Russian President Vladimir Putin promised Friday to "immediately" order a ceasefire in Ukraine and start negotiations if Kyiv began withdrawing troops from the four regions annexed by Moscow in 2022 and renounced plans to join NATO. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy rejected what he called an ultimatum by Putin to surrender more territory.
Plus Russia doesn’t even control all of the regions they’ve annexed. This is asking Ukraine to give up more territory than Russia has occupied and agree to never join NATO for noting in return.
The end of a war on their territory is what UA would get in return.
UA is already screwed under any realistic outcome. Even unrealistically, even if they somehow retained the Donbas region against all trends, they have now mortgaged their assets to Western interests and must pay back huge loans that were called “aid” in the Western press. The most impoverished country in Europe will be stripped for parts and exploited to work on land and factories and offices that are owned by foreign interests.
There is not going to be a fair or good outcome for Ukrainian people. They are the victims of larger and deeper forces than the mere terms of some peace deal proposal. The sooner the war ends, the better.
You’re right, only the pro-genocidal white supremacist West gets to decide that Ukraine should still fight after losing 3 entire militaries, sacrificing most of their military aged citizens, and having their production decimated by a vastly superior military. Only the West gets to decide that Nazis should be funded, armed, and trained openly.
Really? Seems to me like they were trying to capture kiev and depose the government and quickly set up one friendly to them. You think that’s happened?
One has to be gullible beyond belief to believe in the premise that Russia was trying to capture Kiev with 100k troops. In fact, we now have admissions from Ukrainians themselves that Russian aim was to get Ukraine to accept negotiations in Istanbul. This was almost achieved, but the west sabotaged them and here we are now. The terms Ukraine would have received at the time were immeasurably better than anything it can possibly hope for today.
Of course Russia’s aims were to get Ukraine to accept their terms in Istanbul, namely that they get to keep what they’ve stolen. Fundamentally the same offer in the headline here.
It makes perfect sense as a diversion, and plenty of military experts explained how this diversion pinned large parts of Ukrainian army in the west while Russia secured positions in the east.
The fact that you get your ideas about the war from these sorts of youtube channels as opposed to people with actual military experience explains why you believe in nonsensical things.
Of course Russia’s aims were to get Ukraine to accept their terms in Istanbul, namely that they get to keep what they’ve stolen. Fundamentally the same offer in the headline here.
The offer in Istanbul was completely different. It required Ukraine to implement Minsk agreements which both Ukraine and the west claimed to support, and to stay neutral. Now, Ukraine is losing large parts of its territory, and the deal will only get worse. At least learn a bit about the subject you’re attempting to opine on.
Apparently at least 134 lemmy users who claim to support Ukraine seem to think that yes, Ukraine should be flattened rather than have peace. With friends like these, who needs enemies? But then it’s pretty clear that most of them don’t actually care about Ukrainian people, since it’s fine with them that Ukrainians who want nothing to do with it are being conscripted and forced to fight against their will and die so long as that mean old Putler doesn’t get his way!
Plus Russia doesn’t even control all of the regions they’ve annexed. This is asking Ukraine to give up more territory than Russia has occupied and agree to never join NATO for noting in return.
The end of a war on their territory is what UA would get in return.
UA is already screwed under any realistic outcome. Even unrealistically, even if they somehow retained the Donbas region against all trends, they have now mortgaged their assets to Western interests and must pay back huge loans that were called “aid” in the Western press. The most impoverished country in Europe will be stripped for parts and exploited to work on land and factories and offices that are owned by foreign interests.
There is not going to be a fair or good outcome for Ukrainian people. They are the victims of larger and deeper forces than the mere terms of some peace deal proposal. The sooner the war ends, the better.
Would you rather Kyviv be flattened? The side that has lost a war doesn’t usually get to dictate terms.
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You’re right, only the pro-genocidal white supremacist West gets to decide that Ukraine should still fight after losing 3 entire militaries, sacrificing most of their military aged citizens, and having their production decimated by a vastly superior military. Only the West gets to decide that Nazis should be funded, armed, and trained openly.
And you pro-genocide Amerikkkan propagandists don’t get to dictate to Ukraine to fight to the last Ukrainian for American interests.
so brave
So stupid to support a dictator
So you admit being stupid for supporting a dictator who banned opposition parties, shut down free media, and cancelled elections?
Putin that applies to, not Zelenskyy.
Ah things that happened in Ukraine apply to Russia. That’s some impressive galaxy brain logic you’ve got going.
Putin jailed opposition parties and critical journalists. He holds elections, but doesn’t give the actual numbers, meaning they’re just polls.
Who lost though?
I mean looking at Russia death count, economy, status, and making NATO stronger. I say Russia has.
The Ukraine lost. It’s joever.
Now they’re going to concede even more of the territories they were carrying out their Nazi ethnic cleansing on.
Yeah so why should Russia dictate the terms?
Because Russia won the war.
Really? Seems to me like they were trying to capture kiev and depose the government and quickly set up one friendly to them. You think that’s happened?
One has to be gullible beyond belief to believe in the premise that Russia was trying to capture Kiev with 100k troops. In fact, we now have admissions from Ukrainians themselves that Russian aim was to get Ukraine to accept negotiations in Istanbul. This was almost achieved, but the west sabotaged them and here we are now. The terms Ukraine would have received at the time were immeasurably better than anything it can possibly hope for today.
It makes no sense as a diversion. Way too much effort for that. They thought they’d face little resistance, similar to Crimea.
Here’s a game theory analysis on the causes of the war. https://youtu.be/pBwT-5z9R5A
Of course Russia’s aims were to get Ukraine to accept their terms in Istanbul, namely that they get to keep what they’ve stolen. Fundamentally the same offer in the headline here.
It makes perfect sense as a diversion, and plenty of military experts explained how this diversion pinned large parts of Ukrainian army in the west while Russia secured positions in the east.
The fact that you get your ideas about the war from these sorts of youtube channels as opposed to people with actual military experience explains why you believe in nonsensical things.
The offer in Istanbul was completely different. It required Ukraine to implement Minsk agreements which both Ukraine and the west claimed to support, and to stay neutral. Now, Ukraine is losing large parts of its territory, and the deal will only get worse. At least learn a bit about the subject you’re attempting to opine on.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/pBwT-5z9R5A
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/pBwT-5z9R5A
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
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of course it’s a lemmy.ml account
First of all that’s not a argument, and second of all you’re on lemmy.ml Braniac.
Apparently at least 134 lemmy users who claim to support Ukraine seem to think that yes, Ukraine should be flattened rather than have peace. With friends like these, who needs enemies? But then it’s pretty clear that most of them don’t actually care about Ukrainian people, since it’s fine with them that Ukrainians who want nothing to do with it are being conscripted and forced to fight against their will and die so long as that mean old Putler doesn’t get his way!
Removed by mod