Search on Telegram is more powerful than in other messaging apps because it allows users to find public channels and bots. Unfortunately, this feature has been abused by people who violated our Terms of Service to sell illegal goods.
To further deter criminals from abusing Telegram Search, we have updated our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, ensuring they are consistent across the world. We’ve made it clear that the IP addresses and phone numbers of those who violate our rules can be disclosed to relevant authorities in response to valid legal requests.
So what’s the replacement?
The first messenger without user IDs
Other apps have user IDs: Signal, Matrix, Session, Briar, Jami, Cwtch, etc. SimpleX does not, not even random numbers. This radically improves your privacy. Why user IDs are bad for privacy? How does SimpleX work? Security assessment
For private messaging? Signal was always better. The way I use Telegram, and the way Telegram should be used, is like another public social media. I use it for following channels that give news about things I’m interested in.
All completely irrelevant to most people. Nobody they know is on those platforms.
There are only two alternatives to the Big Tech messengers that are anywhere near critical mass: Signal and the shady one we’re talking about here.
Though I would love Matrix to go mainstream.
This is sadly the exact reason it will stay like this. People can’t reach me because i don’t use WhatsApp? Well bad luck. Use a better app or just don’t. I can’t reach them because they only use WA? What a bummer but so be it.
As long as people install WhatsCrapp because some distant aunt still uses it for the xmas-greetings, it will continue to be #1.
Doesn’t it get lonely though?
I remember the times where we didn’t have a tiny computer with us all day to be reachable. And if I’d be lonely because i don’t give a rats ass about WA, fb and the likes, that’d be indeed lonely but not due to that
I was talking about your attitude. Lol.
I feel like there needs to be an incentive in mind for those apps to bring in ppl. People care about privacy but won’t even delete FB, let alone use a different messaging app
If they cared about privacy then they wouldn’t use a searchable public database like FB.
I think there’s misconceptions, trust being put in the wrong place, unawareness involved, or simply they don’t think it through, rather than not caring (anectodal/IMO). E.g. “I don’t have anything to hide, so what if they collect everything”.
If we could build a tool to gather such info, that’s easily accessible and for free, to show all the data available on you in the marketplace - that might make them uncomfortable. And then perhaps they’ll start to try and understand why they’re uncomfortable, and why this is bad.
Signal was always better
I love the premise of Signal, but there are too many red flags. Some of my issues are:
- Hostility against 3rd party clients
- US-based legal entity
- Too much tied with Google libs on android
- No official Fdroid support
- Open source claims are undermined by code blackouts from time to time.
Matrix?
Element 2.0 or Signal is only worth ones, I think.
But to be honest - it’s only IP and phone number. If you have concerns about possibility of such request about your persona, you always can buy Telegram’s anonymous phone number / fake telephone number / use VPN to login.
Element I’m not that sure, it’s so bloated that I’m surprised it works on mobile phones. Regarding matrix sure
They said element 2.0, which I’d assume means Element X using matrix 2.0. From my testing in the last few weeks, element X has been the fastest messaging app I’ve ever used. Probably still some bugs but does not feel bloated anymore at all.
Who do you talk to on it?
regarding its UX, nothing close exists; when it comes to converting normies, so you have someone to actually talk to, then there are no alternatives. that’s a pretty shitty state of affairs for something that shoulda been solved a long time ago.
lesson learned, I guess, don’t put all your eggs in one basket and have multiple fallback solutions. I’ve begrudingly moved to Signal and I’m cursing it out at least once per day, can’t believe the navel-gazing, self-righteous cluelessness behind it; but that’s the best there is at the moment. it’s beyond shitty that we’re having trouble achieving what we had in like 2012 by way of XMPP and friends, let alone surpassing it.
XMPP is still around although there’s a constant campaign trying to claim it’s gone.
because things moved forward in the last decade or so and it’s not viable. the same way matrix and element and those ridiculous things aren’t viable and never will be. can you use it today? absolutely. can you convert normies to it and make it an actual widely used comms platform? no. fucking. way.
this is coming from a guy running their own prosody instance and utilizing rocketchat on two separate client instances. yeah, I know how to set it up and deploy it; but the amount of absolutely credible complaints I get from normies forced to use it staggering.
XMPP would be viable in theory but for whatever reason no one wants to build a modern client out of it.
How do you define modern? I would call these modern clients personally:
- Android: Conversations
- iOS / MacOS: Monal
- Linux: Dino
- Windows: Gajim
modern as in stable, good UX, plug-and-play, and supporting features a modern chat client is expected to have with zero hassle.
the stuff needed to convince your mom to install it.
Good thing I never used telegram.
It’s not like they exactly didn’t before: https://www.androidpolice.com/telegram-germany-user-data-surrendered/
Also, nothing said about whether they’re going to start making transparency reports, not that I’ve expected anything else from this crapshow of a messenger…
we have updated our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, ensuring they are consistent across the world.
They never told they didn’t
They’ve explicitly told in there FAQ 0 bytes of info was disclosed. And I suspect whatever they’ve shared with Germans alone wasn’t 7 bits long.
FAQ =/= TOS
In FAQ, you aren’t punished if you tell BS there, at least as I understand it.
They made it now more clear, what exactly mean by 0 byte:
any way to read this without a telegram account?
Sorry, should’ve provided the whole post:
Spoiler
🔎 Search on Telegram is more powerful than in other messaging apps because it allows users to find public channels and bots. Unfortunately, this feature has been abused by people who violated our Terms of Service to sell illegal goods.
💪 Over the last few weeks, a dedicated team of moderators, leveraging AI, has made Telegram Search much safer. All the problematic content we identified in Search is no longer accessible. If you still manage to find something unsafe or illegal in Telegram Search, please report it to us via @SearchReport.
🚫 To further deter criminals from abusing Telegram Search, we have updated our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, ensuring they are consistent across the world. We’ve made it clear that the IP addresses and phone numbers of those who violate our rules can be disclosed to relevant authorities in response to valid legal requests.
☝️ These measures should discourage criminals. Telegram Search is meant for finding friends and discovering news, not for promoting illegal goods. We won’t let bad actors jeopardize the integrity of our platform for almost a billion users.👀 Was this written by AI, or was it a person trying to be as annoying with their emojis as possible?
“Protecting the children” is always code for “We’re manufacturing consent to fuck you over.”
Honestly that isn’t bad. They were knowingly protecting people who target children.
Privacy should be enforced on a technical level with zero knowledge
“Protecting the children” is always the excuse for fascism, pay attention.
It has nothing to do with fascism. Fascism is what left leaning politicians call people they don’t agree with. On the right they call people they don’t like communists.
Outside of that mini rant I disagree with the idea that Telegram is a force for good. Telegram doesn’t use e2ee and has questionable ties. They let people in public group chats post CSAM and other child abuse related stuff. If you look up telegram in the news it is constantly the platform used by criminals. It isn’t private and it sure isn’t anonymous. There are many better alternatives that don’t actively support human trafficking and such. Its not like Telegram has zero knowledge of what happens. They knowingly allowed people to exploit children and then to go around bragging and plotting to harm others.
This isn’t some attack on freedom or privacy. Telegram is frankly a risk to all. If you want encrypted messaging there are many other platforms that are way less sketchy.
Time to close all the fascist schools and put the kids back in factories as Marx intended.
You seem to have made what’s known as a converse error in your logic:
The person you replied to said that
All fascist ideologies will use the argument of “Protecting the children”
You seem to have mistakingly confused that with the false claim
All arguments that use “Protecting the children” are made by fascist ideologies
And as such you have responded to a statement the commenter never made.
And equivalent mistake would be claim that since every time it rains it is cloudy, therefore whenever it is cloudy it is always raining. Honestly logical errors happen for everyone, I hope this helps.
The person you replied to said that
All fascist ideologies will use the argument of “Protecting the children”Did they? Did you just make a reverse strawman fallacy?
Personally I think the comment could’ve been worded better as it can be interpreted either as
… is always the excuse for fascism …
(I.E. Fascists use the excuse, provably correct and can be generalised to authoritarianism in general) However I do see that it could potentially be taken the other way as
… is always the excuse for fascism …
(I.E only those who used the excuse are fascists, completely false) I used the principle of charity and assumed the inital argument was logical, though its understandable if others aren’t willing to do that
Damn, are you Bob Hoskins? Cause you could easily play a live action Mario with that leap.
Hey don’t blame me. You’re the one who used the A-word in a place filled with OCD nitpickers and in a discussion around CSAM.
They can take down the child weirdos and human traffickers
Take down my rom emulation hosted ZIPs and we’ll fucking riot
Well it’s only a matter of time
