The worst-case scenario is now a possible one: European troops fighting off an invasion largely alone.
It’s by no means clear the Europeans would succeed. Romanian and other European officials at the exercise in Cincu, about 260 kilometers (162 miles) north of Bucharest by road, voiced concerns about how long it would take for NATO allies to make it to the front.
French four-star General Philippe de Montenon said he’s confident Europe could prevail, even without the US on side. “The direction of history is a progressive disengagement of the United States from the European continent,” he said.
it would really be something else if they fought them off successfully and the united states looked like pussies and assholes
How much can one bullet cost?
Meanwhile USA is fully prepared to comfort Russia.
Let the comments here be a friendly reminder to people that they should block and boycott the .ml instance
I missed the drama. This was the first Lemmy account I made. Is this server overrun with bots now?
So the .ml stands for Marxist Lenin… Just to get you started.
Not really, .ml stands for Mali domain. And just because someone believes in Marxist principle or communism isn’t a issue. Personally for me why I am wary of .ml domain is because often I do see people posting obvious Chinese and North Korean propoganda with shady source and wild claims and their refusal to accept criticism of China or other communist past and present regimes. Also they get really defensive and assume you are pro west or pro imperialism when you happen to criticize china for something and then their whole argument would be bashing the west when both are to fault.
I love how it occurs so naturally that by the time I come into a post that talks about Russia and Ukraine, half the posts are already limited and I can’t expand threads because people replying are ones I’ve already blocked in other posts for being absolutely developmentally challenged.
It’s by no means clear the Europeans would succeed. Romanian and other European officials at the exercise in Cincu, about 260 kilometers (162 miles) north of Bucharest by road, voiced concerns about how long it would take for NATO allies to make it to the front.
Those two things are not synonymous.
Romanian military are concerned it would take allies time to get to the front (I.e. it would take time for NATO to mobilise in the event of an unanticipated invasion of Romania). However firstly that doesn’t mean victory wouldn’t be ultimately achieved (allied forces had a bad time of it during the first part of the second world war, but ultimately were victorious) and secondly it assumes that Russia would be able to rally its forces (what forces) and initiate a surprise invasion despite Europe heavily monitoring Russian military activity. Which all seems unlikely.
I’m also unclear about why 260 km is considered an insurmountable distance. In an emergency that distance could be covered in a couple of hours, (I’m assuming that liberation forces and not required to obey the speed limit) presumably everyone would be going the other way in any case.
That is for the best. The US is a hostile power, and allowing it to embed enemy troops or sabotage NATO operations should not be permitted. Europe is better off without the traitorous Trump Regime.
It sucks that it has to be this way, but to deny the intent and nature of the current United States, is to invite disaster.
That’s not really how NATO works, but I can understand the sentiment of imagining the USA refusing to enact the articles upon a member being attacked.
I didn’t think it was the sort of thing that could be refused? Aren’t things like Article 5 basically a ride-or-die pact that obligates member nations to come to eachother’s defense? At least in my understanding, being a part of NATO at all legally requires each nation to consider an attack against any one of them as an attack on all of them. It specifically isn’t a “if you feel like it” rule, because that doesn’t have the scary MAD implications of Article 5.
Aren’t things like Article 5 basically a ride-or-die pact that obligates member nations to come to eachother’s defense?
They aren’t self enforcing. Someone at the Pentagon actually has to give the order to mobilize
It would be better if the U.S. just waits a minute sees shat happens, and then congress votes to declare war and the executive branch would have to act based upon their vote or would be directly disobeying the legislature again. Congress declares war. Not the executive branch. And in the end we are the only country to enact article 5 in history, when 9/11 happened and NATO countries answered the call even though many probably did not wish too.
The thing here would be that unless Russis initiates the attack, it wouldn’t trigger article 5 and congress could just ignore it.
And a lot of people would like to ignore it even with the long term pitfalls, because all they care about is themselves and right this very second
And how exactly would they force the United States to do anything?
“Join Us or we’ll start a two front war to make you join us” is hardly a convincing argument.
If the US fails to honor NATO’s Article 5 then the rest of the world will worry the US won’t honor their defence packs.
Japan Taiwan Philippines South Korea
Nuclear proliferation will follow
Japan Taiwan Philippines South Korea
Are client states under the occupation of the US military. They aren’t worried the US might fall to act. They’re worried the US might act to remove their leaders and replace them with more pliant ones.
Nuclear proliferation will follow
Why would an occupied territory hosting US nuclear weapons build their own nuclear arsenal?
Why would the US allow them to do so?
This is such a bizarre outlook on reality. You watch Russian TV a lot?
Brother, this isn’t Pravda
Again, very bizzare take. There are people in literally every country that wants foreign influence or bases out, that proves nothing and that number of people is very minimal compared to people who want them. The locals in Okinawa are one such example as the military presence is disturbing and soldiers are not known for ethics. I’m in one of your so claimed “occupied states”, and everyone’s thankful for the alliance (literally no one calls it occupation except Russian people living here who hate everyone who tries to defend themselves from the next invasion).
Random, but did you know an alternate name for Russians where I live is “occupiers”? If you say “occupiers”, literally everyone knows that means Russians.
There are people in literally every country that wants foreign influence or bases out, that proves nothing
You don’t think an enormous population of foreign military resulting in high rates of unprosecuted sexual violence and organized crime demonstrates anything about the state of politics in the host country?
So you believe people in Korea, Japan, and the Philippines at the highest levels of power just… want this for their people? Or do you think they’re so beaten down they don’t believe in their own capacity for self-defense?
Random, but did you know an alternate name for Russians where I live is “occupiers”?
I mean, you keep coming back to Russians, as though you think they’re a different species.
I guess you’d call them, what? Orks?
Is the violent occupation of conquered territory only a problem for you when the occupying army is Slavic?
10 comments and the pro Russia bots are already here
Some of those kinds of comments are typically from terminally online Marxist-Leninists.
Such is life currently: hyperbolic questions in ironic comments like " have you proof about Ruzz agression, because the West…" etc.
Smh, about the contrast between their potential to embrace a grand selfdeception and the arrogant stubbornness to look away from the invasive destruction and killings Shahed drones cause on a daily bases for more than a thousand days.
“everyone i don’t agree with is a bot”
NATO/EU needs to start moving resources more into place. This will cause putin to have to move troops out of Ukraine to balance.
Even along the Ukrainian border, the Russian troops guarding the frontier are their least capable units full of troops typically serving their 1 year conscription. Putin knows that NATO lacks the capacity for a Sneak Attack. Unless Poland orders full mobilization, the Russians won’t move more than token forces to the border.
French four-star General Philippe de Montenon said he’s confident Europe could prevail, even without the US on side.
This is discussed too rarely. Does anybody know of a source that makes a reliable comparison?
Only the former head of the US forces in NATO, Ben Hodges , has oftentimes said similar lines afaik, like here :
Europe should “quit whining” about the threats it faces and “act like the superpower” that it is, according to a former senior US army officer.
Generally, he’s quite confident about Europe defending itself.
The US can go fuck itself with limited support!
Why do we fucking still Need to use military confrontation for everything?
Fr in this modern world with phones, internet and much more, why do we have to confront by sending young people in a year grinder?
I am ashamed of my species
The funny thing is Russia should know full well how effective psyops are. They’re installing friendly far right assholes abusing the senility of boomers. They legitimately have a ton of countries on the path to destroy themselves. They could just… wait a decade and win.
UH OH - you did a ‘leftism’ in the warmongering liberal instance. you get sentenced to several downvotes and a brainwashed accusation!
What a wild thing to say about supporting a sovereign nation in defending its borders.
Is there any credible material proof that Russia is preparing for an invasion of Europe???
They are just barely capable of winning a slow war of attrition against Ukraine, how can you make a credible argument they could achieve any war aims against all of Europe?
You can’t even argue they can take one country at a time, the entire border is riddled with NATO tripwire troops, guaranteeing the direct involvement of each major European military from the get-go.
Is this just fearmongering to drum up support for more military Keynesianism?
They already have invaded Europe. For the second time in the last decade.
Fyi, Ukraine is in Europe.
Fuck USA for abandoning it’s allies, the whole world is realising they cannot be trusted.
The EU is doing the right thing by arming up.
They have invaded Ukraine, a country that is not in NATO nor in the EU, this article is talking about a war with all the European member states of NATO. I think my wording was clear.
And considering rearmament, do you know what the security dilemma is, and what that means for the security of everyone in Europe?
Ukraine is still in Europe no matter how you spin it. Russia has also invaded NATO aligned airspace, cut infrastructure lines in the ocean, likely blew up a critical fuel pipeline, continues aggressive cyber warfare, bombed a railway in Poland, and pays for bots and misinformation campaigns and supports right wing fascism in the US and EU. They rattle their nuclear sabre constantly and have also had illegal incursions across borders like Finland… Tell us again how Russia isn’t a nascent threat to all Europeans after invading a sovereign country twice, downing passenger jets and sending proxy ships for covert unconventional warfare? The EU is under attack already and at least Poland is awake to it.
Russia is still in Europe no matter how you spin it.
Not accoridng to them. They rightfully consider themselves Euroasian, and a growing number of Europeans see them that way too.
So, it’s still in Europe. What’s your point, other then division? Stop with this us/them shit, stop supporting warmongering narratives. Geography is not interested in this bullshit and you shouldn’t be, either.
Russia is currently attacking a sovereign state, murdering civilians and abducting children. Defense against that is hardly warmongering. Europe did not push for it to be us/them, it was Russians who made themselves the morally corrupt ‘them’ by killing people in Europe.
proof that Russia is preparing for an invasion of Europe??? Your wording is clear
Russia is already attacking EU/NATO with their hybrid war. Russia is pushing all these far right movements in europe and usa. They also attacked critical infrastrucure e.g. the internet cables and send their drones into europe. Also Russia send killers into europe to kill certain individuals e.g. in Berlin the “Tiergarten killer”. Russia needs to feel that it can no longer do this without consequence. Europe needs to walk the talk.
It also causes resources to go to the eu’s defense instead of Ukraine’s offense so it’s in Putin’s interest to spread the rumors.
It’s kind of funny how the West is getting beat by its own game.
We only care about the money.
Edit: Apparently this reality upsets a lot of you.
We only care about the money.
Trump does. Oligarchs & dictators too. What’s your point?
The West will only do what it believes will make its rulers the most amount of money.
If Americans think it’s more profitable for their rulers to avoid supporting NATO, then that’s what they’re going to do.
The West
Yeah that really clarified everything about your POV, thank you.
I was clear from the beginning, but ok.
