Cocaine "is no worse than whiskey" and is only illegal because it comes from Latin America, said Colombian President Gustavo Petro, whose nation is the world's biggest cocaine producer and exporter.
Several things determine the danger of a drug. One of the most important is the “distance” from pleasure to lethal dose. In that regard alcohol is way less dangerous than kokain.
Another risk is how easy you build dependency, and again you can easily enjoy a shared bottle of wine for dinner, or a beer during a break, and even get drunk in the weekend every weekend for years, all without building a dependency, you really have to abuse alcohol to become an alcoholic.
Finally there’s the way you take it, where alcohol is consumed relatively slowly, and the uptake through the digestive system is also relatively slow. Kokain is taken quickly, to obtain a rush and a the high quickly, and the uptake is directly to the blood through mucosa, way quicker than if it had to go through the digestive system.
This makes kokain (cocaine) way more likely to create a dependency, and is also why it’s generally considered more dangerous.
So objectively by perfectly standard measures, kokain is way more dangerous than alcohol. Even without accounting for the extra dangers from kokain being illegal, like the addition of adulterants that are very dangerous.
I have no strong opinion for/against legalizing cocaine, but your statements don’t seem to align with the literature I’ve read on the lethal dose of alcohol vs cocaine - which I’ve always seen list alcohol as worse.
For example the chart below which measures the dose required for an active dose vs a lethal dose as a ratio - alcohol is worse.
Due to its intense and immediate effects on the brain’s reward system, cocaine comes with a very high risk of addiction.
This is a very well established fact in what research shows about dependency. There is absolutely NO WAY cocaine is only slightly higher than alcohol in dependency potential.
It’s also one of the things that make smoking such a strong dependency.
Also both LSD and Psilocybin seem dead wrong from what I know. Both are advised to ONLY take when you are monitored by a sober person. And that’s not because of how “innocent” they are.
LSD and psilocybin are non-lethal and do not develop physical dependencies. Youd have to take and insane amount to die. You are advised to be watched if you are new to the drugs as they are HIGHLY mind altering. It’s not like alcohol or weed, your perception of things completely change. An experienced user is fine on a standard dose alone. But that’s not what LD-50 measures anyway, it deals with direct toxicity. Its not someone jumping through a window because they are tripping and now think they can fly.
OK but they are highly dangerous none the less. I know (2nd hand) of someone who became dependent using it only once!!
Despite warnings not to use it unmonitored, and only once per year.
Its not someone jumping through a window because they are tripping and now think they can fly.
If you get drunk every weekend for years you are an alcoholic and you just don’t know it.
The % of alcohol drinkers who are problematic drinkers is extremely high (about 25% of alcohol drinkers in Canada to give an example), people just don’t understand what is problematic drinking. 10% of the US population over 12 y.o. has dealt with alcoholism in the last year.
It’s 15 drinks per week for men and 8 for women to be considered a heavy drinker. That’s 1 to 2 a day, or just all in the weekend. These are determined by the US CDC. Source
Here in The Netherlands the amount of glasses is higher to be considered a problematic drinker (21 for men and 14 for women) but it is recommended to drink less then 1 glass per day to avoid alcohol related diseases. Source
Because alcohol is so normalized people don’t see it as problematic as other substance abuse but if alcohol would have been invented recently it would have been listed as a class A drug. Alcohol is more toxic to the human body than cocain.
If you get drunk every weekend for years you are an alcoholic and you just don’t know it.
Some people get drunk once a week and don’t drink otherwise.
10% of the US population over 12 y.o. has dealt with alcoholism in the last year.
I never claimed alcohol is without problems. I expect by dealt with, it includes family and friends coworkers and such. That it isn’t personal alcoholism.
I simply don’t believe that. But if they consider getting drunk once AUD, then that an absolutely useless piece of crap paper.
You sound like someone who is defending their own bad habit
That’s decidedly offensive, I drink on average the equivalent of 1 beer per day. I basically never get drunk, but it can happen, maybe a couple of times per year. I drink maybe 2 bottles of wine per month.
So there you go, but you sound like one who likes to make idiotic personal comments.
-Had times when you ended up drinking more, or longer, than you intended?
-More than once wanted to cut down or stop drinking, or tried to, but couldn’t?
-Spent a lot of time drinking, being sick from drinking, or getting over other aftereffects?
-Wanted a drink so badly you couldn’t think of anything else?
-Found that drinking—or being sick from drinking—often interfered with taking care of your home or family? Or caused job troubles? Or school problems?
-Continued to drink even though it was causing trouble with your family or friends?
-Given up or cut back on activities you found important, interesting, or pleasurable so you could drink?
-More than once gotten into situations while or after drinking that increased your chances of getting hurt (such as driving, swimming, using machinery, walking in a dangerous area, or unsafe sexual behavior)?
-Continued to drink even though it was making you feel depressed or anxious or adding to another health problem? Or after having had an alcohol-related memory blackout?
-Had to drink much more than you once did to get the effect you want? Or found that your usual number of drinks had much less effect than before?
-Found that when the effects of alcohol were wearing off, you had withdrawal symptoms, such as trouble sleeping, shakiness, restlessness, nausea, sweating, a racing heart, dysphoria (feeling uneasy or unhappy), malaise (general sense of being unwell), feeling low, or a seizure? Or sensed things that were not there?
-Any of these symptoms may be cause for concern. The more symptoms, the more urgent the need for change.
That’s… insane. If you’re drinking 3 alcoholic drinks per day you’re not considered an alcoholic?? That seems like an extremely warped view of alcohol vs every other drug.
It’s not insane, it’s based on health impact, and probably the fact that 3 standard drinks don’t create dependency.
1 standard drink is broken down in the body in about 1 hour.
This is according to Danish health authorities, 3 standard drinks for men and 2 for women per day on average is the max, it’s recommended to not exceed that.
But even at maller levels, the principles I stated in my first post remain the same.
That defines the daily drinker, but a person who only indulges occasionally, but always gets hammered on those occasions, has a serious problem with alcohol as well. That’s a person who can’t control it, and lack of control is a problem.
Several things determine the danger of a drug. One of the most important is the “distance” from pleasure to lethal dose. In that regard alcohol is way less dangerous than kokain.
Another risk is how easy you build dependency, and again you can easily enjoy a shared bottle of wine for dinner, or a beer during a break, and even get drunk in the weekend every weekend for years, all without building a dependency, you really have to abuse alcohol to become an alcoholic.
Finally there’s the way you take it, where alcohol is consumed relatively slowly, and the uptake through the digestive system is also relatively slow. Kokain is taken quickly, to obtain a rush and a the high quickly, and the uptake is directly to the blood through mucosa, way quicker than if it had to go through the digestive system.
This makes kokain (cocaine) way more likely to create a dependency, and is also why it’s generally considered more dangerous.
So objectively by perfectly standard measures, kokain is way more dangerous than alcohol. Even without accounting for the extra dangers from kokain being illegal, like the addition of adulterants that are very dangerous.
I have no strong opinion for/against legalizing cocaine, but your statements don’t seem to align with the literature I’ve read on the lethal dose of alcohol vs cocaine - which I’ve always seen list alcohol as worse.
For example the chart below which measures the dose required for an active dose vs a lethal dose as a ratio - alcohol is worse.
Source listed here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drug_danger_and_dependence.svg
That chart is simply wrong:
https://www.libertyhouseclinic.co.uk/blog/substance-abuse/cocaine-or-alcohol-whats-worse/
This is a very well established fact in what research shows about dependency. There is absolutely NO WAY cocaine is only slightly higher than alcohol in dependency potential.
It’s also one of the things that make smoking such a strong dependency.
Also both LSD and Psilocybin seem dead wrong from what I know. Both are advised to ONLY take when you are monitored by a sober person. And that’s not because of how “innocent” they are.
LSD and psilocybin are non-lethal and do not develop physical dependencies. Youd have to take and insane amount to die. You are advised to be watched if you are new to the drugs as they are HIGHLY mind altering. It’s not like alcohol or weed, your perception of things completely change. An experienced user is fine on a standard dose alone. But that’s not what LD-50 measures anyway, it deals with direct toxicity. Its not someone jumping through a window because they are tripping and now think they can fly.
OK but they are highly dangerous none the less. I know (2nd hand) of someone who became dependent using it only once!!
Despite warnings not to use it unmonitored, and only once per year.
OK I get the point. 😋
If you get drunk every weekend for years you are an alcoholic and you just don’t know it.
The % of alcohol drinkers who are problematic drinkers is extremely high (about 25% of alcohol drinkers in Canada to give an example), people just don’t understand what is problematic drinking. 10% of the US population over 12 y.o. has dealt with alcoholism in the last year.
It’s 15 drinks per week for men and 8 for women to be considered a heavy drinker. That’s 1 to 2 a day, or just all in the weekend. These are determined by the US CDC. Source
Here in The Netherlands the amount of glasses is higher to be considered a problematic drinker (21 for men and 14 for women) but it is recommended to drink less then 1 glass per day to avoid alcohol related diseases. Source
Because alcohol is so normalized people don’t see it as problematic as other substance abuse but if alcohol would have been invented recently it would have been listed as a class A drug. Alcohol is more toxic to the human body than cocain.
Some people get drunk once a week and don’t drink otherwise.
I never claimed alcohol is without problems. I expect by dealt with, it includes family and friends coworkers and such. That it isn’t personal alcoholism.
Nope, that’s personal alcoholism.
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-topics/alcohol-facts-and-statistics/alcohol-use-disorder-aud-united-states-age-groups-and-demographic-characteristics
You can get drunk once a week and not drink otherwise, that’s still alcoholism, every time you drink you lose control of it.
You sound like someone who is defending their own bad habit and that doesn’t want to admit that it’s alcoholism.
I simply don’t believe that. But if they consider getting drunk once AUD, then that an absolutely useless piece of crap paper.
That’s decidedly offensive, I drink on average the equivalent of 1 beer per day. I basically never get drunk, but it can happen, maybe a couple of times per year. I drink maybe 2 bottles of wine per month.
So there you go, but you sound like one who likes to make idiotic personal comments.
Guess I’ll spoon feed you
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/understanding-alcohol-use-disorder
Removed by mod
The guideline here is 3 standard drinks per day, more than that and you may be an alcoholic.
You can do the above within that limit.
PS:
I think you have a problem with your shift key, you may want to consider buying a new keyboard. it looks pretty stupid with the jumbled writing.
That’s… insane. If you’re drinking 3 alcoholic drinks per day you’re not considered an alcoholic?? That seems like an extremely warped view of alcohol vs every other drug.
Please note this is a maximum! And it’s STANDARD alcoholic drinks:
It’s not insane, it’s based on health impact, and probably the fact that 3 standard drinks don’t create dependency.
1 standard drink is broken down in the body in about 1 hour.
This is according to Danish health authorities, 3 standard drinks for men and 2 for women per day on average is the max, it’s recommended to not exceed that. But even at maller levels, the principles I stated in my first post remain the same.
That defines the daily drinker, but a person who only indulges occasionally, but always gets hammered on those occasions, has a serious problem with alcohol as well. That’s a person who can’t control it, and lack of control is a problem.