While some fans loved this unabashed display of French camp and kitsch, others — particularly those who espouse conservative or Christian beliefs — were not happy with it.
Let me explain it this way. If I am going to sit somewhere, if we as left leaning individuals are going to sit and say “it’s not what you say it’s how others take it and be sensitive to that” then we need to follow the same rules.
If I tell a joke or do something that others take offense to, then maybe it wasn’t ok to say that, or to have done that.
If I am going to tell people to pay attention to how others respond to what they are doing or saying. Then i need to follow those same rules.
It is not ok for me to tell another person, you can’t say that (what ever that thing is) because of how others are viewing it or how it makes them feel. Then turn around and say but i can do what ever I want even if it offends others.
It is not relevant if we are talking about drag, or trans people, or black people, or minorities, or white people, or religions. What is relevant is that we are running around saying “you can’t do that because it is offending others”. Yet look through this thread, go all the way up to my top comment and look at all the responses. Notice something? People are acting like this was totally ok even though there are a shit ton of people that it offended.
So it’s ok for the left to put in rules that says “you can’t do that because it is offending others, but we the left can do what ever we want”. That makes sense?
I kind of see where you are coming from, but doesn’t it make a difference WHY somebody is offended?
If I, for eclxsmple, use the N-Word, the offence this rightfully causes is rooted in it being used to speak about slaves in the past. I can understand that. I understand why this could hurt black peoples feeling. So I don’t use it.
The root of offence on the Paris case seemes to be that some Christian Fundamentalist (wrongly) think that Drag-People imitated the last Supper.
Their offence is based in them hating Drags. That is nothing I can emphatize with. So I don’t see their offence beeing justified, since It is rooted in hate.
Would they be offended if white males immitated the last supper during the ceremony? Possible, and if so then I’d be interested to hear on what basis, since the scene has been mimiced in pop culture a lot without it causing any offence (on a level that would have made it noticeable to me).
Ao that’s the difference. I don’t blindly stop to do things the left labels as offensive. But If I understand how and why it causes people harm using phrases or doing things then I might change my behaviour on that base. Not because “the left says so” but because I can emphatize and understand the point. In this case I can do neither.
Paradox of tolerance. Christians are actively trying to invite violence against LGBT people by calling them groomers. That’s the basis of their outrage, so it is simple to dismiss it as hateful or inauthentic.
Religion has been behind so much discrimination over the centuries. I, as a leftist, will never care to not offend religion.
Also I’m very strongly of the opinion that being a leftist is about ending capitalism. The acceptance/bigotry spectrum is a different axis. And while ending bigotry is an important fight, it’s a separate one from ending capitalism.
Is there a way to read the thread without having an X account? Because all I see is the first post saying it’s supposed to be the other picture and they don’t look that similar to me. I’m guessing he goes on to explain some of the context? In other self replies that I can’t read?
I wish people would stop using X/Twitter because of this kind of shit. Everyone needs to move over to Mastadon or at least Blue Sky, something I can read without having an account and being logged in.
I would like to hear from the actual people, rather than some historian just coming up with something that could be an excuse.
Additionally, I regularly go to museums, I took art elective art classes in both HS and college, including art history, and I’ve never seen this painting. Im willing to bed 99% of people haven’t even heard of the artist. So attacking people for not making this connection ss “ignorant” seems to be a bit much.
hard disagree. you assume that if you give them the same respect that you ask for, that they will give it back in return. you’re talking about christians. they just want to subjugate everyone else to their standard of living.
nope. fuck them. they are the enemy. they are the barrier to living in a better world. they do not understand cultural differences and don’t want to. they are a problem to be solved, not a class of people who must be tolerated. goose and gander thinking will get you nowhere.
so because I’m a christian … it’s fuck me? ignoring the fact that i do my best to treat everyone equally. ignoring the fact that I want a constitutional amendment that says “on average for a given voting precinct the people shouldn’t be standing in line for 8 hours, the average should only be 30 minutes so minorities aren’t disenfranchised from voting” … ignoring the fact that I believe everyone should have the right to marry who ever they choose (as long as they are consenting adults… your statement is
“you’re talking about christians, they just want to subjugate everyone else… fuck them”
that’s also ignoring the fact that I do not believe that the bible should be taught in public school.
you didn’t say some christians are that way … you basically said all christians. … so it’s fuck me. … nice way to enter the conversation there.
Let me explain it this way. If I am going to sit somewhere, if we as left leaning individuals are going to sit and say “it’s not what you say it’s how others take it and be sensitive to that” then we need to follow the same rules.
If I tell a joke or do something that others take offense to, then maybe it wasn’t ok to say that, or to have done that.
If I am going to tell people to pay attention to how others respond to what they are doing or saying. Then i need to follow those same rules.
It is not ok for me to tell another person, you can’t say that (what ever that thing is) because of how others are viewing it or how it makes them feel. Then turn around and say but i can do what ever I want even if it offends others.
It is not relevant if we are talking about drag, or trans people, or black people, or minorities, or white people, or religions. What is relevant is that we are running around saying “you can’t do that because it is offending others”. Yet look through this thread, go all the way up to my top comment and look at all the responses. Notice something? People are acting like this was totally ok even though there are a shit ton of people that it offended.
So it’s ok for the left to put in rules that says “you can’t do that because it is offending others, but we the left can do what ever we want”. That makes sense?
and you are telling me to change my tune?
I kind of see where you are coming from, but doesn’t it make a difference WHY somebody is offended?
If I, for eclxsmple, use the N-Word, the offence this rightfully causes is rooted in it being used to speak about slaves in the past. I can understand that. I understand why this could hurt black peoples feeling. So I don’t use it.
The root of offence on the Paris case seemes to be that some Christian Fundamentalist (wrongly) think that Drag-People imitated the last Supper. Their offence is based in them hating Drags. That is nothing I can emphatize with. So I don’t see their offence beeing justified, since It is rooted in hate.
Would they be offended if white males immitated the last supper during the ceremony? Possible, and if so then I’d be interested to hear on what basis, since the scene has been mimiced in pop culture a lot without it causing any offence (on a level that would have made it noticeable to me).
Ao that’s the difference. I don’t blindly stop to do things the left labels as offensive. But If I understand how and why it causes people harm using phrases or doing things then I might change my behaviour on that base. Not because “the left says so” but because I can emphatize and understand the point. In this case I can do neither.
Paradox of tolerance. Christians are actively trying to invite violence against LGBT people by calling them groomers. That’s the basis of their outrage, so it is simple to dismiss it as hateful or inauthentic.
Religion has been behind so much discrimination over the centuries. I, as a leftist, will never care to not offend religion.
Also I’m very strongly of the opinion that being a leftist is about ending capitalism. The acceptance/bigotry spectrum is a different axis. And while ending bigotry is an important fight, it’s a separate one from ending capitalism.
It wasn’t the last supper or anything with Christianity. Maybe if they were actually educated instead of being anti-schooling…
https://x.com/AukeHoekstra/status/1817569151432458399
Is there a way to read the thread without having an X account? Because all I see is the first post saying it’s supposed to be the other picture and they don’t look that similar to me. I’m guessing he goes on to explain some of the context? In other self replies that I can’t read?
I wish people would stop using X/Twitter because of this kind of shit. Everyone needs to move over to Mastadon or at least Blue Sky, something I can read without having an account and being logged in.
Yes, here’s the unroll…
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1817569151432458399.html
I would like to hear from the actual people, rather than some historian just coming up with something that could be an excuse.
Additionally, I regularly go to museums, I took art elective art classes in both HS and college, including art history, and I’ve never seen this painting. Im willing to bed 99% of people haven’t even heard of the artist. So attacking people for not making this connection ss “ignorant” seems to be a bit much.
hard disagree. you assume that if you give them the same respect that you ask for, that they will give it back in return. you’re talking about christians. they just want to subjugate everyone else to their standard of living.
nope. fuck them. they are the enemy. they are the barrier to living in a better world. they do not understand cultural differences and don’t want to. they are a problem to be solved, not a class of people who must be tolerated. goose and gander thinking will get you nowhere.
so because I’m a christian … it’s fuck me? ignoring the fact that i do my best to treat everyone equally. ignoring the fact that I want a constitutional amendment that says “on average for a given voting precinct the people shouldn’t be standing in line for 8 hours, the average should only be 30 minutes so minorities aren’t disenfranchised from voting” … ignoring the fact that I believe everyone should have the right to marry who ever they choose (as long as they are consenting adults… your statement is
“you’re talking about christians, they just want to subjugate everyone else… fuck them”
that’s also ignoring the fact that I do not believe that the bible should be taught in public school.
you didn’t say some christians are that way … you basically said all christians. … so it’s fuck me. … nice way to enter the conversation there.
ACAB