Flatpak will depend on systemd – OSnews
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  • dead [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    20·
    2 months ago

    The article is speculative and not confirmed. It’s an opinion piece based a conference talk given by 2 software developers.

    In a blog post last year, one of the developers from the conference, Sebastian Wick said that they are planning a way for flatpak to be able to communicate with systemd. In another blogpost, it says that they don’t want to make flatpak be dependent on Linux or exclusive to Linux systems. It seems systemd will be optional.

    https://blog.sebastianwick.net/posts/flatpak-happenings/

        • Calfpupa [she/her]@lemmy.mlEnglish
          3·
          2 months ago

          For lack of community feedback look up Torvalds previous beef with them, them choosing to remove theming. If they finally listened I’m glad, but personally I’ve avoided gnome since their 2011-2013 GNOME 3 actions. I was trying to find a good series of links but I found this article that seems to sum it up well as of recent events.

          GNOME Tweaks features are still a separate install.

          • hello_hello [undecided, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            12·
            2 months ago

            Torvalds’ “beef” was since 2007 (nearly 20 years ago) and I think he just moved to KDE. Theres a common pattern where user complaints end up somehow becoming objective failures rather than personal preferences.

            GNOME also never removed theming. They adopted a platform library for their apps. You can still apply themes to GNOME apps if you want them to match a specific color palette but the app itself isnt going to necessarily match the style of other applications.

            If GNOME hadn’t created libadwaita (a platform library on top of GTK), then they would actually be doing what their critics claim and centralize gtk development to just suit GNOME since every feature gnome wants will just be written to gtk rather than separated into its own thing.

            GNOME tweaks being separate is not an issue. Its just an app like everything else. GNOME extensions are also just apps. Ive not installed GNOME tweaks since recent versions and its also bundled with some operating systems like Debian (the only thing I really use it for is keyboard remapping for Emacs)

            The attached blog is just a unhinged rant. Theres a graph that literally two lines of GNOME vs. “Other” and inappropriate comparisons of the Linux kernel project and the GNOME project which are two very different entities and I assume is only done so that the author can glaze torvalds for being a “chad” or something.

            Theres no actual critiques of gnomes design besides pointing out already resolved inconsistencies and how GNOME 2 was so obviously better (it only was because people compared a completed product to a new design).

            They could have kept GNOME 2 as a classic mode, and GNOME shell as a new alternative mode.

            This literally exists its called GNOME flashback also the Cinnamon desktop. This person is an idiot and the reason why GNOME maintainers are abrasive now.

            The fact is that GNOME is the most visible project, the most progressive project and the most successful project and so it attracts flies.

            • Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.orgEnglish
              2·
              8 days ago

              In fact, there are a lot of more recent cases:

              • The transition from GTK2 to GTK3 (and later to GTK4).
                • The subsequent creation of MATE and Cinnamon.
              • The controversy (technical, ideological, and political) between FalkTX and Zrythm.
                • This led to Zrythm having to rewrite (almost) everything from scratch using Qt.
              • The whole controversy around Mutter.
              • GNOME’s restrictive design guidelines, which are practically hardcoded into the GTK+ toolkit.
              • GNOME’s push to force components like libadwaita and libcairo everywhere, both inside and outside of GNOME and GTK+ (very much like SystemD, eudev/udev, and userdb), spreading its tentacles into unexpected places, which means a larger attack surface.
              • Massive bloat and significant internal overhead, all while stripping away advanced native features for power users and constantly breaking third-party extensions due to chaotic internal APIs.
              • Questionable architecture and design choices, such as GObject, CSS coupling, or XML-based layouts.
              • A massive exodus of developers and apps (like Wireshark, Audacious, or Transmission, Zrythm itself, or even entire distros like System76 with their shift to Iced for their COSMIC DE) driven by all of the above, along with other issues like stoptheming.app.
              • Even though Linus Torvalds’ statements are old, he has consistently stood by them and hasn’t walked them back in more recent comments; in fact, he doesn’t use GNOME and GTK+ stuff.

              All of this is happening despite the backlash and requests from most of the community.

    • hello_hello [undecided, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      12·
      2 months ago

      GNOME is not the bane of FOSS lol, stop spreading linux chud neckbeard talking points. Flatpak will not depend on systemd it will depend on features that systemd already provides.

      If other operating systems without systemd don’t have those features, then flatpak doesn’t work. It’s basic shit that chuds don’t understand because they want their leet setup to work forever and shift the burden onto volunteers to support their legacy system over anything else.

      Jorge Castro is telling people to shut the fuck up because they’re just asking unactionable questions and then get mad when they don’t get an answer that they want.

  • blobjim [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    111·
    2 months ago

    This is just a proposal by some Flatpak developers. The more important thing is that flatpak will have better cgroups integration which will be cool to see (already in progress I think).

      • Imnecomrade [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        3·
        2 months ago

        I’ve never been presented with any reason as to why people dislike systemd other than “Linux is about choice”, when the choices in my eyes are like having 50 cans of the same soup at the store with slightly different ingredients and half of them are expired.

        My issue with the Linux ecosystem becoming heavily centralized on a few tools that most distros are built on and reducing the modularity of these tools is that it leaves most users vulnerable to attacks on their privacy (and supply chain attacks) and ability to protect themselves from capitalist surveillance when age verification and other dystopian laws take effect, and it becomes more difficult to escape from these dependencies. I also don’t like systemd as much now because of the poor code quality from its heavy use of AI slop.

        I get that many tools are reinventing the wheel, and developers’ free time and funding are very limited, though I believe many tools still serve specific purposes better than others, and it’s good to have a backup when one dev team decides to make a controversial, unethical decision that puts users in jeopardy which happens very frequently.

        When people say “Linux is about choice”, it does sound idealistic, but honestly I believe they are not wrong to an extent. The Linux ecosystem needs to retain its modularity, otherwise it becomes easier to exploit and enshittify like other corporate proprietary operating systems. I wouldn’t care about this as much if we weren’t under threat of this capitalist dominated world.

          • Imnecomrade [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            2·
            2 months ago

            I agree with everything you said. We really need more leftists contributing to the Linux and FOSS space and making media content. There’s too many fascists that have a lot of spotlight in the community. I also believe Flatpak can be a really good way to install user software to minimize maintenance issues of native system packages (as well as the benefit of sandboxing applications and restricting permissions), but I’m really disappointed that they are now considering age verification checks.

            It does make me feel gross to make valid criticisms of these tools being exploited by capitalists, and it’s muddied by chuds who exclaim “muh freedums” and harass developers who don’t have infinite time to support every system.

      • RION [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        No but from like two Google searches it doesn’t seem to be particularly suited to my use case. I’m just running a couple services like a music server and not a particularly advanced user

        • blobjim [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          2·
          2 months ago

          It’s basically a more systemd-integrated version of docker/podman. I think you could run a container without too much trouble by creating an “OCI bundle” from an existing container image and running that. But you’re right it might be slightly more hassle.