I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism.
This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie’s ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas
That isn’t what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie’s popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn’t just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called “”“overton window”“” can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas.
Privation alone isn’t enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That’s why you need a vanguard party, and that’s why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn’t in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they’re poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants.
But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party.
They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit.
Oh, just to be clear, I didn’t mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist’s comment.
His messaging was so misleading that we’re still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched.
![[CW: nazi shit] pram glatner](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d4af645b-807d-4c1d-9187-cd6464a0fb9c.png){kind=link}
This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie’s ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas
That isn’t what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie’s popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn’t just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called “”“overton window”“” can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas.
Privation alone isn’t enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That’s why you need a vanguard party, and that’s why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn’t in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they’re poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants.
But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party.
They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit.
Oh, just to be clear, I didn’t mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist’s comment.
His messaging was so misleading that we’re still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched.
Yeah, that’s a much better point.