• Gnothi@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Why would a cat of all animals be confused about which ones to eat? They are obligate carnivores.

  • I’m pretty sure it’s only common to not eat cats and dogs and small birds for no other reason than because they taste bad/don’t provide much food while also providing other services we find more valuable than they would have as food. Even if that service is companionship. Cats curb pests. Dogs help do all sorts of things. Even birds have uses other than simply pets.

    • MaxMouseOCX@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Read an account of a guy lost at sea, after a while fish eyes and liver were delicacies where mere weeks before he was repulsed by the idea… When the brain decides “ok I’m taking over to keep us alive” you will not only eat things that you normally wouldn’t - you’ll enjoy doing it too.

  • GustavoM@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    How to trigger a vegan with only two words:

    Nature cycle.

    I mean, its kinda funny at how folks believe that we are an evolution of an animal unable to judge and dream to (suddenly) deny our (natural) purpose towards other animals.

  • x4740N@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Cats and dogs both eat meat

    Wild animals hunt and herbivores occasionally eat meat

    So no animals wouldn’t think this as they eat meat the same as us and wouldn’t care at all about eating meat

    So I don’t get what this is trying to say at all

    Edit: also forgot to add that some animals are cannibals for example chickens

      • flucksy_bango@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I’d like to add that domesticated animals that are taboo to eat typically had a use beyond just eating them.

        Dogs guard your property, cats kill pests, horses do work and transportation. You’d only eat those if you were desperate.

        Chickens, pigs, and cows? Not so much. The only one of those I could think with an alternate use would be a truffle pig, which wouldn’t be eaten.

    • sirdorius@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Cats and dogs have no metacognition. They can barely recognize themselves in the mirror. We do. We have the ability to think about our actions, assign them moral value and better ourselves. That ability is completely wasted if you hold yourself to the same standard as a dog or cat. Is it ok to sniff random people’s buttholes because dogs do it? To eat your own children because some wild animals do it?

      • x4740N@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Human beings evolved to eat plants and meat and no you can’t get everything from plants as some nutrients in plants are not digestible and don’t get absorbed compared to nutrients from meat

        Look if you want to be personally vеgаn indent mind and don’t have anything against you for it but when you or other vеgаns attack people who choose to not be vеgаn or have a vegetarian diet then that becomes a problem because you step into the territory of bullying and harassment of others

        • sirdorius@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Vegan diets have been confirmed to be as good as omnivore diets, even better in some aspects, multiple and multiple times by research, so this point is moot.

          We are not attacking you, though your defensiveness speaks volumes. We simply want a better world where billions of animals aren’t tortured and killed every year for a diet that is unnecessary, for the profit of shady corporations and that is contributing to our unsustainable lifestyle.

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                i don’t know about all of their references, but i do know the canadian paper you linked is dated TWENTY YEARS AGO and the ARCHIVED position paper you linked from the AND is expired: it is not the current position of the AND. the australian government’s position is based entirely on that expired position paper.

                and, of course, the NHS regularlyly recommends that people eat dairy and seafood. even if a vegan diet can be made to work, it is not recommended by most dietetic associations (none that i know of) for most people.

                edit: apparently the only paper with which i had no familiarity was the italian position, but the lead in for that details that you need to take special care to ensure you get enough of certain nutrients.

                i’m not a dietitian nor a nutritionist, but even if i were i’m not YOUR dietition or nutritionist, just as you’re not the dietician or nutritionist for anyone on this network. further, veganism is linked with depressive conditions like vystopia, so it’s clear that nutrients aren’t all that is required to be healthy.

                • sirdorius@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  The AND paper from 2016 doesn’t seem expired, just removed from some site redesign: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/ The fact that the position hasn’t changed in more than 13 years should be an indication that it still holds. You don’t need to prove that water is wet every few years to make sure it’s still a valid stance.

                  The NHS respects your life choices, and makes recommendations for nutrients based on those choices.

                  Any talk about nutrition will be prefaced about getting certain nutrients. If omnivore diets had no risk of deficiencies we wouldn’t need dietitians. Any talk about an omnivore diet will be prefaced with fiber, which is easier to be lacking in that diet.

                  I never claimed to be a nutritionist. I was just challenging the outdated notion that you NEED to be an omnivore to have a healthy diet.

                  Vystopia is just a side effect. If I had a cent for every depressing thing in life I would be a millionaire. Dealing with depressing shit is just part of life. Suggesting that someone shouldn’t become vegan because they might get depressed is ridiculous. The same could be said about politics, gay rights, abortion rights etc, etc. Just live in a monastery, don’t care about anything worldly and you won’t be depressed. And veganism isn’t just about being depressed. There is a complementary effect of happiness from feeling connected to and respecting every living being in the world.

      • EmoDuck@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        This post isn’t about the ability to feel pain or sentence, it’s about the paradox of people eating something they claim to feel compassion for. I can feel compassion for both animals and plants but will still eat them

      • Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        Just because there is no indication of their suffering doesn’t mean they don’t suffer.

        • kicksystem@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Dude common, really?

          Plants don’t have a central nervous system. Pain and suffering is not in any way an evolutionary need for plants. We have a CNS and get the impulses, because we have the ability to do something about. Hold your hand above a flame and the pain will make you retract your hand. Hold a flame under a leaf and it’ll just burn.

          Furthermore your claim is currently infalsifiable. We can’t proof that you’re suffer even if you tell me that you’re suffering.

      • MaxMouseOCX@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        They aren’t but they’re not far off… Trees communicate with each other through fungus in their roots, if one is being attacked it let’s the others know, I can’t remember what evasive action the others take but still…

        • kicksystem@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          So what? Traffic lights communicate with each other as well. That doesn’t mean we should grant them moral worth. The ability to suffer and be conscious does.

          • Abnorc@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I don’t know. I wouldn’t venture to eat a traffic light.

            I doubt that we stop at plants not because they’re worth less than animals and it’s somehow morally alright. We stop there because we may not be able to survive without eating some kind of living thing: directly or not. I don’t know if there is a diet that doesn’t involve either plants or animals.

            • kicksystem@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Perhaps. It all depends on how you look at it. Personally I don’t think of plants as moral agents, because they don’t have a capacity to consciously suffer. At least that is according to my definitions.

              But perhaps for some definition of consciousness and some definition of suffering even a plant can suffer. Perhaps according to those definitions even a traffic light can suffer. Sounds crazy, but it all depends on the definition. If something responding to stimuli to serve some goal is consciousness then a traffic light has consciousness. There is no universally accepted defintions.

              Yet then the difference between a pig and a traffic light is so extreme that a cut off point seems reasonable. I certainly also don’t consider mosquitoes as important as pigs. Then we can assign certain moral weight to anything within some range of intelligence and capacity to suffer. At some point we might even have to consider sufficiently powerful AI moral agents. Perhaps the neuron count would be part of that scoring equation.

              The least amount of harm that we can inflict on other living creatures weighted by this set of scores while maximizing our own happiness, yet not over estimating our own worth, should be the goal.

              Under those conditions eating plants is still better than eating animals, because animals eat plants and thus you indirectly cause more plant death by eating animals.

              We would then have some suffering index and could calculate that by going vegan you lower your suffering index by a factor 10, similar to how we know it reduces your carbon footprint by a factor 2 or so.

  • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
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    1 year ago

    I always find it funny that vegans seem to completely ignore fish, they only ever have a pickle with mammals and some birds