It can be the least predatory mtx system ever, being in a paid game is still not acceptable and I’ll die on that hill. Never bought anything with a shop or battle pass and won’t start now.
You can literally earn all the credits you need to buy out the store just from playing.
Having the option to use real money is the problem. Nothing is stopping them from adding more and more expensive stuff until you cannot grind it anymore. That’s how we went free cosmetics to 60+ bucks for skins.
Oh, they can add content not included in the original purchase? And they ask me to buy those things they worked on if I want to play with them? Fucking monsters… someone needs to stop them.
You know, drip feeding stuff is no fun. Paying for trivial things is no fun either. We used to get full-blown expansions for the price some companies want for a single skin.
Instead of adding stuff to a shop, games could get actual new content. Instead of buying every asset separately, they could all be thrown in with said new content. Like, yeah, they should get paid for their continued work, but that does not mean the consumer should be milked for every penny.
Sure, and it’ll be unacceptable when that actually happens. Saying “X is unacceptable because think about what they might do in the future” isn’t really an amazing argument if they’re not doing it now.
Nothing is stopping anyone from making something predatory from some angle at some time. You’re just slippery sloping this.
I think there need to be a balance. If it’s a service game, they need money to keep servicing the game. There is a fine line between a reasonable voluntary option to support a game in exchange for some symbolic cosmetic and gross predatory practices.
There’s merit to that, but keep in mind that sometimes the game is bound to a service for the sake of enabling microtransactions to begin with, and if not for that they would have let players to host their own servers. This has happened to most multiplayer games from larger publishers.
I don’t think every topic deserves nuance. Every mtx shop is predatory, every successful service game lives off whales. You’d just draw an arbitrary line at how aggressivly they hunt whales, but they need them all the same. Even if you can get everything with ingame currency drops, if people wouldn’t spend enough, the game wouldn’t get new content.
The only fair solution is to scrap mtx entirely and make all service games subscription based. But people aren’t ready for that, this conversation often comes down to “as long as they don’t exploit me, I’ll take my free games”.
I would not call Deep Rock Galactic predatory… They release one! cosmetic pack for each season, and that’s it? There is no whales to catch, because in that case it’s very limited how much you can even spend. Like 10 euro every 4-5 months and that’s it. Is that predatory to you?
I honestly can’t answer you, I don’t know anything about the game besides seeing it everywhere for years. Stuff like: How in your face is advertising? Do season even add anything besides these packs? Are they missable? The only thing I can say for sure: I dislike how they present multiple bundles with varying amounts of DLC on their steam page. Without prior knowledge I’d have to go through everything and check if I’d be missing out on some actual DLC content and I’d assume there are people buying an actually reasonably priced game for over a 100 bucks because they want all DLC assuming it’s real content. Sure, that’s on them not checking, but also kinda on the developer naming it stuff like “Deluxe” or “Master” Edition instead of “All Cosmetics Edition” or something among those lines.
Regardless, even if it is an genuine exception, they add massive content updates and don’t push these packs at all. Do they even make a profit then? Massively successful games like DRG, Terraria or Stardew Valley can do whatever they want - they have funded themselves more or less for life already and probably would still sell anyways. Normal service games need to turn a profit with their updates which still means either having a subscription or predatory mtx.
It’s OK for people to spend as much money as they want supporting a game. If you enjoy the work that a developer does for a live service game, it makes sense to fund their business.
I paid for a couple of the cosmetic packs in DRG for example. They genuinely made a great game, and they released additional content as well. I like that I’m not pressured into a subscription, and I can choose how much extra money I want to throw their way.
Destiny 2 is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. The DLC is very expensive, each pack corresponding to the cost of a full game, and there are several of these packs at least. That being said, some people really like Destiny 2. Who am I to say that their spending is wrong? It’s their hobby, and they’re funding it by supporting the company that makes the content for them.
If it were a level playing field I’d be inclined to agree with you, but it isn’t. These companies are hiring specialists in the psychology of creating a sense of need where there is no need. It doesn’t work on everyone for everything but there are people who are susceptible to these techniques and they’re the people funding everything. The issue isn’t people spending their money on what they want, it’s them being put in the situation where they feel compelled to purchase things and encouraged to do so by companies who know full well that these people can’t handle it and will cough up the dough no matter what comes their way.
It’s OK for people to spend as much money as they want supporting [gambling]. If you enjoy the work that a developer does for a [gambling service], it makes sense to fund their business.
Would you feel the same about your paragraph with these changes? Destiny 2 used to have full blown loot boxes after all.
I think it is important to still ralley against predatory mtx mechanics even if they don’t work for you. Other people don’t necessarily have full control over their own spending habits and by allowing these systems we openly allow developers to exploit these people. Luckily we started having laws against gambling mechanics (although Gacha is still a thing), but there are still many other psychological tricks at play for almost all of these shops.
Unpopular opinion but I think it’s acceptable as long as its optional especially as multiplayer game where they are hosting servers. Those aren’t cheap and I don’t have the game so I wouldn’t know but if they do release more multiplayer content for free, I think it’s further justification because that’s better than paid content packs. As an example, CoD on PC had a recurring issue of DLC content being useless since too little people would buy them. Titanfall saw this issue as well and it was even worse due to the smaller player base. So with Titanfall 2 they just made it free and added cosmetics microtransactions that were actually reasonably priced.
Maybe this is not the solution for everything but as long as it has no bearing on gameplay what’s the harm? If you’re not one to spend on microtransactions then you only get the benefits. I don’t think a more benign implementation should be criticised just because we fear the potential of it potentially becoming worse.
To each their own, but I think this is a bit extremist. Life isn’t black and white. Free games with mtx can be good or bad, paid games without can be good or bad.
Just not buying solely because it has a shop/battle pass means you miss out on a lot of games where it has zero meaning and you’re not allowing any nuanced discussion to happen on the issue.
There are so many games available without microtransactions that I can happily never play one and not feel I’m missing out. We’re having the nuanced discussion now!
I agree if those things leverage fomo to get people to pay. In helldivers you can earn that currency just playing the game so if you have less time to play you have the option of purchasing the currency and their versions of battle passes are always available to buy and work on at your leisure.
It started with “It’s just a silly horse armor DLC, just don’t buy it!”, continued with “It’s just cosmetics bro, just don’t get them!”, then we got “The shop is fine though, you can get the currency ingame!” and got to “The timed battle pass is fine, you also get free stuff!”. You can draw your own line for mtx, but slowly we’re both approaching and crossing it if you accept anything before that.
The way I see things, “the least pressured to buy stuff” reads like “the least aggressive cancer”. Sure, it could be worse, but like, you’ve still got cancer. There’s still the ideal option of being healthy instead.
I’m actually not making any of those arguments and disagree with all of them myself. My issue with mtx is generally that they prey on people with psychological tactics that are proven to work on a lot of (generally vulnerable and younger) people. Helldivers does none of that, it’s not “least pressured to buy stuff”, you’re not pressured at all.
And I know I’m being a little sensitive here but it really sucks to lose someone from cancer and see someone comparing it to a shop in a video game of all things.
You know what, that’s fair. I’m sorry for the comparison and will try to not use it again.
As for the least pressured thing, that’s just from the title of the original article.
I appreciate the consideration and at the end of the day I really agree with you and it sucks to see the state of the industry as a whole right now and really hope we can get back to being respected as consumers some day.
You only earn so much, though. Once you finish with requisitions it’s buy only
No, you can find super credits in every single battle. Should be leaving any mission with a minimum of 20 super credits
You can actually find the premium currency as a loot item in some mission types
Nope, you can find them in missions as well, just in smaller amounts
I still can’t look past the rootkit anticheat for a goddamn co-op game.
Is it really that bad?
nProtect GameGuard (sometimes called GG) is an anti-cheating rootkit developed by INCA Internet.
I wonder if shit like that will eventually lead to more people using wine in windows, in order to sandbox rootkits. Helldivers 2 works fine with proton on Linux, at least.
The absurdity of having a reason to run wine on windows through WSL is amusing.
God, it’s so convoluted I’ll become a monk first.
If Linux gaming continues to increase in popularity, I imagine the anti-cheat will start to crawl its way out of the WINE environment and into the native system. But I actually have no clue about how these AC work or is handled by WINE.
Most likely result of this setup becoming popular is the anti-cheat working harder to detect being sandboxed in this manner.
Since it’s the same thing a cheater would do to defeat the anti-cheat.
Maybe people will transition slowly over to linux
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I still can’t look past the rootkit anticheat for a goddamn co-op game.
This is probably pissing into the wind, but that isn’t what “rootkit” means in this context.
Unfortunately you can’t get through to these people. They refuse to accept that rootkit as a security concept isn’t just an admin level process that can be hijacked, but a specifically malicious bundle of programs that embeds itself in your firmware and runs in secret.
The anticheat isn’t running secretly, as the game informs you of its use and requirement. It also doesn’t access your MoBo firmware or UEFI, merely the kernel of the OS.
No one with even the bare minimum Sec+ cert would call it a rootkit, and only those with no actual knowledge take that claim seriously.
No one with even the bare minimum Sec+ cert would call it a rootkit
That’s what it’s page on wikipedia says.
nProtect GameGuard (sometimes called GG) is an anti-cheating rootkit developed by INCA Internet.
Oh damn wikipedia, that’s never been edited by someone with an agenda before. Go look up the dictionary/CompTIA definition of a rootkit, not what some FOSS bro edited the wiki page to be.
Is this a sponsored post by a bought-and-paid-for shill, or is the writer just so worn down by microtransactions over the years that they’re Stockholm-Syndromed into thinking this is somehow OK?
I mean Skull & Bones, the $70 always-online piratey piece of shit from Ubisoft, has an ad in the game for the Premium Edition - which, I shit you not, the first line of the description says “premium edition gives you access to the Full Game.”
Like, fuck any form of modern gaming whatsoever after this point. I bought the Arkham games cause they’re on a huge sale on steam (literally $10 for the whole trilogy, and Origins is currently $5) and have been having a fucking blast replaying those amazing games.
we are living in an age where paying more money to a game for full content after buying it is “refreshing”
I think this is just what happens when an art gets big and becomes an industry. Film buffs don’t get (too) wound up at every new formulaic action movie, soulless remake, or low-brow comedy (and all the money-grabbing tie-ins that come with them); maybe we should all just chill out and stop worrying about the mass-market blockbusters when there’s still a wealth of great stuff to play.
I think this is just what happens when an art gets big and becomes an industry.
Video games have been an “industry” for decades though.
Yeah but it’s become way more mainstream with the rise of mobile gaming (because suddenly half the population of the world is a potential customer)
Maybe you are right but it is a bit like when search engines are flooded with crap: super annoying. I would any day prefer fewer options of mid to high quality stuff to whatever this is.
This is the first time I’ve even heard of this game. Just ignore the big paid-for marketing announcements and find real people’s recommendations.
Yeah, I think this is a great take. It’s pretty easy to avoid all the mercenary practices that tend to plague most “AAA” titles these days— mostly by not buying the games at launch; eventually they all come around as giveaways, or at least at a deep discount. And as you say, there are a plethora of small developers putting out amazing games all the time. I’ve been getting a ton of mileage the last couple of months out of Vagrus and Dredge.
Preaching to the choir mate, I run freegames@feddit.uk, I acquire recent-but-not-brand-new AA-but-not-AAA games faster than I can play them! It’s still a great experience to be a patient gamer.
Subbed, thanks! Looks like a good resource.
Diablo 4, a full priced game, has microtransactions that are as expensive as the game itself, and skins that cost as much as 30 USD, when a game doesn’t fuck the people as hard it draws attention.
That’s such victim mentality. That’s like saying you like Guard A over Guard B because Guard A doesn’t beat you as severely.
Yeah that’s unfortunately how the industry has been headed for games from major developers and publishers.
Might be both 😅
nope. game is good, but i’m not interested in the ingame store.
You can find supercredits on missions. I’ve unlocked the premium battlepass and bought some armor without spending a dime of real money.
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Your reply isn’t showing up for me for some reason. Only in my inbox. Not trying to defend the game, but I probably have about 10 hours of in-game play time (excluding matchmaking and loading etc) and I’ve already unlocked the premium pass without even trying. There’s mission types you can do to make that faster, but it was very organic for me. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah I know, still not interested in any battlepasses, never was. I usually quit as soon as any game start their “Season of the…” crap and return to my evergreen Guild Wars 2.
I also got me a decent looking outfit already and the stats fit my playstyle, so I’m pretty much playing the game for fun now with no interest in any additional unlocks besides stratagems and ship upgrades.
Lol the downvotes…
Ah I get you. Just so you know, the battlepasses are more like level unlocks than typical battlepasses, but you probably know that. Also, old battlepasses that you didn’t finish or even start will stay in the game permanently, so don’t feel like there’s a rush to finish them.
You are not using war bonds? I’m very confused. This is how you unlock more gear and you don’t have to pay for anything.
Also all of their war bond passes stay with you forever, you don’t have to finish them before season is over or whatever.
Im using warbonds, just not the premium stuff since nothing there I desire and I don’t search the map for that currency.
Ah ok. I was worried that you were locking yourself out of the progression system. That makes sense.
Premium currency is freely available on missions and it’s not hard to accrue enough to make frequent buys in the money store without spending a cent. The problem becomes the amount of time I spend in game, which doesn’t feel like a problem.
No. This is not a “creative” way to nudge us towards the store. Definitely not. It’s just the type of monetization every gamer has been secretly yearning for, right?
Why is there content in the game I paid for that I can’t access without paying even more?
If you are genuinely asking, I can play Devil’s advocate:
Because then they can set the price at 40 USD, making it more affordable, and possibly make back the difference with some (mostly) cosmetic premium content.
This is not so easy to argue for games that are sold at 70 USD, and premium content is much more tied to gameplay, and all the FOMO dark patterns are turned to max.
Helldivers barely have enough content to justify 40 bucks. It makes up for it in presentation though
Why I think people are praising the helldivers2 monetization is that isn’t the case. The “premium currency” is earnable in game and at a reasonable. I haven’t bought any but still have the battlepass and a few of the premium armors.
You get it as part of the battlepass, and the gameplay loop guides you to the currency. You’ll be looking for ammo or in game currency, and there also happens to be premium currency sometimes. The battlepass not being timed and on a work at your own pace is great too.
It feels fair to me? Like the developer can still make a buck but not ruin the experience. I.e. the monetization lets people pay to instantly gratify if they want vs punish you for not spending.
That fact that you have the option is the problem
I feel this way too. You find premium currency laying around all over the place. You can buy everything in the store and the premium warbond for free if explore around as you play, just like any of the other in-game currencies.
Reads like they have an issue
When Helldivers 2 closes down you can’t play it anymore, it’s still part of the problem and not the solution, let people host servers or do it p2p.
Arrowhead still supporting HD1 so I don’t see that being an issue for at least 8-10 years.
HD1 is playable offline. No reason the second game shouldn’t be either
The reason is the cash shop of course. I know, it’s cheap and fair compared to every other live services, but it still limits your play to be online only.
We can only hope the game does an Avengers when it closes down and patches offline play, but we can’t trust these companies.
Ques are over. Come in the water is warm and full of bug juice.
Whats are over?
The “queue to connect to the server” is how I read their message.
Yup exactly, I spelled it wrong tho 😐
This works so well lol
¿Que?
That’s good to hear! I’ve held off checking it out until the queue got better.
Wish I could play
Instantly refunded when I entered a queue.
Good, less queue for the rest of us 😎
btw: there are no more queues
Picked the game up yesterday. No queues, but the matchmaker is still having trouble filling pubgs. Also running into massive CPU utilization straight at start of game, and with Nvidia recommended graphic settings im getting dips to 25fps in some missions. Hopefully the technical patch is not too far away.
What card are you running, performance turns out to be pretty decent. I run this on a Radeon 6950 and on 1440p with everything on high and fsr on quality, I get 120+ fps on average. Or is this game more in favor of amd cards ?
To be fair if you have a 6950 XT that’s not much you can throw at it where it doesn’t run well.
Good choice. Only game where a queue can be understood is in something like FXIV where everyone is in one server and not instanced
Weak willed
If its the latest game you’ve played that doesnt you should look at Beyond All Reason. Its free and open source. No season passes or mtx of any kind.
I just looked and I may give it a try. Looks good. It’s worth mentioning it’s in Alpha, some people don’t enjoy trying to play games that early on and it explains why it’s free.
Beyond All Reason is a Spring Engine game which is an open source rts engine that has been in development for probably a decade and a half at this point.
I’ve already given up on online games. I don’t enjoy them like i use too a few years back and endlessly grinding doesn’t come close to the satisfaction of actually finishing a game. My friend streamed some of this to convince me to get it, the gameplay looked bland and he clipped through the map and had to start the mission again. I think ill stick to finishing my backlog of single player games.
I didnt know single player games are not made anymore.
