• WamGams@lemmy.ca
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    1 month ago

    And you are no closer to accomplishing your goals…

    There is a reason socialists in the US vote for the democratic party: we have influence in participation and have been granted concessions.

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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      1 month ago

      My goal is to never vote for the Dems or Republicans after 2016 so thanks for telling me I’m no closer but I think I am.

      Knowing that I’ve made that commitment to myself let’s me vote for the candidates I actually want, without fear of “causing the worse of the two” to win

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        Pretending a spoiler candidate has a chance of winning and getting zero percent of what you want doesn’t make you more moral than the people who vote for the furthest left candidate with the ability to win and getting 5% of what you wanted.

        We have an obligation and a moral duty to fight fascism at the ballot box. Voting for a fascists’ spoiler because the spoiler pretends they are on your side is not strength on your part, it is cowardice.

        • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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          1 month ago

          We have an obligation and a moral duty to fight fascism at the ballot box

          Nah the whole thing is a joke. The Dems are corrupt but the Republicans are worse, so I feel a moral obligation to support neither.

          • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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            1 month ago

            If you admit that Republicans are worse, than you have to admit that voting for spoiler candidates who help elected Republicans is the worse option than just voting democratic.

            You can’t admit that Republicans are worse than use what little political capital you have to help them while pretending you are more moral than those of us who vote democratic.

            You are just sniffing your own farts and pretending you are better than those of us who you leave behind to actually make the decision to help as many we are given the ability to.

            • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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              1 month ago

              Your point would make a lot more sense if the continuous “Dems vs Republicans” for decades didn’t bring us to this point. But alas, we’re in a bad spot where “this election” is the “most important” one yet. Yeah right lmao. Cya at the ballet box

              • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                1 month ago

                No, you won’t see me at the ballot box. You will be getting high off the false morality injection voting for some dingbat gives you, while I will be trying to prevent a fascist with intentions of being a day one dictator from taking power.

                • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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                  1 month ago

                  There’s a few situations

                  1. You like the current duopoly, perpetually vote Dems and accept Republicans will take office some terms

                  2. You don’t like the current duopoly, vote third party, and accept you’re helping Republicans take office this term

                  If Republicans getting into office a few more terms means “the end of democracy” or “the end of X rights”, democracy and x rights are already on their way out. If more people voting third party makes the dems push for ranked voting or adopt policies that will solve the perpetual voting issue, then that lays the groundwork for a democratic future.

                  See you at the ballot box.

                  • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                    1 month ago

                    If you think doing your part to make sure a fascist gets elected will gain you ranked choice voting, you are naive.

                    I don’t believe you are that naive, nor do I believe you truly think that.

                    I think statements like that probably sound believable to 18 year old communists who haven’t learned the word discernment yet.

                    There is a word for people who themselves are not fascist but regardless work to install fascism under the belief that they will personally benefit from it (as you do with thinking fascism is necessary to gain ranked choice).

                    That word is “fascist.”

      • Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 month ago

        So you’re the kind of person staring at a forest but all you can make out is a tree. I do imagine that kind of willful ignorance helps to comfort you. The reality is the best you will ever influence, while feigning ignorance to how things actually work, is a tree. Maybe one day you will open your eyes and recognize the potential influence for change you could have harnessed if your kind attempted to constructively change things within the constraints we were born into rather than cutting off the face of your allies while being or feigning ignorance in reality.

        • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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          1 month ago

          Nah I’m the kind of person who realizes a constant vote for the “lesser evil” is a slow slip into facism, and I would rather rip off the bandaid instead.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Nah I’m the kind of person who realizes a constant vote for the “lesser evil” is a slow slip into facism, and I would rather rip off the bandaid instead.

            “I want fascism as fast as possible” is a hell of a take, but one that seems frighteningly common amongst .ml users.

    • SSJMarx@lemm.ee
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      1 month ago

      socialists in the US vote for the democratic party

      If you’re voting for the democratic party then you are not a socialist. Politics aren’t just a feeling you have or something you say you believe in, they’re actions that you take.

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        I didn’t realize putting Marx in your name entitled you to the ability of gatekeeping socialism from everybody who doesn’t live in your imaginary socialist world and instead have to deal with the political realities of the system they are operating in.

        • SSJMarx@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          Imagine for a moment that you are a pacifist. But then you join the military, go overseas, and kill hundreds of people. Should you get to call yourself a pacifist? Of course not!

          Same theory here. If you think socialist thoughts, speak socialist words, and then support capitalist parties - then you my friend are a capitalist. There are plenty of ways to do socialist praxis within a political system where the electral system has been entirely captured by capitalist interests, so don’t you waste your tears crying about “gatekeeping”.

          • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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            1 month ago

            I don’t support capitalism.

            I live in a capitalist world and currently only have a choice between capitalism that can be negotiated with, or full blown fascist flavored capitalism.

            If you hate liberalism more than you do fascism, you aren’t a socialist.

            • SSJMarx@lemm.ee
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              1 month ago

              Liberalism and fascism are two sides of the same coin, like a “good cop” and a “bad cop,” the only thing that distinguished the fascism of mid 20th century Europe was that it was being applied to Europeans, rather than its typical targets.

              But that doesn’t actually matter in this case, because both of the options on offer for Americans have participated enthusiastically in bringing fascism to American communities. The Dems are the ones currently backing Israel’s genocide and escalation, the Dems are the ones who built the cages and the Dems are the ones currently throwing kids in them.

              Biden could shoot someone on fifth avenue and you liberals would still think that he’s somehow better than Trump.

              • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                1 month ago

                I am confused because Trump made the comment regarding committing murder on 5th Avenue as explanation of his cult’s loyalty, but you are claiming that is a Biden thing. I’m also unsure of the relevance, seeing that Biden isn’t one of the two choices you are being given to elected as your next president…

                I’m regards to Palestine, there are two options: the democrats and working towards a peace deal, or Trump, who wants to finish the job of eradicating Palestinians. Voting for anybody but Harris is a vote for total eradication in this case, and I’m not going to let you pretend that isn’t the case if we are to continue this dialog.