I’m not having that debate. Nobody cares except bigots trying to hurt trans people. If you’re not, don’t get sucked into that debate. They’re arguing in bad faith
Has Domi pointed out elsewhere in this thread. There is no evidence that transgender women have a physical advantage over cisgender women, provided they’ve been on HRT for 2+ years. here’s the meta-analysis they linked
So yeah, based off of:
It shouldn’t, but it does. As a matter of what is statistically relevant about the dichotomy between males and females.
You’re either a bigot trying to use sports to hurt trans people, or you’ve been duped by bigots. So, unless you’re made of straw Qevlarr isn’t using a straw man argument.
I’m a vegan. When i see people eating beef, I don’t claim “either you like hurting cows, or you’ve been duped by people who hate animals”.
I’m not a vegan or even a vegetarian, but I wouldn’t argue with you if you made that claim, because the only reason we as a society eat as much meat as we do, is because it’s normalised at every level for economic reasons.
If I can manage that, you can manage to not argue with trans people trying to deal with the active and ongoing exclusion they face.
This systematic review aligns with previous ones in highlighting critical research limitations. This includes the typically short study durations (<3 years) and a lack of data on elite athletes.
So we aren’t talking about Olympic tier athletes.
Also, the authors themselves acknowledge the evidence quality sits between very low and low
For what it’s worth, I don’t give a shit about “fairness” in sports. What I am pushing back on is the insinuation that people are either malicious or manipulated if they don’t accept the assertion that trans women do not have a competitive advantage.
At best, it’s uncharitable, and at worst, it a litmus test.
Then why the fuck are you even in this discussion?
Because I believe what I’m saying is important?
Whatever point you think I’m making, I’m not. I absolutely believe trans athletes should be capable of competing in whatever gender sports category they want, provided they are within range of their fellow athletes.
is that true, though? What I’ve read is that the science is showing the opposite, that sex is mostly plastic and that after a couple years on hormones, trans women have similar fitness and athletic ability as cis women:
While transgender women exhibited higher lean mass than cisgender women, their physical fitness was comparable.
transgender women’s VO₂ max, when adjusted for weight, aligns with cisgender women,4 further supporting parity in endurance capabilities
the absence of strength disparities between transgender women and cisgender women found in the current review was consistent and contradicts narratives framing male puberty as conferring irreversible athletic advantages despite [gender-affirming hormone therapy].
transgender women’s pretherapy advantages in push-ups and sit-ups disappeared after 2 years of feminising hormones among 46 individuals who started [gender-affirming hormone therapy] while in the US Air Force.
This systematic review aligns with previous ones in highlighting critical research limitations. This includes the typically short study durations (<3 years) and a lack of data on elite athletes.
So we aren’t talking about Olympic tier athletes.
Also, the authors themselves acknowledge the evidence quality sits between very low and low
Why are you demanding that someone proves no advantage exists? If you find the level of proof ambiguous, then the null hypothesis must be that no difference exists. That’s just basic respect for human rights and dignity.
Realize what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that trans women and girls be completely cut off from competitive sports in any form. Trans women are conclusively far below cis men in performance. We’re just squabbling over whether some minute advantage exists over cis women. Trans women can’t just go and play with the guys. You’re arguing for trans women to be completely excluded from any form of sports whatsoever, a complete expulsion from an entire realm of human culture and experience.
If you’re arguing for something so radical and cruel, the burden of proof is on you. The default assumption is equality. We don’t take away civil rights on a whim. If it can be scientifically shown, on a sport-by-sport basis, that trans women have some massive advantage over cis women? Fine. In that case I might support a handicap system, or if that were not possible, exclusion as a last resort. But the burden for proof for that should be high. You’re hurting real people here. Unless you can scientifically prove that some advantage exists, the default assumption must be that no advantage exists.
It shouldn’t, but it does. As a matter of what is statistically relevant about the dichotomy between males and females.
I’m not having that debate. Nobody cares except bigots trying to hurt trans people. If you’re not, don’t get sucked into that debate. They’re arguing in bad faith
You’re arguing in bad faith?
You are creating a strawman by claiming anyone who cares about gender in sports is a bigot who is trying to hurt trans people.
No, I said people are being duped into debating by bigots. This is about politics, not sports.
That’s a strawman.
You are saying that people do not reach that conclusion on their own.
Has Domi pointed out elsewhere in this thread. There is no evidence that transgender women have a physical advantage over cisgender women, provided they’ve been on HRT for 2+ years. here’s the meta-analysis they linked
So yeah, based off of:
You’re either a bigot trying to use sports to hurt trans people, or you’ve been duped by bigots. So, unless you’re made of straw Qevlarr isn’t using a straw man argument.
Cool, I’ll check it out, but the claim is still a strawman.
I’m a vegan. When i see people eating beef, I don’t claim “either you like hurting cows, or you’ve been duped by people who hate animals”.
The claim itself is stupid and needlessly inflammatory.
I’m not a vegan or even a vegetarian, but I wouldn’t argue with you if you made that claim, because the only reason we as a society eat as much meat as we do, is because it’s normalised at every level for economic reasons.
If I can manage that, you can manage to not argue with trans people trying to deal with the active and ongoing exclusion they face.
Here’s the issue though:
The claim itself is a strawman, the fact that you are willing to accept it means your epistemology is bad.
So we aren’t talking about Olympic tier athletes.
Also, the authors themselves acknowledge the evidence quality sits between very low and low
For what it’s worth, I don’t give a shit about “fairness” in sports. What I am pushing back on is the insinuation that people are either malicious or manipulated if they don’t accept the assertion that trans women do not have a competitive advantage.
At best, it’s uncharitable, and at worst, it a litmus test.
Then why the fuck are you even in this discussion, arguing with people trying to defend a highly marginalised section of the community?
If you “don’t care”, then dropping it so as to not be part of the active exclusion of trans people would be the appropriate move.
Because I believe what I’m saying is important?
Whatever point you think I’m making, I’m not. I absolutely believe trans athletes should be capable of competing in whatever gender sports category they want, provided they are within range of their fellow athletes.
is that true, though? What I’ve read is that the science is showing the opposite, that sex is mostly plastic and that after a couple years on hormones, trans women have similar fitness and athletic ability as cis women:
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2026/01/22/bjsports-2025-110239
I’m going to plagiarise myself:
So we aren’t talking about Olympic tier athletes.
Also, the authors themselves acknowledge the evidence quality sits between very low and low
Why are you demanding that someone proves no advantage exists? If you find the level of proof ambiguous, then the null hypothesis must be that no difference exists. That’s just basic respect for human rights and dignity.
Realize what you are suggesting. You are suggesting that trans women and girls be completely cut off from competitive sports in any form. Trans women are conclusively far below cis men in performance. We’re just squabbling over whether some minute advantage exists over cis women. Trans women can’t just go and play with the guys. You’re arguing for trans women to be completely excluded from any form of sports whatsoever, a complete expulsion from an entire realm of human culture and experience.
If you’re arguing for something so radical and cruel, the burden of proof is on you. The default assumption is equality. We don’t take away civil rights on a whim. If it can be scientifically shown, on a sport-by-sport basis, that trans women have some massive advantage over cis women? Fine. In that case I might support a handicap system, or if that were not possible, exclusion as a last resort. But the burden for proof for that should be high. You’re hurting real people here. Unless you can scientifically prove that some advantage exists, the default assumption must be that no advantage exists.