• Pezevenk [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    1·
    6 years ago

    Lol the mod is Greek and he sounds exactly like every Greek “centrist” ever, including lies about the “lawlessness” in universities and cringelord celebratory posts about every national celebration, except 17 November of course, and shitting on feminism.

  • cum_drinker69 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    1·
    6 years ago

    What i find amusing and illustrative in this argument is replacing “draw Muhammad” with “saying the n-word” and it being the same fucking argument.

    ok look i literally do not give a fuck what is offensive to your religion, drawing a picture of some guy saying the n-word is not immoral and anyone who suggests that it is can eat my entire ass

    Basically we’ve got a lot of americans on this site who rightfully feel guilt at kicking disadvantaged people in their own country, but fuck off about caring about the disadvantaged people in other white imperialist countries, they can suck my dick if they don’t like it.

      • qublics [they/them,she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        1·
        6 years ago

        If you wish to undermine religious authority that means reducing the number of religious adherents.
        These divisive tactics with insults, misrepresentations, and minority oppression are not effective towards those ends.

        Islamophobia is playing into our enemies hands; they rule via divide and conquer.
        As leftists what we should aim for is mutual understanding and cooperation.

        We want religious (and non-religious) people to become more accepting, reasonable, and less reactionary.
        Insults only put people into a defensive position. And this only empowers religious authorities.

        When people publicly insult Mohamed, where do Muslims turn to for support and solidarity?

        You have to be more pragmatic about this. There is no slippery slope when your position is rooted in utilitarian concerns.
        If freedom of expression were meaningfully at risk then we could simply pivot our tactics.
        Those who insult Islam have done nothing wrong; but those insulting Islam to hurt and marginalize Muslims within society are no better than any other bigot.

        Terrorist attacks in response to such expression is already systematically opposed, so what more do you want?
        Mosques and Muslim communities are already under surveillance throughout Europe.

        Freedom of expression does not mean we have to celebrate every time somebody says something that offends others.
        If anything, freedom expression used in this way and on such a scale, causing violence and social unrest, is what puts freedom of expression seriously at risk.

        If I thought that via Mohamed cartoons within three years we would have millions more ex-Muslims; then absolutely publish away.
        But this same shit has been going on for over a decade and I don’t think it’s working.

        • foxodroid [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
          0·
          6 years ago

          He’s a religious figure and the guy’s been dead for 1400 . How can anyone be possibly bigoted against that?

          I’m tired of this shit. Comparing a racial slur with mild religious criticism or even pointless mockery is an extremely dumb take. Especially in a context where someone got beheaded over it

          • Moonrise [comrade/them,they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            1·
            6 years ago

            islam and race are intertwined in the west though. Non muslim arabs are considered Muslims by the general population if they don’t say otherwise. so directly antagonizing muslims is racist.

    • Drewfro [he/him,they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      1·
      6 years ago

      China is taking direct and effective anti-terrorism operations that focus on education; France is defending the rights of bigots to be bigots. The Xinjiang Schooling Programs have a great likelihood to completely or almost completely eliminate terrorism in Xinjiang after only a few years; to portray both as violent acts against Muslims ignores the fact that France seeks only to exclude, alienate, and offend while China seeks to educate and integrate - which is why almost every single Muslim country on earth, even erstwhile U.S. allies like Saudi Arabia - are backing the Chinese and opposing the French.

  • Amorphous [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    0·
    6 years ago

    ok look i literally do not give a fuck what is offensive to your religion, drawing a picture of some guy is not immoral and anyone who suggests that it is can eat my entire ass

    i dont care if you’re religious, but that apathy ends the second you start asking me to follow your dumb fucking religion’s dumb fucking rules. fuck off

    • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      1·
      6 years ago

      i literally do not give a fuck what is offensive

      eat my entire ass

      fuck off

      Civility at the expense of accomplishing something real is bullshit, but man, you’re not going to get very far with very many people if you’re just an outright asshole.

      • Amorphous [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        0·
        6 years ago

        Do you understand how traumatic it is to grow up in an environment ruled, socially and legally, by religion? It’s fucking horrifying. And then to see people who are supposed to be supporting you calling you racist, a chud, an asshole, etc for daring to suggest that religion shouldn’t control the life of a non-religious person? That’s terrifying too. I’m lashing out because this is truly a terrible, disgusting thing that people here are thoughtlessly supporting.

    • Funnyleaf [he/him,use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      1·
      6 years ago

      Lmao bro is this how you treat trans comrades as well? it’s super easy to respect a muslim’s desire to not depict the prophet because it’s disrespectful, much like it’s easy to use someone’s preferred pronouns. imagine respecting people lmao

      • chmos [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        0·
        6 years ago

        What kind of consistency is this idea based on? That whenever someone holds someone else in high esteem you have to respect that? So by this logic could Trump supporters call you bigoted for drawing mean pictures of Trump?

          • chmos [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            0·
            6 years ago

            Drawing a mean picture of a Muslim is islamophobic. Respect Muslims of course. But raping a child, advocating slavery, etc. This does preclude you from respect and no one else can save you from that.

            • Funnyleaf [he/him,use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
              1·
              6 years ago

              It is clear that your outlook on Islam and Mohammed isn’t based on a wide breadth of knowledge on the subject, which isn’t particularly surprising or unique. This is okay though, because I’ve been noticing that there has been a concerted effort from some Muslim users on this site to try to reach out and inform comrades about misconceptions like what you’ve mentioned here. I saw a post by u/Saif, moderator of the new c/islam, regarding another user’s perception of Aisha (“raping a child”) that might clear that up, for instance.

            • Funnyleaf [he/him,use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
              1·
              6 years ago

              Listen man I’m not a believer either, i’m not saying you should be following any religious doctrine. I’m just saying there’s no material difference between respecting someone’s cultural or religious sensibilities. You’re alienating religious comrades for what seems to be no reason other than an imagined, arbitrary distinction between religion and any other way of life.

              I could use your same logic to say that i should be able to use the n word because i arbitrarily decided that the set of social rules around why i shouldn’t don’t apply to me, and i shouldn’t be expected to follow them.

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      1·
      6 years ago

      Carrying around a picture of a butchered steer isn’t immoral but it would upset some people. Carrying one around and showing it to everyone just because you’re upset that people are vegan would be kind of a dick move.

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          1·
          6 years ago

          Veganism is a set of beliefs and practices based around a shared moral and ideological belief, so yes, it is a religion.

          And yes, running around with a picture that you know will upset people for the explicit purpose of upsetting people is exactly the same.

          • GravenImage [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            0·
            6 years ago

            a set of beliefs and practices based around a shared moral and ideological belief, so yes, it is a religion.

            >libs trying to argue marxism or science is a religion

            • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
              1·
              6 years ago

              So, coming from an anthropology perspective - Lots of things are religions. It’s not a big deal. Chicago School economics is a religion. Liberal economics is a religion. Marxism, scientific or not, is a religion. “The Revolution” is an eschatological conflict at the end of history, at once immanent in our lives yet also constantly occupying the horizon of time.

              Something being a religion doesn’t comment on it’s moral qualities or truth value or whatever, it’s just a descriptive term. And Veganism, with it’s distinctive beliefs, moral code, dietary restrictions, cultural markers, etc etc etc, counts.