Well, I get what you’re saying, but I’m European and while there are plenty of right-wingers here, I haven’t met any actual obvious Trumpers so far, though I’m sure plenty of them do like Trump.

Was just kinda wondering ‘out loud’ if there is an actual line somewhere and what it would be. It seems to me it’s much easier for democrats to turn against their politicians than it is for republicans.

I think it should definitely be pointed out, constantly, how much of a hypocrite and liar Trump is, just to get it (and keep it) on the record. Ignoring it would only normalize it more. And maybe some fence sitters didn’t know about it and now they do. Which is a good thing.

At the same time, however, I also believe it’s absolutely pointless, if your goal is to convince any of his followers. They already know all of this and they don’t care. They don’t love him despite the lies and hypocrisy. They love him because of it. And even if they don’t like it per se, they still won’t turn against him, because they’re accepting way worse and nothing has been a deal breaker so far.

Edit: I have often wondered what Trump would have to do for his followers to abandon him. Is there anything they wouldn’t accept?

False claim? How about we call them lies? Trump is a liar. He lies.

A false claim implies it could be made with good intentions, simply out of ignorance. No. Trump lies. He lies maliciously.

How many lie-filled years need to pass before media call it what it is?

I actually think those kinds of mistakes are made more often by native speakers, because they learn it from other people as they’re growing up (including all the mistakes), while non-native speakers learn it correctly (from books and teachers). Same goes for the then/than or they’re/their/there, etc. When you learn it spoken first, and incorrectly, it’s harder to correct those mistakes than to learn it correctly from the start.

In Dutch, for example, we have loads of people who will say “groter als” (bigger than), which is dead wrong - it should be “groter dan.” This als/dan-mistake is something typical of natives, and I’ve never heard a non-native make this mistake. Same goes for zij/hun. Usually kids just learn incorrectly from their parents. My own parents make those mistakes as well and it took more than a year of my elementary school teacher correcting me every. single. time I made the mistakes, for me to correct them.

Vlooienmarkt in Dutch, also literally flea market.

Edit: Nvm, I’m blind, I see you already mentioned it.

No, it was actually correct. A historic move.

Actual.

Definitely those Atreides genes.

It’s like, totally unreadable, like, my mind just, sort of, shuts down, like it really, sort of, hurts, you know?

Like, AAAAAHHHH. Sort of.

I’m a big fat liar

There’s your lie?

This is what you take away from my comment? Nobody was attacking anyone until you started berating OP for having thoughts. Do you honestly think I’m walking around calling fat people names all the time? Or that OP does that? Of course not. What we’re thinking inside our own heads does not constitute an attack.

It’s hilarious that you think you’re on some moral high ground, implying that you never have any negative thoughts about anyone. Go stand on a lego, please.

Wtf are you talking about? Nowhere does OP say he’s angry or even really bothered by it at all. He just thinks “oh ewww, that looks disgusting” and then goes about his day. What’s more disturbing is that so many people apparently seem to think that being this fat is actually something we should just accept or even celebrate.

I feel like society should have a role in making sure people don’t ever get this fat. And not because it’s “eww” or ugly, but because it’s fucking unhealthy. Whenever I see a person like this, I feel pity. You don’t get this fat in a few months. This means years and years of bad habits, lack of access to healthy foods, maybe a terrible childhood with parents who didn’t give a shit, no assistance from the people around you who just stand by and watch it happen (or even enable it), very likely a highly fucked up self image and other issues. This is simply not healthy. It’s terrible.

And this weird thing is happening where people can’t even say these things anymore without being attacked by people like you. I think you actually believe that OP’s opinion is the outlandish one. And that just makes me sad.

You remind me of that MacKinnon cartoon, from years ago. Lemme see if I can find it. Ah here:

https://twitter.com/CH_Cartoon/status/1045992028839059457

Sadly again/still relevant, hm?

Well, there’s a shocker. But not to worry! He’ll surely not get away with the next crime he commits.

Exactly right! I think we’re actually agreed on this.

I just meant that OP used to say they ought to do it, which was his ‘emotional’ response to it, which is easier when it’s in abstract. But in reality he doesn’t like it at all when his government actually does it.

I’d never heard about that reddit story, but I think it’s very apt, lol.

It’s the exact same point. You disingenuously calling it “government coercion” doesn’t change anything.

But thank you for pointing out you don’t actually care. Means I don’t have to waste more time on this. I wish you a pleasant day.

This is because we can be of two minds about these things. You can have a personal response to heinous acts, but still think the government ought to be better.

If some guy murders the murderer of their kid, I can absolutely 100% understand why, and I could even admit that I might do the same in their position. But I still think that as a society we should not lower ourselves to this standard and I will always be against the death penalty (especially because the system will never be perfect and I will never think it’s worth killing even one innocent person by accident).

It’s why vigilante justice is so easily understood, but it’s still something we, as a society, shouldn’t accept.

Emotional reactions can cloud our minds to these things. But I absolutely agree with you. This is horrendous and barbarous. I can still somewhat understand the “he deserves it for what he did”-response, but I’m absolutely against this on a deeper level.

No, it’s also choosing not to let them into your building.

Nobody is coercing you to do anything when your employer doesn’t want people spreading disease in their company. Nobody is coercing anyone if e.g. hospitals refuse to hire someone who hasn’t had certain vaccinations. It has nothing to do with coercion. It has to do with the fact that actions and choices have consequences. You don’t get to willingly disregard (the safety of) everyone else and expect to be welcome everywhere.

If I choose not to shower, and stink to high heaven, some employers won’t hire me. If I choose not to wear shoes, or walk around in my underwear, I will be denied access to many places. Does this mean I am being coerced to shower and wear clothes?

Actions have consequences. It’s just that simple. You can always choose to not do x, but when it’s a requirement for y, you won’t get to do y unless you do x. And speaking of rights, what about everyone else’s rights to not have to sit/work/eat/wait next to Typhoid Mary? Or is it really your opinion that whatever someone does, their right to do whatever is more important than the rest of society? Do you think businesses should be forced to allow anyone inside no matter what? Employers are not allowed to set requirements for their employees?

Don’t worry, I’m tired of these discussions too. I’ve had them too many times over the past years. We obviously use different definitions of the word ‘optional’ and that’s fine. Let’s just leave it at that.