Mr Biden’s speech is his first major campaign event of the 2024 election season
President Joe Biden marked the third anniversary of the January 6 attack on the Capitol by warning that the issue of American democracy will be “what the 2024 election is all about,” as he runs against former president Donald Trump once more.
Mr Biden, who spoke near the Valley Forge historical site where George Washington and the Continental Army were encamped during the winter of 1777 and 1778, told attendees that they were there “to answer the most important of questions: Is democracy still America’s sacred cause?”
“This isn’t rhetorical, academic, or hypothetical. Whether democracy is still America’s sacred cause is the most urgent question of our time,” he said.
Mr Biden said his speech, his first major event of the 2024 election season, was “deadly serious,” and about a topic that needed to be raised at the outset of his campaign.
1/6 - Never Forget.
This is the consequence of putting conservatives in power.
Not only that, but if they get in power again, there won’t be a “next time.”
Project 2025 - Never Forget.
Indeed, Hitler’s first coup failed as well.
Massive efforts deprogramming cultist behavior needs to be priority. How does one get through to these people, or do you just write them off as broken and focus on those you can save or still on the fence? (we know this is the strategy of the Right, after all).
How does one get through to these people, or do you just write them off as broken and focus on those you can save or still on the fence?
The only tactic I’m familiar with that can actually get through to the self-centered conservatives is called Deep Canvasing, and it’s quite effective.
Had not heard of this technique being applied outside qualitative research (although its goal is the opposite of qualitative research, the methods are near identical). Thanks for introducing me to this.
Now. We just need to find one, just one billionaire on our side to fund it.
Unfortunately in the US deep canvassing is not a viable strategy for most political campaigns since it’s too resource intensive. It’s far more effective to canvass as way of identifying likely voters. Then you can make sure they vote when the time comes.
I can’t say for sure if it’s viable at scale or not. I can say with certainty that it was a big part of why California finally approved same-sex marriage in the early 2000s.
You don’t have to convince everybody, just enough to tip the scales in your favor.
I think you might have your history mixed up. The courts legalized same sex marriage in California in 2008 but it was banned again after proposition 8 was passed by voters. It’s possible deep canvassing was used in the campaign against proposition 8. However, it certainly didn’t tip the scales. Same sex marriage only became legal again in 2013 thanks to a different court case that invalidated the proposition.
That said, I do think there are contexts where deep canvassing may be effective. For example, similar methods are an essential part of labor organizing. Progressive causes are just too resource poor in the US to use such methods at scale.
Thanks! I read about it in the book How Minds Change sometime last year, so I probably got some of those details a bit mixed up.
Unfortunately, that’s not how it played out. California residents actually voted for proposition 8 which banned same sex marriage. It wasn’t until a court case invalidated said proposition that same sex marriage became legal.
That’s great, but like many other efforts, it’s only really effective face-to-face, one at a time. There are millions of these people who have been mass-brainwashed by media targeting them in the hundreds of thousands.
We need to combat that with similar efforts, or we’ll all be dead before it works.
What we really need is for anti-cult psychology experts to team up with viral video producers to make loads of deprogramming content that will actually pierce the snowglobes. And we need it yesterday.
God damn did they setup that name for Fox News to scream it 24/7.
Beware the extended conversation with the communist, the colored, and the witch!
When Biden wins, who’s betting we’ll see Trump on the ballot again in 2028? And if not, in 2032? And so on, and so on…and if not him one of his kids…and if not them someone far more insidious and intelligent than them all…this is only the beginning. Trump is just the tip of evil rearing its horrific head.
What frightens me: who is going to be the next Trump? Let’s face it, there will likely be another Republican president at some point. Our election system almost guarantees it. Will they do the decent thing and try to work towards the betterment of the country, or will they continue their predecessors’ path towards dictatorship? The other front-runners don’t inspire much confidence in the former (exception: maybe Christie, but there’s virtually no way he’ll win).
Nearly every Republican that voted to impeach Trump lost their primary vote, so I only see them going further right, and a lot of people seem to be okay with this.
If it’s someone like Mike Johnson then people are going to become nostalgic for Trump lmao
There are no other front runners. They are all polling double digits behind Trump.
True. He will win the primary. I’m saying that everyone, but Steve Christie, is more than happy to continue down the path Trump started. This is a trend I doubt will change after Trump is gone.
Steve?
short for Stevetopher
We’re living in a time when creating extremists is too easy. People used to have to stand in little rooms full of disgruntled people and yell into a microphone. They had to organize and create newspapers and pamphlets. They had to have money to spread their message. They had to lose money to spread their message in hopes of taking power. It took years to rile up enough people to create problems.
Now, any dangerous person has the ability to reach an audience with ease.
It has gotten so bad that even people who aren’t even remotely connected to the internet are extremists. Pawpaw with his flip phone stands at the gas station being radicalized by his old work buddy.
I actually feel like I have to just have faith that everything will work out and our system can save itself.
I hope we don’t end up having to rebuild it all one day with some big nasty lesson we learn and then forget again.
Republican politicians only care about winning. If Trump fails yet again, they will change their strategy. The right wing base are mostly subservient people so they’ll fall in line.
Fascist movements oftentimes fizzle out. There’s generally a cult of personality involved with these movements, and when the leader dies it tends to fade away. Trump isn’t young nor is he healthy, it’s very unlikely he’ll live to 2028. Same goes for a lot of his supporters in the boomer generation.
Sure there is a good number of fashy types in the younger generations but not enough to win an election.
Most important thing is that young people go out and vote in this election.
Please stop conflating Boomers with Trump. I’m def a Boomer and I hate the guy. Also check out the faces in the 1/6 crowd; plenty of younger types there…
That’s cool, but the data says 53% of boomers voted Trump last election. The majority of voters of younger generations voted Biden.
If it makes you feel better, 66% of the silent generation voted for Trump. Of course the logic that they are dying off applies to them even more so than with boomers.
And yes, this is all about the margins, but that’s just how elections go.
53% is not insignificant, but it’s not in “let’s generalize the generation” territory. (Not saying that you intended to do that, but that may be the appearance.)
Note this terrifying poll recently that shows Trump beating Biden 37% to 33% in under-35s: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/01/trump-biden-latino-voters-poll
It’s one poll and likely overstating Trump support in the general, but it’s absolutely shocking to me for Trump to be leading any poll any time in that age group. My assumptions would have been Biden up 20+ points for that demographic. But propaganda works, and people’s capacity to forget in 2024 seems rivaled only by their capacity to not pay attention in the first place. We need to seriously consider that reliable demographic assumptions are breaking down in the worst ways possible.
Just for a potential acquiesce, most young people conflate conservative/boomers to the mindset, not the age range. It doesn’t matter if genx is conservative, they’re boomers. It’s an unfortunate conflation but it’s the reality given that such a high percentage of people hold those politics.
It is funny, since the boomers were also the hippie flower generation. Which is why it’s sad that so many are also simping for fascism.
I wouldn’t be too sure Biden will win. Trump appears to be beating Biden in the polls at the moment.
Hmm, I don’t understand why my upvote/downivote ratio was so low on this comment: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/
Is democracy still America’s sacred cause?
With one of the shittier implementations of it in the world, I think it’s not. Capitalism seems more sacred to the US, anyway. In a truly democratic system, the US would have a decent and cheaper healthcare system, a sensible way to report taxes, a political class actually responsible to the people, no “political dynasties” etc.
Also, Biden wouldn’t be president, or at least he couldn’t campaign as a protest candidate against Trump.
Trump is not “willing to sacrifice democracy”. He’s actively fighting against it. The guy is not behaving like “democracy is important, but me being president is importanter”, he’s going “I lost because of democracy, so let’s get rid of it”.
American healthcare system is very good and affordable for a large majority of Americans. Sure it sucks if you’re poor, but most Americans are not poor.
Taxes are not that hard to do. The vast majority of people get a single income statement from an employer and use the standard deduction. Could it be better? Sure but it’s not bad for most people.
American healthcare system is very good and affordable for the vast majority of Americans. Sure it sucks if you’re poor, but most Americans are not poor.
Taxes are not that hard to do. The vast majority of people get a single income statement from an employer and use the standard deduction. Could it be better? Sure but it’s not bad for most people.
This is just…
My god dude. Try living in another country for a while. You’re speaking like an abuse victim who keeps defending their abuser. The US’s societal infrastructure, including health care and taxation, are 50 years behind the rest of the developed world. Americans pay top-tier costs for bottom-tier society.
“Sure it sucks if you’re poor” is the kinder sibling of saying “Got mine, fuck you!” Being poor sucks everywhere, just by nature, but the entire point of societal programs is to uplift the poorest and make it suck less, not to give handouts to the rich so they can say “Well geez, at least I’m not poor!”
“Sure it sucks if you’re poor” is the kinder sibling of saying “Got mine, fuck you!”
Yes it does suck. I didn’t say it was perfect, or that I was a fan.
But our healthcare system works very well for most people. Acting like it doesn’t work for some people is just ridiculous.
IDK if this guy is a troll or has never been poor.
I have been very poor. Idk why you guys keep harping on being poor. Most Americans are not poor.
The KFF Health Care Debt Survey finds that 41% of adults currently have some debt caused by medical or dental bills.
https://www.kff.org/report-section/kff-health-care-debt-survey-main-findings/
So sure, ‘most’ in the technical sense in that more people are not under medical debt than are. But ‘works’ is questionable even for those who aren’t.
“In a truly democratic system, the US would have a decent and cheaper healthcare system”
I was responding to the OP.
Acting like it doesn’t work for some people is just ridiculous.
I’ll just say it again and leave it at that: you need to spend some time in other countries. Not at a tourist, but as a resident. Your eyes need to be opened.
I have better healthcare than people in the countries I have visited.
This sentence is not accurate for all Americans.
Right. And you are only looking at things vs how they compare specifically to you. Thus, your eyes need to be opened.
Do you think youve in anyway shown we don’t live in a democracy?
We’re not poor. We’re also over $10,000 in medical debt. Anyone can get sick. Sometimes very sick. Even if you say you have a good immune system because you exercise and take care of yourself.
And before you say it, we have good insurance.
I didn’t say people don’t get sick or don’t have medical debt
You said it is “very good and affordable for the vast majority of Americans.” I already showed you elsewhere that over 40% of Americans have medical debt. How is a system where 4 out of 10 people go into debt just to get the care they need “very good” or “affordable?”
In a democracy which of those groups would win an election?
You didn’t answer my question: How is a system where 4 out of 10 people go into debt just to get the care they need “very good” or “affordable?”
“very good and affordable for the vast majority of Americans”
It’s good for the 6 in 10.
You can always say, “it’s not that bad” but what I’m saying is that it’s worse than in much of the world.
In the places I’ve lived, if I got sick, especially if I got a long-term sickness, I am not just not paying for it, I get money from my insurance, so my life doesn’t go to shit because I can’t work. And the healthcare systems here are cheaper. My insurance costs around a grand a month, and there are no copays, maximums, deductibles or other bullshit. I am not bearing the risk of me falling ill. And it costs the state less than the US is paying for what they have, both per capita and in total.
And with taxes. I haven’t done my taxes ever. I get a mail saying that my taxes have been done for the year, and I should check it out, I usually have a look if I don’t forget. It is also a cheaper system on both my side and the state’s.
Do you think that means we are not in a democracy?
Why would I? It’s also a stupid and loaded question. Where is the limit for what is a democracy? Sone people may say Russia is a democracy because there are elections. Some other people might say there are no true democracies besides Switzerland with its very common direct votes on issues.
That’s what this entire thread is about.
Never before has a president been more right.
No, he’s actually off base and being a complete dumbass. Trump IS NOT “willing to sacrifice” democracy. He’s actively fighting against it. He actively wants to tear up the constitution. He is an active enemy of the country.
Biden still does not realize the threat he is ignoring. He still has no idea HE is supposed to DEFEND democracy, not just talk about it like a proud father. Democrats are truly pathetic and incapable of standing up to fascists. His tepid words reinforce that point.
bOtH siDeS!
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I think Biden understands the threat of Trump, but he also understands that screaming at people isn’t going to be effective at convincing them.
There’s probably a lot of people that would reject the statement of “TRUMP IS TRYING TO DESTROY DEMOCRACY!” but may be receptive to the message that Trump is “willing to sacrifice democracy.” And yeah, anyone that doesn’t already understand what Trump is trying to is an idiot, but Biden needs idiots to vote for him just as much as the people that understand the consequences of another Trump Presidency. But Biden already has the votes from the people that understand the threat Trump poses.
He shouldn’t be yelling at anyone. He should’ve been quietly working behind the scenes to get the FBI rolling on all investigations and gotten his piece of shit AG to get the ball rolling, too. Instead, the FBI sat on its ass allowing investigations to sit undone and Trump kept merrily showing off top secret docs…
Trump IS an exception. There IS NO PRECIDENT TO SET by prosecuting him properly. Criminals should not be treated special just because they were a politician. That is beyond pathetic of any country.
We literally mock other countries that do this kind of pussyfooting double standard shit.
Trump is currently being prosecuted in two federal cases. What do you want? For him to be prosecuted without a trial?
For this shit show tp have gotten started ASAP. It’s not like it was unclear on Jan 6th what was happening. The fact he’s still LITERALLY FREE three years later is fucking hilarious to defend regardless of what lazy pathetic atfemp has been made.
There is no precedent to set. A fucking criminal already cannot be the president.
The Democrats treating the rise of fascism as if it isn’t a blatant affront to the constitution itself is fucking pathetic. This country is pathetic when the enemy has white skin and citizenship. There’s zero hezitation with any other citizen.
Does he think Trump’s followers don’t know that?
They want that.
No one ever accused them of being smart
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Mr Biden, who spoke near the Valley Forge historical site where George Washington and the Continental Army were encamped during the winter of 1777 and 1778, told attendees that they were there “to answer the most important of questions: Is democracy still America’s sacred cause?”
The president said the violence that day was the “one desperate act” left available to Mr Trump, and pointed out that even though Republicans in the House and Senate — and their allies on the Fox News Channel — had “publicly and privately condemned the attack,” the disgraced ex-president and many of his allies have chosen instead to accept a revisionist history, in which the attack was a peaceful protest and those who’ve been arrested for committing crimes that day are political prisoners.
The president’s appearance at Valley Forge comes as the Department of Justice marked the three-year anniversary of the January 6 attack by noting that there have been 1,265 arrests made of pro-Trump rioters, including 452 who’ve been charged with assaulting or otherwise obstructing police officers that day.
But the president noted how Mr Trump has chosen to lionise those criminals, and how he had “began his 2024 campaign by glorifying the failed violent insurrection at our capitol”.
Mr Biden contrasted the late first president with the disgraced 45th and his supporters, and pointed out that many of the rioters who stormed the Capitol in support of Mr Trump passed by the iconic portrait of then-General Washington resigning his commission as a general in the Continental Army at the end of the American Revolution, setting a precedent of civilian control over the military that persists in the US today.
Continuing, he reminded attendees that the painter, John Turnbull, once called that moment “one of the highest moral lessons ever given to the world” and recalled how Washington “could have held onto that power as long as he wanted”.
The original article contains 1,013 words, the summary contains 314 words. Saved 69%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Trumps as cold as ice
He is willing to sacrifice our democracy
You want paradise
But someday he’ll pay the price, I know
Sounds like the political version of a Foreigner song.
Posting articles with the word “slam” in headline should result in a permanent ban
Writers of articles generally don’t write headlines and people who share them are supposed to post the headline as-is. It’s not worth ignoring an article solely because an editor wrote a clickbait headline.
I was just making a joke, I know I can just filter that word out of my feed, your replies are always so dead serious lol
Rings really hollow when the Democratic primaries are being cancelled in states like Florida where the Democrats are literally rigging their own elections to favour Biden.
You know the political parties are private organizations, right?
And? If Biden really cared about democracy as much as he says, then he’d come out against what’s happening in Florida and North Carolina even though the moves benefit him. Him not calling out the bs in his own party when there’s three other people running for the spot if you include Cenk Uygur makes this message of “I will uphold democracy” ring really hollow.
Private organizations or not, these are people who have spent the time, effort, and campaign funds to have a shot at being the Democratic nominee, and all this election has shown to date with nonsense like this is that there needs to be massive reforms to both the electoral process and how the media covers it. Williamson was polling about the same numbers on the Democratic side as Haley has been with Republicans, and she’s been getting zilch from the media in comparison despite the fact that Biden isn’t even on the New Hampshire ballot (which that in itself, is an issue).
Sir, as long as you sit idly by and do nothing, and worse arm and fund the killing of innocent civilians and veto cease-fire attempts you are a piece of shit.
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Marianne Williamson ought to run in the Republican primary.
She’s got no less chance of winning.
There’s no such thing as a definition of Republican anymore, so she might as well widen it further and in better directions.
There’s plenty of people there who need to hear the more sensible parts of her message, and even more crazy ones who will be attracted to the loonier parts.
Yes let’s blame the virtually powerless person no one knows the name of for undermining our democracy and not aging career politicians who have done nothing except enrich themselves through insider trading and backroom deals
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What a weird choice of words. It’s like saying “I’m willing to sacrifice this mosquito who’s been pissing me off for the past hour”.
“democracy” was never americas “sacred cause”, you’re thinking of stealing land from indigenous people. I don’t think that’s going to stop even if we elect the red maga instead of the blue maga.
Yes, all politicians are exactly the same and you are such a special snowflake for seeing through the illusion, you very smart heckin valid person.
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Wow maybe we should get rid of all of them and make a new government with some popular legitimacy. Oh you were being sarcastic because you support one of the genocide teams, have fun with your star wars or whatever lol.
It’s a pleasant fantasy, but unfortunately it’s just not that simple. Otherwise it’d have been fixed decades ago during the civil rights movement of the 60s and 70s. Real life has no magic that just makes things end well, so they’re far more likely to backfire. This isn’t a hollywood story.
Just, “things” in general, fail more often than not. Businesses, trial runs, new experiments, etc. The ones that succeed are the exceptions, not the rule.
Like, the French Revolution for instance. Did “getting rid of them” work out at all?
The French Revolution gained the common people lots of gains that even their kings weren’t able to roll back without risking pissing off the populace too much. It was a huge improvement on life before. They drastically reduced the power of the church, fixed the antiquated tax system, made nobles taxed, arranged the military by merit, fixed up the laws with the Napoleonic Code, made the government more representational by giving the Third Estate a voice, etc. These things stayed even through Napoleon and the kings after.
Monarchies shouldn’t exist, getting rid of them is good actually.
Revolutions are messy, but if you’re locked in stasis eventually it’s going to break.
“Israel” has killed more civilians in a few months in this one area, as big bad Russia did in almost 2 years of fighting across an entire front line. Any politician who supports that is dead to me.
The French Revolution failed to get rid of the monarchy, they had their king back a generation later.
History is full of important details if you really want to know the truth of why the world sucks so much. It’s not just easy.
Moral of the story: never stop guillotining
Ya a king was forced on them by other monarchies, but their nostalgia for the Revolution set the seeds for the other revolutions that did eventually get rid of their monarchy. It’s not like it lasted long. They had another revolution one king later to get a stronger constitution to restrict the King, and then a revolution during the King after that. Their monarchs were on shaky ground after the Revolution. The common people now had rights and wants, and expectations. They also had a bunch of gains that persisted through the monarchy which I brought up in another comment.
Just to condense your two comments, it’s true, the French Revolution was not all bad by any stretch. Very much a mixed bag.
Yeah, that’s literally in Marx’s 18th Brumaire, maybe pick it up sometime.
The problem is replacing a monarchy with a bourgeois
dictactorship“democracy”Ah, I see. If you can make a proof of concept work, I’ll be interested. Until then, you seem to just have yet another method for accidentally installing dictators.
Trump has proven that in every country there’s a segment of the population that wants the head of state to be some entitled asshole, born into a life of luxury and surrounds himself with gold. Having a constitutional monarchy neutralizes this emotion, as these people mostly care about that person being on a fancy chair (or at a fancy desk like the beautiful Resolute Desk) and their family to be the royal family (or first family). Subservient people want some person that they feel like showing their loyalty to proves their patriotism to their country.
Political cults of personalities are less likely in constitutional monarchy as the subservient people already have a person in that role. Sure the UK had Boris Johnson, but he was a guy that had to mess up his hair so he could look like one of the lads at the pub to get support. And as soon as some dodgy behavior was uncovered, he was quickly removed from power and no one was going to storm Parliament to put him back into power. The subservient types would probably feel like the Queen wouldn’t approve of that kind of thing.
Also note that the only source for casualty numbers in Gaza come from the Gaza Health Ministry which doesn’t make any attempt to distinguish between civilian and non-civilian casualties. By some estimates, the non-civilian casualties in the Ukraine war is up to 500,000.
Also democracy is about choosing the least worst option. Do you think Trump will make as much efforts towards humanitarian pauses and an eventual ceasefire as Biden will? Try to see past your hatred and consider what the best course of action is.
Political cults of personalities are less likely in constitutional monarchy as the subservient people already have a person in that role.
someone’s a free thinker 🙃
Not interested in your spin of the casualty numbers, occupations brutality is clear for everyone to see. You can tell yourself “it’s not so bad” I’m sure some other equally “free thinkers” will believe you.
Biden has been worse than useless when it comes to this, he’s an active enabler. Trump would also be an active enabler, but he’s also a massive pussy and would probably back down once too many US troops get killed or some shit like that. Biden I could see riding this out to the bitter end because some grima wormtongue political consultant wants to cash in on the next election.
Try to see past your hatred and consider what the best course of action is.
Who exactly do I “hate”
Yeah, someone that wants to maintain monarchy and is in alignment with US foreign policy is somehow the contrarian “free thinker”.
You may have been spending too much time online only having discussions with other internet contrarians. The internet lies. This is a propaganda rich environment you’re in right now. The fact that you see someone that thinks a democratic country has a right to exist as being an alien concept to you indicates you should go outside and touch grass or whatever.
Who exactly do I “hate”
You hate Israel so much you’re willing to risk the democracy of your own country as an expression of that hatred. Hatred makes people feel like they’re taking a strong stance on an issue while they’re actually just engaging in self-destructive behaviour. It’s why fascists use hatred to get control over people. It’s an easy way to control people.
“Israel” has killed more civilians in a few months in this one area, as big bad Russia did in almost 2 years of fighting across an entire front line.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the civilian density of the places. Eh probably not.
Yeah, it’s got more to do with the difference between monumental restraint and an intentional genocide.
I’m sorry… did you just praise Russia for its restraint after it invaded Ukraine unprovoked?
Ok, do it then
I don’t really need to do anything beyond the cadre work I’m already doing lol. Our government doesn’t need my help to collapse to infighting. Why would I need to do anything when our own politicians are already going down the most self-destructive path I could possibly envision, short of literally starting a nuclear war?
The why would be because you aren’t a narcissist and care about other people’s lives.
I’m not so sure you’re not a narcissist.
Are you just trying to insult me or was there a point buried somewhere in there?
You’re the one implying you’ll enjoy seeing mass deaths. That’s what the total collapse you’re gleefully hoping for will result in.
Okay. You get that started. What do we do? I assume you will be taking the leadership role and we will see you on the front lines.
My plan is we elect Joe Biden, he provokes world war 3 while maintaining a peacetime economy, the economy collapses, biden loses to trump (who then dies of Ozempic side effects) and a civil war is fought by patriots attempting to get his running mate George Santos into the white house. The survivors get to fight in the water wars 20 years later.
The rest of the world moves on and tries to forget the nightmare that was America.
Remember how in the other comment you claimed I was insulting you when I said you didn’t care if a bunch of people died?
Yeah…
Uh, I think it was the abelism I was finding insulting
Narcissism is not a disability, it is a mental illness. There is a difference. Disabilities mean there are things in normal society you are not able to do without assistance. Narcissists don’t have that problem.
So no, I was not being ableist. I didn’t even say you were a narcissist.
But I’m glad we have you pegged down for “enjoying masses of innocent people dying.” That means you’ve lost every argument by being as bad as anyone genocidal yourself. Thanks for that!
“Both sides do it. Both sides do it.”
Your stupidity is my first belly-laugh of the day, thanks.
Blue maga = make america genocide again
ableist grandpa is a shitty fucking bit
