This post isn’t about the ability to feel pain or sentence, it’s about the paradox of people eating something they claim to feel compassion for. I can feel compassion for both animals and plants but will still eat them
Plants don’t have a central nervous system. Pain and suffering is not in any way an evolutionary need for plants. We have a CNS and get the impulses, because we have the ability to do something about. Hold your hand above a flame and the pain will make you retract your hand. Hold a flame under a leaf and it’ll just burn.
Furthermore your claim is currently infalsifiable. We can’t proof that you’re suffer even if you tell me that you’re suffering.
Just because they don’t have a central nervous system doesn’t mean they don’t feel. Perhaps there is a different mechanism for pain that we simply haven’t discovered yet.
They aren’t but they’re not far off… Trees communicate with each other through fungus in their roots, if one is being attacked it let’s the others know, I can’t remember what evasive action the others take but still…
So what? Traffic lights communicate with each other as well. That doesn’t mean we should grant them moral worth. The ability to suffer and be conscious does.
I don’t know. I wouldn’t venture to eat a traffic light.
I doubt that we stop at plants not because they’re worth less than animals and it’s somehow morally alright. We stop there because we may not be able to survive without eating some kind of living thing: directly or not. I don’t know if there is a diet that doesn’t involve either plants or animals.
Perhaps. It all depends on how you look at it. Personally I don’t think of plants as moral agents, because they don’t have a capacity to consciously suffer. At least that is according to my definitions.
But perhaps for some definition of consciousness and some definition of suffering even a plant can suffer. Perhaps according to those definitions even a traffic light can suffer. Sounds crazy, but it all depends on the definition. If something responding to stimuli to serve some goal is consciousness then a traffic light has consciousness. There is no universally accepted defintions.
Yet then the difference between a pig and a traffic light is so extreme that a cut off point seems reasonable. I certainly also don’t consider mosquitoes as important as pigs. Then we can assign certain moral weight to anything within some range of intelligence and capacity to suffer. At some point we might even have to consider sufficiently powerful AI moral agents. Perhaps the neuron count would be part of that scoring equation.
The least amount of harm that we can inflict on other living creatures weighted by this set of scores while maximizing our own happiness, yet not over estimating our own worth, should be the goal.
Under those conditions eating plants is still better than eating animals, because animals eat plants and thus you indirectly cause more plant death by eating animals.
We would then have some suffering index and could calculate that by going vegan you lower your suffering index by a factor 10, similar to how we know it reduces your carbon footprint by a factor 2 or so.
I love my basil plant and take care of it, but one day I’ll come along and definitely eat it
Plants are not sentient
This post isn’t about the ability to feel pain or sentence, it’s about the paradox of people eating something they claim to feel compassion for. I can feel compassion for both animals and plants but will still eat them
Just because there is no indication of their suffering doesn’t mean they don’t suffer.
Dude common, really?
Plants don’t have a central nervous system. Pain and suffering is not in any way an evolutionary need for plants. We have a CNS and get the impulses, because we have the ability to do something about. Hold your hand above a flame and the pain will make you retract your hand. Hold a flame under a leaf and it’ll just burn.
Furthermore your claim is currently infalsifiable. We can’t proof that you’re suffer even if you tell me that you’re suffering.
Just because they don’t have a central nervous system doesn’t mean they don’t feel. Perhaps there is a different mechanism for pain that we simply haven’t discovered yet.
I recently found this website and I was reminded of you:
Have a look: doplantsfeelpain.com
🤡🤡🤡
They aren’t but they’re not far off… Trees communicate with each other through fungus in their roots, if one is being attacked it let’s the others know, I can’t remember what evasive action the others take but still…
So what? Traffic lights communicate with each other as well. That doesn’t mean we should grant them moral worth. The ability to suffer and be conscious does.
I don’t know. I wouldn’t venture to eat a traffic light.
I doubt that we stop at plants not because they’re worth less than animals and it’s somehow morally alright. We stop there because we may not be able to survive without eating some kind of living thing: directly or not. I don’t know if there is a diet that doesn’t involve either plants or animals.
Perhaps. It all depends on how you look at it. Personally I don’t think of plants as moral agents, because they don’t have a capacity to consciously suffer. At least that is according to my definitions.
But perhaps for some definition of consciousness and some definition of suffering even a plant can suffer. Perhaps according to those definitions even a traffic light can suffer. Sounds crazy, but it all depends on the definition. If something responding to stimuli to serve some goal is consciousness then a traffic light has consciousness. There is no universally accepted defintions.
Yet then the difference between a pig and a traffic light is so extreme that a cut off point seems reasonable. I certainly also don’t consider mosquitoes as important as pigs. Then we can assign certain moral weight to anything within some range of intelligence and capacity to suffer. At some point we might even have to consider sufficiently powerful AI moral agents. Perhaps the neuron count would be part of that scoring equation.
The least amount of harm that we can inflict on other living creatures weighted by this set of scores while maximizing our own happiness, yet not over estimating our own worth, should be the goal.
Under those conditions eating plants is still better than eating animals, because animals eat plants and thus you indirectly cause more plant death by eating animals.
We would then have some suffering index and could calculate that by going vegan you lower your suffering index by a factor 10, similar to how we know it reduces your carbon footprint by a factor 2 or so.