- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
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He’s a threat to democracy, quick, make voting for him illegal!
Why exactly do you want to vote for a treasonous insurrectionist? Why should such a person be allowed to run?
Do you really think it’s undemocratic to protect democracy from someone approaching fascism?
I dont. I dont like trump. I hope he gets convicted for his crimes. But so far he hasnt. People are direly minimizing how dangerous a precedent it is to bar a frontrunner candidate from an election. That is millions of Americans who are being told they cant vote for who they want to, by the opposition party. Later on Trump will preach to them about democracy being taken away from them, and theyll have quite the reason to believe him. This wont go well.
It wouldn’t be a dangerous precedent. What WOULD be a dangerous precedent would be to let someone who clearly engaged in insurrection run for President unmolested.
If Donald Trump didn’t want to be removed from state ballots he shouldn’t have incited a violent insurrection when he lost last time.
This was an easily avoidable outcome.
No, you see, it’s only democracy if you crawl up to people who make a literal coup attempt against a democratic government, put a shotgun in your mouth, and beg them to pull the trigger. THAT’S the true meaning of democratic government!
basically everyone is just explaining to me that it’s illegal to vote for him. That’s what I just said. Explain it all you want but it ain’t democracy.
it never was a simple democracy or he never would have won an election with fewer votes
Do you think he should have won with fewer votes?
…no??? But he did!
It’s regulated democracy.
It turns out that if you don’t regulate things to some extent, humans exploit them. Who would’ve thought huh?
Plus, did you forget what the insurrection was about? You don’t get much more undemocratic than trying to flatout deny the results of the democratic process.
In one case you have a democracy with defenses against corruption (imperfect but still present), in the other case you have something that is just flatout not democracy in any definition of the word.
Theres a lot of regulated democracies in the world. North Korea has elections every 4 years. For allowed candidates of course.
I can’t vote for:
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Arnold Schwartzeneggar <- Constitution regulates, saying,“Sorry, not born here”
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Billie Eilish <- Constitution regulates, saying,“Sorry, not seasoned enough. Try again in a few elections.”
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Donald trump <- Constitution regulates, saying,“Sorry, you engaged in insurrection. Fuck right the hell off.”
Not saying I would if I could, just saying.
Right, again telling me its illegal, i already know. It aint democratic for all those examples. Especially the age one, man we need younger reps.
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Well when you establish democracy after you’ve already destroyed the entire foundation of it, it makes it a lot easier to get the results you want.
Exactly why the insurrection was kindof an issue.
Pretty bad faith to argue North Korea though, like there aren’t a lot of other things with the situation that make it massively different from whats happening here.
No I’d say North Korea’s whole situation boils down to that concept of state sanctioned candidates. For a situation a bit closer to ours, id point to Russia barring candidates from running for opposing the war.
Okey dokey… I can see there’s no point in continuing to engage here. Bye now 👋
The Senate is not democracy. Within the Senate, the smallest state is equal to the largest state. Wyoming is equal to California.
The Bill of Rights is not democratic. The Bill of Rights restricts voters from inflicting their populist will on a minority that does not share their beliefs.
The judicial branch is the least “democratic” concept within the Constitution. The judicial branch grants overwhelming authority to a small, unelected group, and makes that group responsible for dealing with all matters related to the accused. We don’t get to vote on whether to spare the accused, or feed them into a woodchipper; that power has been stripped from the people, and is thus undemocratically wielded.
Section 3 of the 14th amendment is not “Democratic” in the same way that the Senate, Bill of Rights, and Judiciary are not “Democratic”. It is constitutionally essential for the same reasons that the Senate, Bill of Rights, and the Judicial Branch are essential.
Most of these are flaws in how our government works. No person’s vote should count more than anothers, but thats just what disproportionate representation accomplishes in the senate and the electoral college.
The Bill of Rights itself was democratically ratified. The majority of people dont want minorities to be discriminated against.
And boy the supreme court is a mess lately. The lifetime appointments and lack of ethical oversight.
The Bill of Rights itself was democratically ratified.
So was the 14th amendment.
“illegal to vote for him” lmao you make it sound like you’re gonna get arrested for doing it. No one cares if you write his name in, his names just not going to be on the ballot because he’s a traitor.
You can still write in his name on the ballot. Nobody is going to arrest you for that. Ridicule you, sure, but not arrest you.
write in ballots for him were also banned from the colorado ruling
You’re still allowed to do it, they just won’t count votes for anyone not eligible
How democratic
He’s removed from ballots, people won’t go to jail for voting for him, it’s just more inconvenient to do so.
I mean, when you violate one of the few laws above all the branches that is regarding whether you’re allowed to be elected…
One is oligarchy, one is fascist. American democracy is arguably dead long ago.
I get where you’re coming from but wanting an option other than corporate politicians is very different from willingly electing your last president as a childish incompetent dictator.
It’s a bit too reductive to turn the statement “American democracy has been dead a long time” to “we want more candidate options”.
The real problem isn’t some rhetorical or presentation problem, it’s that we have hard data that public opinion has actually no influence on laws. Only people within the oligarchy (e.g those with massive amounts of capital) influence the law. That’s not democracy, even if you present it as such by having people tick a box every 2/4 years.
To have a real democracy you need voting in ways that actually impacts people’s day to day lives. By far the most influential version of this would be democracy in the workplace, but we don’t have that, we have authoritarian dictatorships in the workplace. It’s still legal to rent people with capital, it’s legal to own forms of private, non-personal property (e.g factories), and as long as we have rules like these, organizations will be led by authoritarian capital, and not by grassroots democracy.
Voting for Trump is a statement by the many that that since democracy isn’t working, we might as well drop the pretense and go full autocratic. We’ve seen the death of democracy several times because greed always reigns.
And that statement is stupid as fucking shit.
It may well be, but people are looking for authenticity and economic security. People don’t want politicians backtracking and giving empty promises. There’s a reason people from the Rust Belt support Trump and perceives him who “says it like it is.”
The Roman Republic fell because the elites pretended they care for the people, and the people want someone who would do things for them and “says it like it is.” Same thing happened leading to the rise of Hitler.
I’m oversimplifying the reasons for the decline of Roman Republic and rise of Hitler, but the common denominator to democratic decline is growing wealth inequality and oligarch corruption. Sure, even before Trump’s election and Brexit, many analysts have warned of widening gap between the rich and the poor, and predicted the consequences if these aren’t addressed.
Another reason Hitler rose to power was even though the Nazi party only maintained something like ~30% of the government, the other factions of the government couldn’t come together and unite against a common enemy, so it was easier for Hitler to cull influence and support. The US doesn’t have as many parties as they did back in the 1930’s, but within the Democratic party the centrists, moderates, progressives, etc ALL need to fall* behind Biden, as well as most independent voters, otherwise it could very well be game over for democracy in the US.
The Germans thought the same when they elected Nazi party officials in the early 30s. The problem is voting for trump is not a protest; it’s ushering in a bona fide fascist dictatorship.
If you want to make a statement, vote for RFK or something, not someone openly calling for executions, genocide, and the end of democracy. That’s not a statement, that’s voting to ensure you never get to vote again.
Trump is fully dry humping the greed
