this is just lazy nazi apologia. you are selling your soul for electoralism, ie nothing. If you’re going to compromise your morals, why not do it for something actually effective instead of AOCIA 3.0
Nope. Because I don’t think the democratic party is going to be effective. But if this guy is going to do progressive things that make even a marginal impact, but has sketchy vibes, I will take that over the ultra-corpratist establishment dem he was running against. If it turns out that he’s fetterman 2, well that’s bad. But if you believe electoralism is ineffective, then it doesnt really matter either way.
To the extent that electoralism is effective, which isn’t much, the lesser of 2 evils is still the right choice. So I’d rather see platner than a republican because, per what he’s said he will do, it is a better outcome.
I do not see voting as compromising morals in any way. Voting is 100% harm reduction and a defense against encroaching fascism. It is not very effective in general, but it is something. And it is obviously not a substitute for direct action, organizing, donating, etc. for effective socialist orgs/causes
Voting is 100% harm reduction and a defense against encroaching fascism.
Just friendly reminder this is a thread about a Nazi tattoo haver who was bodyguard at the fucking Abu-Ghraib and doesn’t even pretend to be repentant about it.
There is no evil too great for Democrats to claim is the ‘lesser evil’. There is no bottom, there is no floor. The dead-end Liberal “harm reduction” shit always results in this race to the bottom of depravity, it’s a fundamentally bad political analysis that keeps being endlessly entertained by the western left.
If you are anti-electoralist, how is that argument coherent? Can you explain what the harm is in voting for the lesser evil (even if they’re still bad) if you’re not treating it as your only level of political involvement?
Senators can literally just serve on committees and vote for bills. Are you worried he will not vote the way he says he will? Or is this about not electing someone with a bad past/values? Or is the concern he is not actually on the left (broadly, he’s obviously not a socialist)?
Because if you’re an anti-electoralist:
worrying about him having legislative power is a bit odd, you don’t believe in the electoral process.
worrying about his past & values is either just about not liking the guy (fine, I don’t either I think he’s sus) or a concern about the way he’d vote - which again, doesn’t make sense
worrying about himnnot actually being on the left (fetterman 2.0) is competely valid, but… again… this is a concern about how he’d vote and the issues he’d support.
I do not like Platner. I think he’s a very sketchy dude. If I were in Maine, voting for him would feel bad. What I am concerned about is the left purity testing itself so hard it purity tests shitty liberal senators from small states who say they want to make some small stand against fascist policies, war, and the capitalist class. I think it is counterproductove and a waste of time.
No he wasn’t, his unit did a one-time patrol in the vicinity of the prison when it was attacked in 2005 (still a horrendous act defending that death camp) but he wasn’t stationed there, nor was he one of the torturers; it was simply notable because it was his first combat experience.
He was a bodyguard who worked for a successor subsidiary of Blackwater for an ambassador in the embassy in Kabul, and that six-month experience supposedly radicalized him
doesn’t even pretend to be repentant about it.
Except he routinely does pretend to be repentant about it, this right here is the disconnect, you ultras wants us to join the great anti-Platner crusade, as if he’s the greatest threat to the left in this country, but you can’t even get basic facts about this asshole correct, and the rest of us are just supposed to pretend like you all don’t have egg on your face.
Like, why do I have more accurate information about this cracker when you’re the ones so up in arms? Sorry, but your unseriousness is showing
Don’t get me wrong, that is despicable. But I stand by what I said: I would rather someone with an extremely fucked up past be in that office if they will enact progressive legislation that will reduce harm in the present/future.
I am very skeptical given his past. But 1) can he do significantly more harm as senator than Collins? I doubt it. 2) are his stated policy goals of taxes on the wealthy, single payer health care, opposing war in Iran, abolishing ICE, etc. good? Yes. It is good to have someone in that office who will vote for those things (IF he actually will). Those things would be good for marginalized groups and bad for the fascists. That is all I care about as far as electoralism goes.
The opposition from the left is a moral one based on the sketchy shit about him. He’s running for senate. He can serve on committees and write bills. That’s the extent of it. What are folks worried he’d actually do?
Opposition from the right is that he’ll vote for the progressive things he says he will.
Left is concerned about who he is (purity testing), the right is concerned about what he’d do (because it’d be bad for them).
Not with regard to electoralism. Electoralism is a game with a very particular purpose for leftists, in my view, and holding to ideological purity/morals will make us lose.
When it comes to actually organizing, someone like Platner would obviously not be a good idea to include. Not without some serious vetting. He could have genuinely changed, but I wouldn’t take that risk in an organization.
Nazi apologia for a war criminal child murderer. You are becoming scum for no reason, you realize that right? You are lowering yourself to nazism for a 0% at healthcare lmao. It’s so pathetic.
Ok well by that logic you want the ultra-Zionist to win and anti-zionism to be discredited as a campaign strategy. Two can play the righteous moralism game
You’ve had comments removed for doing exactly what you are doing now, downplaying Nazism and sporting nazi tattoos, yet you keep doing it. Zioran dead-ender social fascist. Having Marx in your name is a fucking joke, you should change it to Bernard.
Motherfucker did I say the totemkopf is “permissible”? I said most normie-ass Americans can’t identify it as a nazi symbol because they’re political illiterates, it’s an observation of American stupidity not an endorsement of nazi symbolism Obviously that doesn’t apply to SS bolts or swastikas because those are identifiable to the wider burgerreich culture
There is nothing remotely wrong with this comment, making a sociological point about the ignorance of American crackers is not arguing for permission slips to start inking Nazi filth on your skin. The comment was removed for the “motherfucker” not because of me arguing a damn good point
Of course just like that self-righteous dipshit I was arguing with, you also failed to realize I was making a general point about Americans: “Debra down the street may not know what it was, but a 20-year-old marine in 2006…”, which is not me claiming Platner had absolutely no clue or suspicion that it was a Nazi tattoo.
But of course it’s my fault trying to talk sense to uncharitable pro-zionist clowns who just want an excuse to label fellow leftists “nazis”
By the way still haven’t addressed the glaringly obvious point that you literally want an ultra-Zionist to win
you and others in that thread were playing coy and dumb about a fucking 3 tours marine and mercenary having the actual skull from ‘we are the baddies’ in a croatian (read: ULTRA-NAZI) tattoo parlor. I guarantee you every other tat on display in that parlor was also nazi. You were defending Platner, that’s the context in which you decided to declare that nobody has seen the Nazi skull that’s on all their caps and uniforms.
Why is it always the succs with this nazi apologia? Same with the Ukraine crap. Radlibs are fascists. Democrats do genocide. Are you getting it yet? You are the baddies. Why are you teaming up with team baddy
this is just lazy nazi apologia. you are selling your soul for electoralism, ie nothing. If you’re going to compromise your morals, why not do it for something actually effective instead of AOCIA 3.0
Nope. Because I don’t think the democratic party is going to be effective. But if this guy is going to do progressive things that make even a marginal impact, but has sketchy vibes, I will take that over the ultra-corpratist establishment dem he was running against. If it turns out that he’s fetterman 2, well that’s bad. But if you believe electoralism is ineffective, then it doesnt really matter either way.
To the extent that electoralism is effective, which isn’t much, the lesser of 2 evils is still the right choice. So I’d rather see platner than a republican because, per what he’s said he will do, it is a better outcome.
I do not see voting as compromising morals in any way. Voting is 100% harm reduction and a defense against encroaching fascism. It is not very effective in general, but it is something. And it is obviously not a substitute for direct action, organizing, donating, etc. for effective socialist orgs/causes
Just friendly reminder this is a thread about a Nazi tattoo haver who was bodyguard at the fucking Abu-Ghraib and doesn’t even pretend to be repentant about it.
There is no evil too great for Democrats to claim is the ‘lesser evil’. There is no bottom, there is no floor. The dead-end Liberal “harm reduction” shit always results in this race to the bottom of depravity, it’s a fundamentally bad political analysis that keeps being endlessly entertained by the western left.
If you are anti-electoralist, how is that argument coherent? Can you explain what the harm is in voting for the lesser evil (even if they’re still bad) if you’re not treating it as your only level of political involvement?
Senators can literally just serve on committees and vote for bills. Are you worried he will not vote the way he says he will? Or is this about not electing someone with a bad past/values? Or is the concern he is not actually on the left (broadly, he’s obviously not a socialist)?
Because if you’re an anti-electoralist:
worrying about him having legislative power is a bit odd, you don’t believe in the electoral process.
worrying about his past & values is either just about not liking the guy (fine, I don’t either I think he’s sus) or a concern about the way he’d vote - which again, doesn’t make sense
worrying about himnnot actually being on the left (fetterman 2.0) is competely valid, but… again… this is a concern about how he’d vote and the issues he’d support.
I do not like Platner. I think he’s a very sketchy dude. If I were in Maine, voting for him would feel bad. What I am concerned about is the left purity testing itself so hard it purity tests shitty liberal senators from small states who say they want to make some small stand against fascist policies, war, and the capitalist class. I think it is counterproductove and a waste of time.
No he wasn’t, his unit did a one-time patrol in the vicinity of the prison when it was attacked in 2005 (still a horrendous act defending that death camp) but he wasn’t stationed there, nor was he one of the torturers; it was simply notable because it was his first combat experience.
He was a bodyguard who worked for a successor subsidiary of Blackwater for an ambassador in the embassy in Kabul, and that six-month experience supposedly radicalized him
Except he routinely does pretend to be repentant about it, this right here is the disconnect, you ultras wants us to join the great anti-Platner crusade, as if he’s the greatest threat to the left in this country, but you can’t even get basic facts about this asshole correct, and the rest of us are just supposed to pretend like you all don’t have egg on your face.
Like, why do I have more accurate information about this cracker when you’re the ones so up in arms? Sorry, but your unseriousness is showing
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Don’t get me wrong, that is despicable. But I stand by what I said: I would rather someone with an extremely fucked up past be in that office if they will enact progressive legislation that will reduce harm in the present/future.
I am very skeptical given his past. But 1) can he do significantly more harm as senator than Collins? I doubt it. 2) are his stated policy goals of taxes on the wealthy, single payer health care, opposing war in Iran, abolishing ICE, etc. good? Yes. It is good to have someone in that office who will vote for those things (IF he actually will). Those things would be good for marginalized groups and bad for the fascists. That is all I care about as far as electoralism goes.
The worst case scenario is he’s exactly as bad as his opponents openly claim they will be
The opposition from the left is a moral one based on the sketchy shit about him. He’s running for senate. He can serve on committees and write bills. That’s the extent of it. What are folks worried he’d actually do?
Opposition from the right is that he’ll vote for the progressive things he says he will.
Left is concerned about who he is (purity testing), the right is concerned about what he’d do (because it’d be bad for them).
But comrade, don’t you care at all about moral integrity?
Not with regard to electoralism. Electoralism is a game with a very particular purpose for leftists, in my view, and holding to ideological purity/morals will make us lose.
When it comes to actually organizing, someone like Platner would obviously not be a good idea to include. Not without some serious vetting. He could have genuinely changed, but I wouldn’t take that risk in an organization.
you are indistinguishable from a Kopmala voter left-punching people for opposing genocide, you realize that right?
Nazi apologia for a war criminal child murderer. You are becoming scum for no reason, you realize that right? You are lowering yourself to nazism for a 0% at healthcare lmao. It’s so pathetic.
Ok well by that logic you want the ultra-Zionist to win and anti-zionism to be discredited as a campaign strategy. Two can play the righteous moralism game
Oh hey look it’s one of the Platner defenders!
https://hexbear.net/modlog?commentId=6605763
You’ve had comments removed for doing exactly what you are doing now, downplaying Nazism and sporting nazi tattoos, yet you keep doing it. Zioran dead-ender social fascist. Having Marx in your name is a fucking joke, you should change it to Bernard.
All the obsessed stalker posts in the world doesn’t change the fact you want the ultra-zionist to win
literally just had to plug your name into the modlog, because you probably say this shit non-stop. Marx usernames tend to.
Taking the same tact as the Blue MAGA, a bold choice when trying to make the case you aren’t a libshit.
There is nothing remotely wrong with this comment, making a sociological point about the ignorance of American crackers is not arguing for permission slips to start inking Nazi filth on your skin. The comment was removed for the “motherfucker” not because of me arguing a damn good point
Of course just like that self-righteous dipshit I was arguing with, you also failed to realize I was making a general point about Americans: “Debra down the street may not know what it was, but a 20-year-old marine in 2006…”, which is not me claiming Platner had absolutely no clue or suspicion that it was a Nazi tattoo.
But of course it’s my fault trying to talk sense to uncharitable pro-zionist clowns who just want an excuse to label fellow leftists “nazis”
By the way still haven’t addressed the glaringly obvious point that you literally want an ultra-Zionist to win
you and others in that thread were playing coy and dumb about a fucking 3 tours marine and mercenary having the actual skull from ‘we are the baddies’ in a croatian (read: ULTRA-NAZI) tattoo parlor. I guarantee you every other tat on display in that parlor was also nazi. You were defending Platner, that’s the context in which you decided to declare that nobody has seen the Nazi skull that’s on all their caps and uniforms.
Why is it always the succs with this nazi apologia? Same with the Ukraine crap. Radlibs are fascists. Democrats do genocide. Are you getting it yet? You are the baddies. Why are you teaming up with team baddy