic situation (at least in the US) where they’re expected to both work at a paid job full-time (just like their spouse) while also doing a majority of the unpaid child-rearing work.

          • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            18 days ago

            The norm across the vast majority of working- and professional-class people I’ve encountered is for both partners to be working

            I’m sure that’s true, but I was thinking specifically about single, working mothers. You’re right, though, it’s not only single mothers, these realities affect women who are in relationships as well.

  • Stern@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    18 days ago

    On one hand? Woo equality I guess

    On the other? This shit again? We gonna get a Femdrew Tate or some shit? Eesh.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    18 days ago

    Lots wrong in this article…

    “I used to be a feminist before I saw the effects of third wave feminism,” Batra said. “This has forced women into masculine roles where they are pursuing men.”

    But that’s dumb, for a shit ton of reasons it works out best when women are the ones who first show interest rather than men hitting on anything that moves

    • NotSteve_@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      18 days ago

      Do you mean there’s lots wrong in the movement or the actual article because that’s just a direct quote

  • WhatSay@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    18 days ago

    The gender war continues, and my nonbinary ass is sitting back and not getting involved.

    • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      18 days ago

      The best part about being in the middle is that both teams hate you! /s

      I personally identify as a non-conforming man and the amount of hate I get from traditionalists on both sides is deeply disappointing.

      • WhatSay@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        18 days ago

        Yeah, people feel threatened by any behavior that doesn’t conform to their norms. I practice apathy towards their attitudes, and keep an eye out for violence.

        • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          18 days ago

          Ditto, given my ADHD, love of fantasy and other things I’ve always been an outsider. Their judgment is their problem - my partner loves me as I am and that’s not only the opinion I care about the most but also the only one that’s really relevant since I’ve no intention of forming either a platonic or romantic relationship with any hater.

          The only real thing that hurts is when my expression hurts my loved ones. I recently had to go to a funeral in the south and I dressed normally for my flights and transit but eschewed a skirt and wore slacks to the ceremony.

          Thankfully as a large man, while I’m a friendly giant, I am a giant and physical threats are extremely rare. But I do have trans friends who have faced real danger.

        • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          18 days ago

          It means I’m not trans, and I wouldn’t go so far as to say I’m non-binary - but I don’t like or accept the gender norms of being a man. I refuse to conform to societal expectations about what a man should look like or how a man should act.