I will die defending kb/m superiority over controllers, mostly because most strategy games are not made with controllers in mind at all. Also because I hate having to wait for a camera to pan around when I can do a very inaccurate 180º in a fraction of a second
Definitely agree. I used to be a KB/m only person, but have changed my opinion since using a controller for a while out of necessity. Some games are simply better with a controller.
Some are much worse. FPS will never translate well to controller for me. No idea how CoD people play on console. It feels like trying to throw a ball with someone else’s hand by manipulating their elbow.
The newer Doom games play well on a controller because precision movement matters more than precision aiming, so even on PC I play with a controller.
Having an analog stick instead of WSAD makes the movement much more fluid, and a double-barreled shotgun, rocket launcher, or chainsaw don’t exactly require pixel-perfect aiming.
Nowadays you can achieve the same with analog keyboards.
Took a bit of getting used to having control over the speed/angle by how deep your pressing the keys but works great.
Worst example is the Nintendo Switch controller. The triggers are binary so you can’t control your throttle in racing games.
Super Mario Sunshine used the analog triggers on the GameCube to differentiate a partial press where you can move around while spraying water or a full press where you can’t move, and the control stick is instead used to aim.
Consequently, in the Switch port, you can no longer half-press, so emulating the GameCube version is a better experience than playing the official Switch port.
For Sunshine, they mapped RT to half press and RB to full press, so there isn’t really any practical change, except hitting a different shoulder button instead of partially pressing the same one.
I do agree on lamenting the triggers being digital though. I played a lot of Rocket League and the lack of fine grained controls alone was enough to not really enjoy it on Switch.
Honestly, it really depends on the game and what control scheme it was designed for.
Controllers are absolutely dog crap at RTS, and anything else that is heavily GUI based. Controller mouse emulation is zero fun, and some games really need more shortcuts than controller buttons will allow. Highly competitive FPS games need fast mouse response as you observed, but there’s plenty of other FPS titles that are good enough on controller (e.g. Halo).
At the same time, keyboard keys have a different response and feel than controller buttons. Fighting, platforming, and other games make excellent use of what controllers have to offer.
A good example of what I’m talking about is comparing Diablo 2 to Diablo 3. The latter is a dream to play with a controller, and the game mechanics have been streamlined pretty much for that. Meanwhile, Diablo 2 absolutely requires mouse and keyboard to be playable.
You could definitely play diablo 2 with controller with the right maping. The person who first introduced my mom to diablo 2 was actually a paraplegic man she was a home care nurse for. He didn’t have enough motion to use keyboard and mouse properly but he did have just enough finger control that he could play by holding the mouse upside down in his hand and rolling the ball of the mouse with his thumb. That’s practically a joystick at that point. Apparently he was also pretty damn good.
That’s incredible. I happen to use a Logitech thumb-ball mouse, so I’m quite familiar with the concept. Never thought to use a conventional mouse upside down though; that’s incredibly resourceful.
I don’t know if you or anyone else here needs to see this, but this reminds me of Ben Heckendorn who makes custom accessibility controlers. He’s also known for a bunch of stuff, including Bill Paxton Pinball, the Hand-held 2600, podcasts, YT videos, and more junk on his site.
Imagine playing OSU! with a controller. In fact, try it! Let me know how absolutely miserably it goes. What’s the highest rating map you can beat? I will literally bet $1000 that I can outperform literally anyone who uses a controller in this game. That’s real money that I will fork over to anyone who tries their controller vs my mouse in OSU!.
This is why I can’t play with controllers anymore. I used a steam controller for the souls series and sekiro, with gyro mapped to touching the touchpad. So for fine movement like looking up or down or aiming a bow I could just tilt the controller, and for snap 180° I could swipe my thumb. Now every controller feels super slow.
Yeah, but they’re really hard to use while kicked back on the couch relaxing.
And honestly, I no longer enjoy games that require that level of precision and speed. I play games to relax and decompress after a lot of work, and if the game is complex or difficult enough that a cintroller can’t handle it, I’m probably gonna opt for something simpler anyway.
I will die defending kb/m superiority over controllers, mostly because most strategy games are not made with controllers in mind at all. Also because I hate having to wait for a camera to pan around when I can do a
very inaccurate180º in a fraction of a secondYou don’t have to defend or attack any of them. Different use cases fit different devices.
Best example is GTA V. A lot of people using kb/m for the running and shooting, and the controller for driving and flying.
Definitely agree. I used to be a KB/m only person, but have changed my opinion since using a controller for a while out of necessity. Some games are simply better with a controller.
Some are much worse. FPS will never translate well to controller for me. No idea how CoD people play on console. It feels like trying to throw a ball with someone else’s hand by manipulating their elbow.
Aim assist, generally speaking. That’s how they try and make it “fair” for console users.
I’ve never played a game where aim assist was done well enough for me. It’s either too little or too much. That is probably me though.
The newer Doom games play well on a controller because precision movement matters more than precision aiming, so even on PC I play with a controller.
Having an analog stick instead of WSAD makes the movement much more fluid, and a double-barreled shotgun, rocket launcher, or chainsaw don’t exactly require pixel-perfect aiming.
Nowadays you can achieve the same with analog keyboards. Took a bit of getting used to having control over the speed/angle by how deep your pressing the keys but works great.
You take my clicky discrete keypresses and I’ll cut you.
Oh I miss my custom keeb don’t get me wrong, but for gaming it has been an upgrade similar to moving from 60hz to 240hz.
Not having the actuation point set in stone but variable per key is a godsend and made wonder why it took so long to become more mainstream.
Yup. 90% of what I play use keyboard & mouse, but some games are straight-up better with a controller.
Worst example is the Nintendo Switch controller. The triggers are binary so you can’t control your throttle in racing games.
Super Mario Sunshine used the analog triggers on the GameCube to differentiate a partial press where you can move around while spraying water or a full press where you can’t move, and the control stick is instead used to aim.
Consequently, in the Switch port, you can no longer half-press, so emulating the GameCube version is a better experience than playing the official Switch port.
For Sunshine, they mapped RT to half press and RB to full press, so there isn’t really any practical change, except hitting a different shoulder button instead of partially pressing the same one.
I do agree on lamenting the triggers being digital though. I played a lot of Rocket League and the lack of fine grained controls alone was enough to not really enjoy it on Switch.
I still lament the loss of analogue face buttons from the PS2 controller.
It was mostly used on racing games where newer analogue triggers are a lot more precise, but it can make emulating older games tricky.
Honestly, it really depends on the game and what control scheme it was designed for.
Controllers are absolutely dog crap at RTS, and anything else that is heavily GUI based. Controller mouse emulation is zero fun, and some games really need more shortcuts than controller buttons will allow. Highly competitive FPS games need fast mouse response as you observed, but there’s plenty of other FPS titles that are good enough on controller (e.g. Halo).
At the same time, keyboard keys have a different response and feel than controller buttons. Fighting, platforming, and other games make excellent use of what controllers have to offer.
A good example of what I’m talking about is comparing Diablo 2 to Diablo 3. The latter is a dream to play with a controller, and the game mechanics have been streamlined pretty much for that. Meanwhile, Diablo 2 absolutely requires mouse and keyboard to be playable.
You could definitely play diablo 2 with controller with the right maping. The person who first introduced my mom to diablo 2 was actually a paraplegic man she was a home care nurse for. He didn’t have enough motion to use keyboard and mouse properly but he did have just enough finger control that he could play by holding the mouse upside down in his hand and rolling the ball of the mouse with his thumb. That’s practically a joystick at that point. Apparently he was also pretty damn good.
That’s incredible. I happen to use a Logitech thumb-ball mouse, so I’m quite familiar with the concept. Never thought to use a conventional mouse upside down though; that’s incredibly resourceful.
I don’t know if you or anyone else here needs to see this, but this reminds me of Ben Heckendorn who makes custom accessibility controlers. He’s also known for a bunch of stuff, including Bill Paxton Pinball, the Hand-held 2600, podcasts, YT videos, and more junk on his site.
Imagine playing OSU! with a controller. In fact, try it! Let me know how absolutely miserably it goes. What’s the highest rating map you can beat? I will literally bet $1000 that I can outperform literally anyone who uses a controller in this game. That’s real money that I will fork over to anyone who tries their controller vs my mouse in OSU!.
Strategy game with a controller = fighting game with k/m.
This is why I can’t play with controllers anymore. I used a steam controller for the souls series and sekiro, with gyro mapped to touching the touchpad. So for fine movement like looking up or down or aiming a bow I could just tilt the controller, and for snap 180° I could swipe my thumb. Now every controller feels super slow.
Yeah, but they’re really hard to use while kicked back on the couch relaxing.
And honestly, I no longer enjoy games that require that level of precision and speed. I play games to relax and decompress after a lot of work, and if the game is complex or difficult enough that a cintroller can’t handle it, I’m probably gonna opt for something simpler anyway.