References
- “Gulf of America - Gulf of Mexico”. stillhart. General talk. OpenStreetMap Community Forum. Published: 2025-01-20T17:37:25.493Z. Accessed: 2025-01-21T08:47Z. https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/gulf-of-america-gulf-of-mexico/124571.
- “Restoring Names That Honor American Greatness”. The White House. Published: 2025-01-20. Accessed: 2025-01-22T06:59Z. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/restoring-names-that-honor-american-greatness/.
- §“Sec. 4”
Looking at a map, it would really be best named the Gulf of the Americas.
But otherwise is this reminiscent of Erdoğan’s decree changing the name of Turkey to Turkiye.
A map should show the established name, i.e., the most widely understood designation, the one that enjoys the most consensus, including among specialists, historians, and so on. In a sane world, dictators do not get to wake up one morning and decide to change our maps.
It’s still the Gulf of Mexico.
reminiscent of Erdoğan’s decree changing the name of Turkey to Turkiye.
America doesn’t hold sovereignty over international waters; at least, not without blatant displays of toxic macho force.
Gulf of Mexico. If need be, use and report ONLY the common Spanish name used by regional leaders. Fuck 45.
*the usa doesn’t
Just call it the Gulf of Mexico and be done with it.
For ducks sake, just because one country wants it to be different doesn’t change how it’s internationally recognized.
Do note that there are commonly used methods in OSM to add local names [1.1], alternate names [1.2], language specific names [1.2], etc [1].
References
- “Names”. OpenStreetMap Wiki. Published: 2024-11-20T00:17. Accessed: 2025-02-04T02:41Z. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names.
- §“Local names (loc_name)”. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Local_names_(loc_name).
- §“Alternate names (alt_name)”. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Alternate_names_(alt_name).
- §“Localization”. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Localization.
A quick read finds me the local name should not be recognized under those either. That is, until it’s actually commonly referred to like that. Then still, it would only be a local nickname to some region.
And the other two don’t appear to apply at all. Perhaps as language evolves a bit in the coming decades this might change.
Oh, yeah — I wasn’t inferring that any one of those is the appropriate tag for this purpose; I was just mentioning that there are methods for tagging alternate names depending on the context, and that, perhaps, something similar could be done for this purpose (which, imo, it seems is main topic of discussion in the linked forum post).
I think it’s a needless discussion. Let’s wait until anything actually changes officially before we start going with some wild claim
[…] Let’s wait until anything actually changes officially […]
Hm, I would argue that there is no such thing as “officially” in regards to OpenStreetMap. Or are you referring to the name “Gulf of America” changing officially in the USA?
Yes, I am. I don’t expect it to change internationally anytime soon
[…] Let’s wait until anything actually changes officially before we start going with some wild claim
I wasn’t claiming anything — or, perhaps I misunderstand what you mean? Would you mind clarifying?
It’s a general suggestion in the light of the recent political developments. I think OSM shouldn’t just go out and follow every random suggestion any politician makes.
This isn’t the only region recently contested by one leader either
[…] I think OSM shouldn’t just go out and follow every random suggestion any politician makes. […]
I think there’s some use in including a countries official names for specific features, in some way. I’m not saying that the primary name should be that, but it’s at least a name that is known and conceivably could be searched.
- “Names”. OpenStreetMap Wiki. Published: 2024-11-20T00:17. Accessed: 2025-02-04T02:41Z. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names.
I think we should just ignore anything that comes out of this admin to the greatest extent practical. Don’t give them legitimacy.
Legtimacy? The guy won the popular vote. Like it or not, legitimacy there is.
He only won in one country… I’m assuming that the dozen or so non-USians on the web are allowed to use OSM…
Obviously. I’m one of them
Yes…that’s why we call them “Freedom Fries”… riiiight…
The idiot president of one country can call it whatever he wants. But it doesn’t make it internationally recognized.
I think the discussion there is quite reasonable given the circumstances, and
official_name:en-USonce the GNIS updates is the correct way to go until people actually start calling it the new name.what a stupid timeline this is
Looks like the thread is gone now, what was the discussion like?
Only time I deadname.
Why? There are commisions for that. E.g. the United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names (international), the United States Board on Geographic Names (USA) or the Permanent Committee on Geographical Names (UK). Just follow the lead of one of these. There is no need to further complicate stuff.
What the hell is “the ground rule”? Naming is artificially defining things and as that basically arbitrary.
@menemen “on the ground rule”, it means you go there and see what it’s being called there. We don’t just follow diktats from one office.
How would that even fit here? If the US changes the name there would be two names that fit that description (which isn’t uncommon at all tbh).
On osm there is one main attribute
name, and other secondary names likealt_name,loc_name,official_name, etc, and different language versions of all of them e.g.name:en,name:esetc… This is not a political question, but technical, how it should be recorded according to the osm tagging scheme, how this rare situation should be mapped, it’s not straightforward. More info in the wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names
There’s nothing to discuss. It’s the Gulf of Mexico, and suggestions to the contrary are to be appropriately dismissed as childish.
Aa a side note, make sure that, no matter what, you find a way to follow “Gulf of” with “Mexico”. It should flow by rote in the hearer’s mind, simply by virtue of the fact that they hear it the correct way when you talk about it.
This is a trivially easy battle to fight. Only use the correct name, and it will be the one that sticks. Using the incorrect name, even to make correct statements about how it’s dumb and childish and not going to be its name going forward, reinforces the lie.
Mexico is the Gulf-of-havin’est thing you ever did see.
OSM exists to record and map facts, not to dictate them. If some people call it that way, than it should be recorded in the database, it’s not about personal preferences and politics, we shouldn’t decide if the name is right or not. If you read the linked forum thread you can see that it is purely technical, about how we should record it in the database and when (now vs when and if it will become official)
It’s a bit annoying here that a lot of people misunderstands this, and comments recommendations with near zero osm mapping experience, this is about how to map a thing on OpenStreetMap, not about politics.
I could imagine Trump deciding that a random bird needed to be named after himself, and inaturalist having a forum discussion about localization etc. It’s probably the same kind of debate here
How does OSM deal with Arabian Gulf / Persian Gulf? I’ve only ever seen it referred to by the latter name by western sources but only the former name in Arabic over here.
I’m well aware that the name “declaration” of Arabian Gulf was a political move in the 20th century, but I’ve never seen the name Persian Gulf in Arabic. Never.
Just curious.
Check the community discussion thread (linked in the OP). I’m not sure they cover the Persian/Arabian Gulf specifically, but in general terms your question is likely answered in that thread.
TL;DR: There are various tags, prefixes, suffixes, whole nine yards for documenting all the different types of names.
Seems idiotic to me to discuss what some nutter suggested no matter their current job title. Everything in the world has been named already geography wise.
