I had a similar experience in middle school. It fucking sucked.
Kid just suck.
Eh, they are a less inhibited form of adults, and a product of their upbringing.
They sense and exploit weakness for personal gain. Plenty of adults do that too. That’s where they learn it from.
Kinda crazy to think that adults learn that behavior from kids.
You…you…I like you.
It does seem that way sometimes, doesn’t it?
Yup, and I try very hard to bully my kids whenever they’re bullying others so they get a taste of their own medicine, and reward them when they’re excellent to others for the same reason.
My kid was a selfish brat for a bit, so I completely removed all of my attention for a bit, and I told them exactly why I was doing it. They stewed for a bit, then eventually apologized and I showered them with tons of attention.
Hopefully my kids don’t end up being little terrorists, but if they do, it wasn’t for lack of trying to instill some sense of humanity in them.
Aren’t you teaching them how effective bullying is? And that it’s ok for an adult to use it to get the behavior they want? Or do you face any consequences for your bullying?
I’m being pretty loose with terminology here. I don’t call them names or anything, but I make sure punishments are directly related to how they mistreat others.
For example, if my kid is bullying others at the park, I remove them from the park until they’re ready to apologize or it’s time to go home, and I don’t mind embarrassing them in front of their friends. Playing at the park is a privilege, and I’m happy to revoke that. That said, sometimes my SO will go overboard on punishments, and I’ll step in to protect them if that happens (and they do the same for me). If they are misusing something to bully others (e.g. their bike), I’ll take it away until they apologize.
There’s always a discussion about why the behavior wasn’t acceptable, how they can make it right, and what the consequences are. And every time we make it clear that we love them, it’s just that specific behavior that’s the issue.
It has worked pretty well so far.
Terrible people whom I do not wish to share a planet with.
Kids are Reddit. If they sense weakness; the others will pile on.
One shining star will talk about the injustice of it all in the aftermath, and everyone will privately forgive themselves and conveniently forget until the next time it happens.
The solution is to be arrogant. Insist your position in their society and force your presence. If you show you have self worth, others will be forced to grudgingly acknowledge it
Kids are Reddit. If they sense weakness; the others will pile on.
I’m all for a little reddit-bashing but fucking lmao. Did they bully you on askreddit or something?
I think it was more that people were prone to ask rhetorical questions in guise of actual discussion
Kids are Reddit. If they sense weakness; the others will pile on.
The same happens here. Just try to say anything remotely positive about Twitter/X, Elon Musk, or conservatives in general. I don’t even like any of those, but sometimes I call out hypocrisy and get absolutely dumped on (even got a couple death threats). The problem isn’t with Reddit, it’s with social media in general, it really brings the worst kinds of people together.
People suck. Try to be just a little better than the person next to you and we’ll all hopefully get through this.
You’re right. I’d argue that lemmy has the advantage of not being so popular, and that the mindset is by default more counter-culture than status-quo (otherwise we’d still be on the major sites), so I do think that the people here tend to pile on less… though I do admit that there are plenty of pylons here
It’s interesting how just a few instances of surprise rejection early in life can have a big effect on personality. I ended up paranoid, always assuming that no one could really like me and anyone who acted as if he or she did was just pitying me or playing some cruel prank on me that I was too socially inept to see.
It got to the point that when I went to a school dance (I didn’t want to but my parents made me) and the prettiest girl in the class asked me to dance with her, I actually got upset. I couldn’t believe that she sincerely wanted to. I said yes because it would have been rude to say no, but I was convinced that everybody including her was secretly laughing at me.
I only considered the possibility that she was sincere years later, when I was an adult, but even now my brain is telling me “Nah, loser, she just felt sorry for you.”
It felt so weird when I got to college and started working and people were just treating me like a normal person. It took a long time for me to stop defaulting to trying to figure out what kind of trick they were playing on me. I still don’t know wtf I did wrong as a child that made everyone decide I was to be ostracized.
I am currently doing my bachelor in padagogical science and I can ensure you that group dynamics and individuals position in those groups very seldom have anything to do with the individual. There are contributing factors in all personalities involved, but it more often comes down to how a group is situated in what context. Often youngh people internalise their roles and continue to act according to them in different groups. So, take it as a scientific fact that you very likey didn’t do anything wrong as a child, nor had a personality trade that was the sole contribute to beeing ostracized.
It’s very difficult to logic away an emotional response
I didn’t have nearly the same awful relationship with rejection as you, but I had a similar experience as you did at your dance. I’m pretty introverted and rarely join social circles, for a bit of context.
When I went to college, we had a directory of everyone in the building with a picture and name (200 people, more or less). So naturally, we (roommates) picked out our favorites, yet few of us did anything about it. One roommate asked the girl out that he picked (she was my #2), and they ended up dating, and he convinced my to go to dance with him. I went, and he was late (probably making out or something), and my #1 waved me over from across the room, so I went over and talked. We ended up exchanging numbers, dating, and now she’s my wife. Unfortunately, she had already applied to transfer to another school, so we dated long distance for a while before getting married, but it worked out. I still kick myself for waiting so long to ask her out, because we could have spent that time together instead of over video calls.
A bit of confidence can really go a long way, and screw all the kids who reject others in those formative years. When I see my kids do anything similar, I come down on them really hard, because I don’t want my kids to be the reason other kids feel rejected.
Ok but there’s a variety of forms of rejection. I had painful rejection experiences when I was young, some were kids being shitty (not ok), some were kids just not getting along with me (sucks but fine), and some were shit like romantic (necessary for personal development of all parties and as a happily married adult I’m grateful, no matter how embarrassed I was at 16). Part of me gaining confidence was me learning to be someone people liked (alongside my peers getting old enough to find me funny). And I’ve seen people who have confidence and no likability, they range from annoying to in need of severe professional help
It’s not an entirely faulty line of thinking in that environment. Those bastard kids really did do that kind of thing all the time and they found it hilarious. When all your experiences up until that point made such an unexpected scenario seem unlikely, the chances of it being a cruel prank instead probably really are higher or even higher still someone recognising your plight and trying to be charitable whilst not quite realising that that hurts almost as much.
As you probably guessed I didn’t enjoy school a whole lot either. I hope she was sincere though dude. God knows school fucks with your mind.
always assuming that no one could really like me and anyone who acted as if he or she did was just pitying me or playing some cruel prank on me that I was too socially inept to see.
Same, even went to tinder to try to get some validation, but still felt like they were just pitying me and always ended up ghosting my matches and never doing anything besides the initial small talk, it’s a hole that’s very hard to crawl out of.
Uh, what’s your secret to getting matches on Tinder? I can’t imagine trying to meet women in order to feel validated. I did online dating before apps, when people had to have written profiles and send messages. I thought I was writing thoughtful messages to women whose profiles made them seem like they might want to hear from me, but I got ignored so much that it was really hard on my self-esteem.
Am I ugly? My grandma says I’m not ugly…
Edit: I just assumed that you’re a heterosexual man like me, but maybe you’re a woman getting matches from men? That would be very validating, according to what I’ve heard.
I’m a man, and I really don’t know too since I too consider myself ugly, but seems like having a few photos where I dressed something like high casual helped I guess, also a photo with your pet if you have one.
yep, very similar experience here. Random early rejection totalled me
I agree. I haven’t really been able to shake off feeling like an outsider due to a combination of a sheltered upbringing + social delays + social alienation.
It’s almost impossible for my brain to think that other people care without some malicious motive.
At camp some guys and girls were playing in a tent, I was not included.
One got out and told me I could join. I tried to and they all laughed at me. Still hurts a bit.
Describes a lot of my childhood to be honest I was a social pariah for some reason. Completly changed when I went to college and made new friends, and now a lot of my happiest memories surround my college years. I even met my wife there!
Being called an ugly pimple head for a whole year will also do it
Man. I used to sing a song to any kid who got a pimple when I was a teenager. “Big pimplin from WV and if you squeeze him too hard he pop all over the place!” With a little spin on the V to make it rhyme with place.
Had every kid in the neighborhood singing it to each other when they’d get pimples.
I hope the pimples left you alone man. If not I hope you came to terms with it.
Props for not rhyming face with place lol
Hmm, I’m having trouble with the rhythm here, and how can you possibly make V rhyme with place? You some kind of rap god?
Double u vay-an if you squeeze him too hard he pop all over the play-suh
I’m a rap god!
was it true though
wdym?
Plot twist: Anon was at a college party where everyone else was 20+, so they didn’t want to diddle him
Getting bullied for years will also do this.
I was at a gathering with some guy friends meeting some girls from a different school. The slightly older brother (let’s call him Jay) of one of my friend’s had driven us there. We were playing spin the bottle outside the apartment building. I was rejected after the bottle spun by a girl saying she didn’t want to kiss me specifically. I got hurt/mad then my impulsive ADHD brain decided to get even. I saw a spigot on the floor, aimed it strait at the girl that rejected me and turned it on. More than the intended target got wet. Jay got really mad and I just ran. Once he caught up to me I thought he was going to beat me up. Instead he just laughed and told me I was going to have to leave and walk home.
LoL… That has the feel of getting sent to the principal’s office for something that they kinda actually agree with (or at least find amusing) but have to deal with by policy.
You did the right thing.
Anon didn’t have the abilities to digest the situation to conclude what needs to be done to prevent this in the future.
Anon hopefully is older and wiser now.
I was anon once…
Break the bottle and start stabbing
Play spin the bottle with their torsos
Shut yourself in and never meet people ever.
That sounds… ominous
4chan is made to make people feel bad about themselves.
That’s social media in general. Actually marketing is specifically designed to prey on people’s insecurities.
Anon should’ve showered more often
Middle school kids he mighta done nothing wrong at all. Those kids at that age are terrors and will oust people from a friend group for the dumbest reasons imaginable.
Sucks because that person may have done everything right and years later still can’t trust people or open up to them.
If there is even just a chance that others wouldn’t understand, let alone disapprove you associating with kid X, you can accomplish 2 things by ousting them: 1. You get rid of the potential disapproval (wich is mostly just insecurity) 2. You help an ingroup getting rid of unambiguousness, by drawing/strengthening the border to the outgroup, while with the same move placing yourself on the inside.
I work with kids, and so far I think this is the objective rationality behind most or at least many acts of cruel exclusion.
The only long term, non authoritarian solution is the kids developing a moral compass, that makes violent exclusion more important to them than short term insecurity-management and of course beeing less insecure. (Plus the “weird ones” often have fluffin interesting perspectives)
As we can see in comments like “shower more” even many adults didn’t recover from the competitive-acceptance-bs other kids/their parents/ this fucked up society gave them.
kids developing a moral compass
Yeah, not happening. I’ve really tried, and the most effective thing is providing external consequences for undesirable behavior, as in loss of privileges. I was a pretty chill kid, and I can’t say I had a properly working “moral compass” until my mid-20s, if that. I didn’t bully anyone, but I was secretly happy when bad things happened to people I didn’t like.
So yeah, stick with the first two, you’ll probably have more success than trying to instill morality into kids who are still harboring resentment at not getting to pick the first slice of pizza last week.
Yes, happening. Empathy and morals (which are party sort of systemized empathy) do develop. Needs time and good relationship circumstances though. I’m in outdoor pedagogy and I’m pretty sure kids make a lot of progress with some help here and there.
School as both the no 1 pedagogical field and an institution of selection and disciplination (hello competition, hello human market) isn’t a great place to progress in that.
Needs time and good relationship circumstances though
Yup, and time is the issue here. My kids are way better than their peers IMO, and my kids’ teachers have said as much (not sure if they’re just buttering me up though). But they’re still amoral little jerks a lot of the time. They’ll get there eventually, but my point is to not rely on that and instead mitigate the worst of it while their moral compass is getting calibrated.
That sounds good and healthy to me. It’s definetly part of any pedagocial role to mitigate the worst. I mean I strongly advocate for hope in the good in kids and teach/allow them to make this world a better place than we managed to so far, responsibility and all kinds of compasses. But surely they are idiots and need to rely on us mitigating that!
Ok hol up. I had to read this 10 times. Reads like AI
Are you saying you think kids are quick to push otherness away because they themselves are insecure? And as a bonus, alot of them don’t gain confidence even into adulthood?
I’d just like to say that I didn’t find it read like AI personally
I agree, this does not at all read like GPT
Thank you lol
Haha yeah sorry I’m sick and kinda slow rn.
Yeah basically that’s what I said but I also tried to describe the rational of being mean and contextualize it in a broader mode of socialization.
This is to not just go “kids are brutal” but add additional understanding, which in turn is meant to help forgiveness (in a sense of reducing hurt) and see the involvement of social order (competition does no good to hoomans).
You know, like the kids are alright but society isn’t yet so they aren’t. This sucks but doesn’t have to forever.
Exactly. Most bullies bully others because that’s how they feel more secure about themselves. Most of them live in broken homes, so they’re used to being pushed away, so they push others away.
The immediate solution is to stand up for yourself. The longer term solution is to befriend them, which can fill that hole they’ve been trying to fill with bullying.
I got a more direct case of rejection. 12yo me, at new school, 2nd week of classes, one of the girls that I thought was very pretty was asking others who they fancied. Once she came up to me, I meekly replied “You”. I got a very loud and angry “I HATE YOU!” as an answer. Up to this day, more than 20 years later, I have no fucking clue to any possible why, in her mind, I deserved that reply.
You got that reply because you surprised her and her immature 12 y/o brain spat that out as the best response on short notice. It’s entirely likely that response had nothing to do with you in particular.
Lol, that reaction probably haunts her, too. “Why was I so mean to that boy for no fucking reason 20 years ago?!”
Would be funny if I could find her on instagram or wherever and ask. Too bad I only remember her first name
It may have been that she was embarrassed because she liked you too.
B-B-b-b-BAKA!
But you probably caught her off guard. I wouldn’t expect 12 year olds to really know how to express their feelings like that.
I don’t think it was a tsundere, given that during the rest of the year she avoided me and I noticed at least two times were our eyes met, she frowned then looked away. We had zero interactions during the rest of the year.
Ouch. But also,
I once got angry and through a fit at a friend for buying me a surprise gift. I couldn’t even tell you why, but I was very upset.
Try not to put too much stock in the bubbling brew that is childhood emotions.
When I read those, I consider myself lucky. I’m not handsome, normal sized, not athletic at all, not very sociable, closer to poor than rich, yet I never experienced any of those. Always had a few close friends and never have been single for more than 4 consecutive months since my 15th birthday. And I’m almost 40.
Is it a matter of luck? Of countries culture? Of type of schools/univ? Of social groups or generation ? I truly wonder.
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You’re probably a nice person and a decent hang. Really that’s what most people are looking for imho
