Trump in 2016:
She shouldn’t be allowed to run.
If she were to win this election, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis.
In that situation we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.
It would grind the government to a halt.
Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/donald-trump-trial-guilty-hillary-clinton-b2556563.html
Trump criticizes Trump yet again.
Republicans always criticize themselves heavily. Just don’t do anything about it though.
Republicans mostly do the criticizing through projection.
lol
Part of being a republican is being a hypocrite.
That brings back memories! Looks like that sub shut down in Nov. 2022.
Guess the novelty kinda wore off after the hundred-millionth time.
This won’t do anything. His base doesn’t care. They treat this like a sports team. He’s still “their” guy. The Cleveland Browns have a rapist as their quarterback. Despite everyone in Cleveland not being a fan of his extraciricular activities, I have seen no boycotts. I’ve seen no reduction in Browns gear here in Cleveland. I’ve seen no reason to believe that we’ve shown our front office that we won’t stand for a rapist on the team.
It’s the same with trump/republicans. They’ve had several, countless even, oppertunities to exit the highway down the road that is trump. The fact that he emerged in 2016 as the republican nominee at all still feels like it was decided by a round of plinko.
They should have looked at him from before 2016 and said no. They could have exited anytime between 2017-2021. They could have exited over J6. They could have exited in the aftermath of J6.
They stayed on the highway that whole time. They aren’t getting off. They’re going to ride that highway until they drive off a cliff at the end.
And in that sense, this article/post/video is nothing but a feel good moment for everyone else that ultimately doesn’t do, or change ANYTHING. Remember, he JUST claimed he never said “lock her up”. His base is unphased.
I have no credibility or relevant qualifications. I’m just some random moron on the internet, but here’s my opinion:
His base has been manipulated. They have a sunken cost. Each time something new and horrible comes out about Donald Trump, they have to either be OK with it or come to terms with the idea that they may have been wrong about him this whole time. They’ll react emotionally to this dilemma as if being wrong in this case would constitute a personal attack on their character.
With every new lie he tells or every new horrible thing he does, his supporters are forced to embrace it. And it just compounds. If they question him now, that would mean they’d have to question the hundreds of other things about him they’ve accepted.
So if he says “the sky is green” then they have to accept it as fact. Because if they question it, then they have to question if he told the truth about getting a fair trial, and then they have to question if he actually tried to cover up sleeping with a porn star, then they have to question if he slept with a porn star, etc etc all the way back for at least a decade. It’s much easier just to accept the latest small lie than question everything you’ve believed for so long.
No, if he says “The sky is green,” they don’t believe him. They turn to watch your face as you meltdown over it. Nobody cares if he slept with a porn star and fudged some paperwork, they just care that it makes you spin out into this kind of nonsense.
God damn. I HOPE you’re wrong. As that would imply that roughly 48% of america is voting because of this refusal to admit to themselves that they were wrong.
Hell, I KNOW I’m wrong a lot. There’s no reason to say “oh, maybe I shouldn’t have done that.” And then fix your mistakes. There’s even times I’m right 100% through an event, and then contexts change, and you have to admit the way you did it was actually wrong for reasons that hadn’t happened yet in that moment.
We used to LOVE trump in 2004. Long before he was a politician. We loved him because he was easy to laugh at, and immitate in a mocking manner. But, now I know that watching clips of him on tv, only gave him ratings, kept him with a weekly paycheck for doing nothing. I now know if he went bankrupt in the 2000s, he wouldn’t have had the standing or money to run a campaign in 2016.
So, oops. I was wrong for that. Difference is, we loved him like a clown. These people today love him like a savior. Which I do not understand.
These people today love him like a savior. Which I do not understand.
It’s very simple. For the last 30 years, liberals have become more and more self-righteous, arrogant, and idiotic in the policies they pursue. You’ve all lost any ability to argue and defend your positions, relying on cheap tactics like name-calling to mock, deride and dismiss the right without actually defending your increasingly insane positions. You’re all so far up your asses, so bigoted and condescending, that it has become impossible to have any sort of political dialogue.
They hate you, they can’t reason with you, they can’t even get you talk to them without calling them fascists and bigots, all while you ignore the harm your own policies are causing. Donald Trump is your punishment. The people don’t love him a savior, they love him because he’s a giant middle finger in your face, and it makes you throw a temper tantrum.
And which policies might those be? The policies that stop ICE from seperating families at the border? Trying to end the acts of throwing them in large metal boxes with no water, some dying, in 110 degree heat?
Or are you thinking of other policies?
The policies that stop ICE from seperating families at the border? Trying to end the acts of throwing them in large metal boxes with no water, some dying, in 110 degree heat?
Are those Democrat policies? Is that what you mean to suggest?
Or are you thinking of other policies?
Yes, I was thinking about Democrat policies. And while it’s true that separating families at the border is a policy that began under Obama, I think it’s largely thought of as a Trump policy.
I meant policies like using mass immigration as a stop-gap measure to deal with the negative population growth caused by liberal anti-family values and embracing globalism to the detriment of American workers (which the right is also guilty of, but Trump is as much a thumb in the eye of the Republican establishment as he is the Democratic establishment).
You’ve all lost any ability to argue and defend your positions, relying on cheap tactics like name-calling to mock, deride and dismiss the right without actually defending your increasingly insane positions.
I honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling, or just really fucking oblivious.
No, his base hasn’t been manipulated. They like Trump for one reason and one reason only: He makes you gnash your teeth. Trump is their revenge on you for being such self-righteous arrogant dicks and cheating in the political process. The only way Trump could lose luster in their eyes is if you guys all stopped freaking out about Trump, which won’t happen.
Do you care to elaborate on how Trump is revenge? I am honestly interested in your opinion.
I think these “self-righteous arrogant dick” people are a very small minority of Democrat voters, just as any unflattering stereotype of Republican voters is only an accurate representation of the most unpleasant members of that group.
I think part of the appeal of Donald Trump seems to have something to do with the fact that he is (or at least has been, or projects the appearance of being) rich and powerful, and then is just blatantly honest about the level of corruption and hypocrisy that the rich and powerful get away with. I think people like that honesty. Nobody wants to live in a rigged system.
However, (and I think this is the part where you’ll get frustrated with me) he seems to be highly and openly corrupt. I think he wants to make corruption and abuse of power seem normal so that when he does it, he can act like it isn’t a big deal.
It’s a big deal.
Do you care to elaborate on how Trump is revenge?
Starting in the 1960s, this country entered into a “culture war” that is, in many ways, similar to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. On one side, you have the postmodern liberal/left, which is motivated primarily by critical theory originating in post-Marxist philosophical movements. On the other side, you have modernist and traditonalist right (i.e. libertarians/neocons and the Christian right (I would be part the later group)). The right has been losing the culture war badly since the 1980s and the left has near total cultural dominance now, and has begun the process of destroying the modernist/traditionalist right through the school systems and its control of media. This has made the right feel utterly powerless and humiliated by the left, and has left them questioning whether the Republicans were ever actually representing them or were just stooges for the postmodern left the whole time.
Donald Trump is the epitome of everything the postmodern left hates. He’s crude, belligerent, brashly honest about things you’re not supposed to be honest about, but essentially a congenital liar in all other regards. He’s sexist, he’s borderline racist, he’s anti-intellectual, and he’s a rich, powerful straight white man who makes absolutely no apologies for it and is absolutely swimming in unearned privilege.
That’s why the right supports him. The right isn’t even allowed to question the left’s agenda, it’s dogma. They’re not allowed to participate in politics and culture anymore, they’re only recognized as the “bad guys,” the “enemy.” They feel like the only thing they can do is put a thumb in the left’s eye and make them hurt. So that’s why they are in love with Trump, and not a more sensible candidate like DeSantis. Because Donald Trump’s mere existence makes the left gnash their teeth.
I think people like that honesty. Nobody wants to live in a rigged system.
That’s certainly part of it. They do think everyone is as corrupt as Trump, but only Trump is willing to admit it.
However, (and I think this is the part where you’ll get frustrated with me) he seems to be highly and openly corrupt. I think he wants to make corruption and abuse of power seem normal so that when he does it, he can act like it isn’t a big deal.
I totally agree. The man is beyond corrupt. I genuinely believe your average family dog has a better understanding of morality than Donald Trump, who may possibly be the most venal, corrupt person to ever hold the office of President. It’s either him or Jackson. As I believe I said earlier, I’m not a Trump supporter. I’m a socially conservative Catholic who is moderate to liberal on economic issues, so naturally I’m very much opposed to the Democrats, but Trump doesn’t really hold any appeal to me (except insomuch as his election might bring Project 2025 to fruition). I’m also Gen X, so I’ve known who Trump was for 30+ years and absolutely cannot take him seriously. But I totally get why the conservative base – which is mostly made up of unideological reactionaries – has embraced him.
You can say what you want about Trump. But how dare you bring plinko into this.
You mean to tell me people with dog shit moral compasses and who are obsessed with regression/stale movement for all but the elite are hipocrits??
Crazy.
You could grab his orange head and shove it straight into that video and he’d just double-down on his insistence that he did nothing wrong, the trial was all politically motivated and therefore invalid, and that the conviction is fake. It’s like trying to argue with a Flat Earther or Moon Landing Denier, or religious nutjobs, real truth and real facts are meaningless.
FFS drop Trump in an oubliette and be done with it.
“see she actually did it tho! Me I’m not actually guilty the jury was rigged against me!”
We’ve always been at war with Eureast AsiaTrump never said that.Moon Landing Denier
In fairness to the Moon Landing Deniers, The Shinning is even more fun to watch when you’re convinced its a secret Stanley Kubrick confession.
“gotta write a bad ending… Bad ending hmmm. FROZE TO DEATH ok this is gold”
… Not sure that last part is a historical reference or specifically a Crusader Kings reference.
Or Labyrinth reference
It’s a Magic the Gathering reference, obviously. [[Oubliette]]
Card fetcher please?
“F-F-FAKE NeWs”
– MAGA
When I see comments talking about how pointless it is to continue pointing out his hypocritical actions I immediately write that person off as a bot.
If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.
I think it should definitely be pointed out, constantly, how much of a hypocrite and liar Trump is, just to get it (and keep it) on the record. Ignoring it would only normalize it more. And maybe some fence sitters didn’t know about it and now they do. Which is a good thing.
At the same time, however, I also believe it’s absolutely pointless, if your goal is to convince any of his followers. They already know all of this and they don’t care. They don’t love him despite the lies and hypocrisy. They love him because of it. And even if they don’t like it per se, they still won’t turn against him, because they’re accepting way worse and nothing has been a deal breaker so far.
Edit: I have often wondered what Trump would have to do for his followers to abandon him. Is there anything they wouldn’t accept?
Is there anything they wouldn’t accept
Find them and ask them.
Discussing on forums like these is all find and good, but in the end it’s lots of Preaching To The Choir. What people need to do is find a Red Hatter and ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
Outreach will win the day.
Well, I get what you’re saying, but I’m European and while there are plenty of right-wingers here, I haven’t met any actual obvious Trumpers so far, though I’m sure plenty of them do like Trump.
Was just kinda wondering ‘out loud’ if there is an actual line somewhere and what it would be. It seems to me it’s much easier for democrats to turn against their politicians than it is for republicans.
Find them and ask them.
You have apparently had much more productive conversations with trumpers than I ever have.
ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.
And, it’s not hard to predict their answers.
- Treat trans people like monsters and pedophiles, and legislate as such.
- Knock gays back to the 80s or earlier via legislation
- The rest of the queer community needs to STFU and pretend they don’t exist.
- Cancel all DEI programs and make them illegal
- Make Pride month celebrations illegal at all businesses or public areas
- Follow the DeSantis model of history teaching, by trying to claim slavery was a benefit to slaves, or that Harriet Tubman was just having a bad day and sat at the wrong end of the bus, etc
- Support police without question - as long as it’s the blacks, gays, antifa, and left-leaning protesters they are beating up on
- Eliminate birth control and abortions nationally
- Put back all those civil war memorials because muh heritage
- Restrict college and high school curricula to Republican-approved materials on a national level
- Cease all climate-change measures or spending
- Acknowledge there is no solution to gun violence that involves restricting the activities of gun owners.
That’s pretty close to the list for anyone who is flying a Trump flag. And if it’s not on their list, it’s still not a dealkiller.
Outreach will win the day.
You’d need to put me in kevlar and pay me a lot to go knocking on maga doors all day.
The mental exercise is… what would Biden have to do to get you to vote for the Republican Party? Or even to get you to just not vote at all? I know it’s a false equivalency, but it gives you some sense of the lines we all draw in the sand, and the “activation energy” that it takes to change our minds.
If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.
What I’m struggling with is to find evidence from past events which would lead you to believe his voters are going to be changed by showing them any of this. You’ve got the folks who do not care because they are Trump cultists, then you have the folks who would vote for Satan himself if he had R next to his name.
Everyone else is already not going to vote for him.
So what change do we think showing this to his supporters is going to effect?
Now now. He said the felony indictment would create a constitutional crisis. The trial would grind government to a halt. His trial’s over, he’s already been convicted. Completely different situation.
Sarcasm aside, I don’t expect this to matter much. Pointing out the hypocrisy never seems to do anything. Maybe hopefully it’ll peel off some hesitant voters on the margins, but will it cause the party to change course in any substantial way? I doubt it.
What about the other 51 open indictments?
Exactly. I was going to reply to the original commenter saying, like, you know he’s still got 3 other trials actively in progress right? (Well, 1 of those is indefinitely halted, but still).
Ah crap, you’re right. I’ve been so focused on the one case that reached a conclusion that I tend to forget all the other cases still pending.
Omg who cares. He lies and says literally opposite things from previous things every single day. It makes no difference. He’s a shit human and no one is going to see this one example and think. “hmm maybe has had him pegged wrong…” just vote in nov please.
Nah, I’m voting next week to ensure the Dutch left keeps a voice in the EU parliament.
I can understand the fatigue, but the alternative is silence and resignation. Someone has to be the sane voice that points out these things. Someone has to display consistent morals, or else society rots completely. You might not see a result immediately, but it’s not in vain.
“Nononono, not like that” - republiKKKlowns
Someone should grab him by his felonies.
Jesus fuck, stop playing this “gotcha!” game. This is dumb. He doesn’t give a shit about consistency. He’ll straight up lie about something he said yesterday. Who are you convincing with this?
me. i’m convinced. i was gonna vote for trump first, but this has persuaded me to vote for biden
s
First of all, there are people who think it is funny, like me.
Additionally, sometimes people just aren’t aware of stuff and people draw different lines. Apparently trump support has decreased since the verdict of his 34 felonies. That wasn’t my line for sure; the racism and history of racism was; but apparently some people didn’t care about the racism, transphobia, sexism, the sexualizing of his daughter, the cheating on his wife, the lies, … But about the felonies. So instead of telling people to not speak out about it, don’t engage.
The Right Wingers play “Gotcha!”, playing it right back does nothing.
I think this a good sanity check for us all to remember the kind of person Trump is and what’s at stake. But we can’t stop with clever gotchas, we need to defeat the fascist ideas that the MAGA movement runs on. Trump will be gone one day, but fascist movements will persist until we defeat their ideas. Fascism is a self-destructive ideology that in the long term benefits no one. Everyone needs to know that.
I don’t disagree but the perceived strong man leader is one of the most important pillars of a fascist movement, who the followers love not for his position but mainly for his cunning ability to charm them. There’s no other person but Trump in sight who would take over his place in the movements’ hearts. Only Elon Musk maybe but he can’t be president. So getting at Trump is absolutely the priority, buying us time until Joe Rogan develops political ambitions.
The problem with fashist self-destruction is that they usually take the country over and then with them on their way to destruction.
The US can learn from German history or find out themselves how a Nazi government turns out.
Hey everyone, we’ve finally done it, we’ve found the one quote that will make trumpets see reason!
As a right-winger who doesn’t support Trump, nothing liberals can do will make the Trumpets see “reason.” They aren’t voting for Trump because of “reasons.” They’re voting for him because he causes liberals to have a meltdown and drives y’all crazy, and they absolutely fucking hate you and want to watch you stress out and get aggravated. The only way the lib left could make the reactionary right reject Trump is by reacting to him like sane people, which y’all are incapable of.
The only way the lib left could make the reactionary right reject Trump is by reacting to him like sane people, which y’all are incapable of
So what’s the sane way to react to him directly contradicting himself and lying about things we have video evidence of?
Clearly, it’s too call everyone who is voting for him a fascist, declare that democracy has fallen, and throw a temper tantrum in the middle of the street. Honestly, there’s probably nothing that can be done at this point. After 8 years of histrionics over Trump – four of which he wasn’t even in office – it would be almost impossible to change the right’s perception of the left as arrogant, elitist, hypocritical crybullies.
“Laws matter and words mean things”
“Oh here we go again with the arrogant elitist hypocrites!”
Shut the fuck up
What a powerful argument. Not at all the reaction of an arrogant, elitist, hypocritical crybully.
Clearly, it’s too call everyone who is voting for him a fascist, declare that democracy has fallen, and throw a temper tantrum in the middle of the street
So the things MAGA have been doing for the past 8 years?
Do you really think that’s a fair assessment of what “MAGA” have been doing for the past 8 years? Maybe the last 4 years, but they were hardly saying such things when their boy was in office.
Actually, I don’t care. What I really want to know is what your point is? “They do it, so it’s okay if we do it?” They are, for the most part, a bunch of reactionaries. Trump’s base is largely uneducated, lower-middle-class white Christians who don’t understand why liberals are radically deconstructing Western civilization around their ears and are terrified of the Brave New World liberals are ushering in. They are reacting out of fear, panic, and resentment towards a cultural elite that considers them ignorant rabble that needs to be told to shut the fuck up, rather than educated – and often it appears that the cultural elite doesn’t want to explain itself because whenever it tries, it’s so obviously intellectually bankrupt that even the uneducated rabble can see right through it.
Shouldn’t you be better than that? Isn’t that your whole premise? That you’re smarter than them?
So to be clear: You come here telling the “lib left” they need to behave more rationally, and when asked what that would look like you respond with sarcasm, insults, and don’t actually answer the question.
I don’t think you’re exactly role modeling “reacting like a sane person” here.
The question was glib nonsense. It’s not about how one reacts to any individual thing Trump does, especially not when that thing is itself a reaction to the larger context of the liberal/left reaction to Trump’s mere existence.
That’s some a-grade bullshit. Expecting an obvious criminal to face some justice and maybe not be put in charge again… that’s reactionary?
“hurr durr I don’t support trump but he didn’t do nothing wrong!”
Get bent you goon.
Of course, repubs are only fascists to own the libs! It makes so much sense!
Yes, basically. If you insist on calling every right-wing reaction “fascism,” then yes, people broadly support “fascism” because they hate liberal progressives. Every single country where fascism has ever arisen, it did so in response to leftist agitation.
Whatever you need to keep justifying your shitty beliefs there bud
“I don’t support Trump now enjoy as I spend multiple hours of my day explaining how he’s the GOAT”
“I’m so stupid I think I can win an argument by making up quotes. I literally have no idea what a strawman argument is.” - Facebones
My beliefs are entirely irrelevant.
What is relevant is that those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.
trumpisn is fascism you dimwit
“Trumpism” isn’t even a thing. You give Donald Trump far too much intellectual credit.
Expecting an obvious criminal to face some justice and maybe not be put in charge again… that’s reactionary?
Please learn to read before insulting people. I said the “only way the lib left could make the reactionary right reject Trump…” Obviously, I was calling right-wingers who support Trump reactionary. You call me a goon, but you’re illiterate. So really, maybe you shouldn’t be insulting people.
Dude, you came barrelling into this comment section already angry and ready for a fight.
What’s your point? That I came here willing to argue with you caused lingh0e to fail a basic reading comprehension check?
You people engage in insults and tone-policing because you’re mindless NPCs whose politics is based entirely on group identification and you’re not actually capable of making real arguments. None of you can actually dig down into your belief system and justify it from first principles, nor do any of you have any real grasp of the intellectual underpinnings of your beliefs, nor are you cognizant of the history that has brought us to this point. You’re just screeching monkeys, flinging shit at things because you’re emotionally agitated. None of you actually thinks. That’s why lingh0e reacted with rage to a comment they didn’t even parse correctly, and it’s why you think I came here “angry” (you’re projecting your own emotions onto me).
You people engage in insults and tone-policing because… (Immediately resumes their insults and tone policing from other posts)
It’s always projection.
Thank you for proving my point.
Tiktok did that? I wish somebody had called YouTube to film it live.
The hacker 4chan might have been able to assist as well.
Different question. How is it that in the USA it is legal to run for president when you are a convicted felon? I mean you obviously do not qualify for the job.
I think the reasoning is that otherwise opponents can block political candidates by using the justice system. The opposite of what’s happening now.
The founding fathers haven’t theorized that this particular situation could happen.
The founding fathers haven’t theorized that this particular situation could happen.
Which you can’t even blame them for, honestly. Who in the 18th century would have thought a huge chunk of the country would want a known despot?
Who in the 18th century would have thought a huge chunk of the country would want a known despot?
Well there is the French 16 th century thinker Etienne de la Boétie who wrote a discourse on voluntary servitude in which he argued that men do tend to simp for tyrants over being free a lot of the time:
The essay argues that any tyrant remains in power while his subjects grant him that, therefore delegitimizing every form of power. The original freedom of men would be indeed abandoned by society which, once corrupted by the habit, would have preferred the servitude of the courtier to the freedom of the free man, who refuses to be submissive and to obey.
Very interesting thank you!
That’s silly, if you’re powerful enough to do that, you can just imprison them. No one probably thought about this, that’s all
It’s not that silly if law enforcement officials and judges are elected, like how they are in the American system. Ideally the court/justice system is entirely loose from politics.
Also don’t forget that the founding fathers did all partake in sedition, many of them not really having a clear slate whatsoever.
But yeah this particular instance hasn’t crossed their minds at all.
Afaik the idea is that you want to avoid someone to be able to convict their opponents. So make it impossible to take them out using the legal system. Makes total sense to me.
Campaign donators need some sign that you will bend to their demands, and so having a decent felony record is a good indication that you will play ball.
Same reason felons can vote; if being a criminal removes your ability to participate in the political process then the government suddenly has a very strong incentive to criminalize their political opponents.
But his trial was political /s
