- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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Missed the point again award. If people want to vote for conservatives, they’re going to vote for conservatives, not conservatives lite. If people want to vote for leftists, they’re going to vote third party, vote for the dipshit threatening to tear it all down, or stay home, not vote for conservatives lite. If you’d take a few seconds to really use your noggin, you’d understand that people are fucking drowning and desperate for a change. Not “lol the guys at the Goldman Sachs fundraiser said we should think about a 1% COLA for social security”, I’m talking burn the house down and start over change. There’s a reason why there’s the phenomenon of the Obama-Bernie-Trump voter or Bernie-Trump voter. It’s not the sexism, it’s the promise of change. Obama failed to deliver, and Bernie didn’t happen, which just leaves us with that fucking guy. The democrats miscalculated twice and thought that voters surely wouldn’t vote for that fucking guy over their promise of change so mild that even fox news would get bored. It’s not the voter’s fault that the democrats failed to put forward a good platform. To the Democratic party and the people towing this line, I say: voters don’t owe you victory. In fact, voters don’t owe you a goddamn thing. Stop blaming them and get your shit together or get out of the way.
When Democrats move to the right in order to capture conservative votes, conservatives don’t believe they’re sincere. But the left does.
Very fucking right. It’s toe the line though if you’re interested in improving things in a very small way.
If Trump is a conman, rapist, fascist, etc. & Democrats still lost to him, says a lot about how shitty & out of touch Democrats have been, maybe you should focus on that?
Or it shows that when you are truly awful, racist, homophobic, transphobic, idiots, your children move away from you to the cities where they don’t have to talk or interact with you, which concentrates the intelligent and worthwhile portion of the population into blue centers that aren’t evenly distributed across the electoral college?
Which is generally true, but he also won the popular vote. That’s an indication that being awful is less important to most voters than being entertaining. The lesson I see here is Dems need to focus more on engaging rhetoric than silly trivialities like “competence” and “beneficial policy”
Trump’s narrative, despite being just a makeover of the political establishment, is that he’s anti-establishment. Democrats are just nakedly the political establishment with clown makeup pretending to be “progressive”. Trump’s message resonated with his audience, the Democrats’ message didn’t. Both of them are genocidal maniacs that are using nuclear weapons to hold the entire world hostage. Let’s keep our eyes on the target here.
He isn’t anti-establishment though, except that he’s more concerned with self aggrandizement than practical policy. Democrats are establishment that occasionally align with voter needs, Trump is 100% aligned with his own needs, which occasionally defy the establishment when there’s a conflict with his interests.
Again, this comes down to messaging, i.e. rhetoric. Not in content, but in vibes. The Democrats need to pay more attention to vibes, rhetoric, than content. You’re just repeating what I said with different words.
I am not repeating what you said, we have fundamentally different understandings of this system. Trump and Biden are both puppets of an imperial machine. You are trying to play strategist for the Democrats, my interest is in ending the machine. You are under the illusion that Trump emerged out of left field and is operating of his own accord, I am aware that he’s just a slight rebranding of establishment policy made to look like some kind of wildcard.
Your understanding of my point is incorrect. I am under no such illusion. Your interest in “ending the machine” lacks praxis to accomplish that goal. My interest is in Democratic strategy only insofar that it is a stopgap solution to that very same goal. I have no interest in equivocating liberals and fascists. Certainly, the one begets the other, in the same way a tiger cub will become an adult tiger, but I am more confident in our ability to overcome a cub than an adult tiger.
I seek Democratic victory only insofar that I do not see a mature threat to the establishment, and I seek an establishment party which is easier to subvert in the meantime, while meaningful praxis matures. Slow descent into fascism is preferable to accelerated descent into fascism, because I do not believe that accelerationism is in the interest of the people. The risk of enduring fascism is too high.
Now kiss. We’re all on the same side here. Left infighting is what has doomed us all. Yes Trump is a disgusting capitalist bigot piece of shit, but that’s what the American people want. They may be too fucking dumb but they want the system to change and Trump is offering to flip the whole table.
Stop fucking fighting and let’s figure out what to do.
Nothing the Democrats did mattered because the truth didn’t matter. Propaganda, lies, and foreign interference lost the election.
Nothing the Democrats did mattered
So what we saw was what Democrats did when nothing mattered? When there were no boundaries? They supported genocide. They adopted Republican border policy. They ran anti-trans hate in their own ads. They cozied up to Dick Cheney. They showed us what they really are.
It seems this one did matter:
Asked whether there is anything she would have done differently than Biden over the past four years, Harris demurred.
“There is not a thing that comes to mind in terms of — and I’ve been a part of most of the decisions that have had impact,” she said, going on to talk about the administration’s work capping the cost of insulin at $35 for Medicare recipients.
She appeared to backtrack on that answer later in the show.
“You asked me what is the difference between Joe Biden and me — that will be one of the differences. I’m going to have a Republican in my Cabinet,”
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/08/harris-biden-the-view-00182883
I’m pretty sure one major reason Trump won is that he wasn’t in prison. Which is fucking weird since he tried to overthrow the country!
And Democrats lost because no one wanted to vote for them.
DNC is stuffed by imbeciles who sold out. They are not here to win elections, they are here to make sure that democrats never shill anything pro pedon class.
Bruh that’s crazy about that dude’s virginity
I’m so confused, why is that there.
I’m actually less concerned with the OP but more with how George Takei feels the need to double down on it
What?
I said “I’m actually less concerned with the OP but more with how George Takei feels the need to double down on it”
This elevator is a little crowded, I see why you couldn’t hear me
I like you
At least centrists didn’t have to move left.
Won’t be 4 years.
Tankies and their fucking accelerationism.
If they’re too insignificant to listen to, they’re too insignificant to blame.
*ignores voters*
*loses election*
“heh, stupid voters”
Are you implying this doesn’t have an effect on THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD???
No, but at least you guys have your own (hopefully) functioning independent governments to at least try to blunt some of the damage/issues or come together with each other
The best we got are the state governments, but what they can do is… limited
Honestly, I’m afraid of the upcoming election in my country as well. Trump is a symptom of a global phenomenon
global phenomenon
A while back I read an article that posited that we might be in conservatisms last throes before death, that last burst of energy animals sometimes get before whimpering out.
I like to think that’s the real global phenomenon and it’s a matter of getting worse before it gets better
Let’s hope we get to socialism after this barbarism
We still have to put our foot down and maybe double tap it to the face or it could bounce back.
That is a bunch of wishful thinking.
Maybe that’s true, but it looks like neoliberalism beat conservatism to the gallows. Maybe conservatism burns itself out and we can finally get to something better.
More brilliant political analysts who still haven’t managed to figure out the reason both parties near-unanimously support genocide. Have a downvote, on me.
Also, Dems lost, what was it, 10x as many votes as people who voted third party?
And notice where your outrage is actually directed here. Not at the people who actually VOTED for Trump. It’s at the people who refused to compromise their morals AT ALL, unlike you all, who completely compromised your morals in a failing bid to elect Mrs. “Genocide With A Facelift”.
Fuck Republicans, fuck Democrats. That moral superiority you so desperately want to claim, does not exist. You are the problem. You are the driving force behind the empire. You are responsible for their deaths. Take your attempt to blame actual activists and people actually struggling to make the world a better place, and shove it right up your ass.
Fuck the Republicans and fuck the Democrats, sure. But voting is about politics, not making a personal moral statement. That kind of thinking is dumb as fuck and would have been self defeating in every election since George Washington. Politics is always about compromise, and compromise about issues that matter is always a punch in the gut. Effective activism is about winning what you can, taking the hits, and showing up to do it again and again.
Voters who had a choice between two candidates that both support a genocide are not responsible for that genocide. I know a few things about moral reasoning, and no moral system I’m aware of would ever come to such an insane conclusion.
Politics is always about compromise, and compromise about issues that matter is always a punch in the gut.
When was the last time Republicans compromised leftward in any meaningful way?
I hope you’re happy with the Trump administration you helped elect. If you end up in a camp, you can impress everyone with your moral purity
If you end up in a camp, you can impress everyone with your moral purity
No one’s going to trust centrists with their escape plans.
