Just another way to force you to buy a new one
I hate these proprietary systems because companies have very bad track records in terms of maintenance, since they’d rather you buy a newer product.
In 2022, the automaker told drivers of the affected cars, some only three years old, that a technical solution was delayed by the pandemic. Now, more than two years later, those drivers still don’t have access to telematics services. […] Vehicles from Hyundai and Nissan, some as late as model year 2019, also lost some features after 2022’s 3G sunset.
In a country with good consumer rights, this would be a valid reason to return it and get a replacement or refund: It’s no longer offering functionality that was advertised and that you paid for as part of the purchase price.
In a country with good consumer rights, this would be a valid reason to return it and get a replacement or refund: It’s no longer offering functionality that was advertised and that you paid for as part of the purchase price.
In the EU this would probably be a no-brainer.
Same in Australia, where I’m from. I’m living in the USA now and it’s a lot harder to get refunds for things like this.
The mandatory warranty for any product in the EU is 2 years. It doesn’t take into account products like cars that you would expect to be usable for 10+ years.
I doubt you could claim anything in the EU either after more than 2 years.
I’m not an expert on this, if there are some regulations I didnt take into account, please correct me.
The mandatory warranty for any product in the EU is 2 years
I don’t know a lot about EU policies. In Australia, products must last for as long as a reasonable consumer would expect them to last (for example, 10 years for a large appliance like a fridge), including advertised features or features a sales rep told you about, regardless of the warranty period. A company removing features only three years after purchase would absolutely qualify for a refund or replacement.
I think Australia’s policies are stricter than the EU though. As far as I know, Australia is the only country where you can return games on Steam if there’s a major bug, even if you’ve had it for months and have hundreds of hours of game time. Valve got sued by the government and fined AU$3 million because they tried their “no refunds after 2 hours of game play” approach in Australia, which is illegal there (you can’t have conditions like that on refunds if the refund is for a major issue). https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-posts-a-notice-about-australian-consumer-rights-on-steam/
products must last for as long as a reasonable consumer would expect them to last (for example, 10 years for a large appliance like a fridge),
I never heard about anything like this in the EU. If my fridge or washing machine breaks after 2 years and 1 week I have no legal claim towards the manufacturer.
Actually most big electronic retailers try to sell you additional warranty with the product you buy. So you pay extra to extend warranty to 5 years.
I like the Australian aproach better, though.
Late stage capitalism
How is the 3G sunset not solvable by just swapping out a modem module for an LTE or 5G one and maybe installing some new modem firmware? A lot of cars are running a Linux kernel under the hood, so I’d think it’s pretty well swap and go
Without right to repair, there will be planned obsolescence.
My Citroen EV developed an on board charger fault. It wouldn’t charge. The part was a “coded part” which meant it had to specifically programmed with my EV’s ID by Citroen at manufacture. It took months to finally be fitted and ready. So basically, not only does the coded parts system make service shit, but also means when the manufacturer is done making the part, the car is dead. You can’t swap parts between cars and there is no third party parts. It’s meant to be about car theft, but it’s very convenient it blocks competition and long product life…
If it was a carburetor (which EVs do not have), I’d be okay with a DRM. But boards? Is there an organized crime group that steals EV boards? Next time it will be funking wipers with DRM.
How would carburetor DRM make any sense? Those are super common to take apart and rebuild or replace (like step 1 of every old restoration).
Cellular enabled cars are conceptually dumb. That’s a hill I’m willing to die on.
Makes no sense to me…but at this very moment I’m a hypocrite lol
Me when my car gets hack and remote controlled to drive off a cliff:
“Ahhh” D: sploosh
Naw, I live in a hot as hell country I’m super jealous of people who can remote-start the air conditioning in their cars.
It should be an open interface like OBD2 though where you can choose the hardware/provider instead of being locked to the car manufacturer deprecating everything in 3 years to sell you a new car.
Cars should just come with a big open socket up front, where I can buy (or build) my own infotainment system to install there. That way I can replace it over the course of the car’s lifetime. Or, give me the option to just plug it up or install a traditional car radio or something. I should be able to cram an 8-track player in if I want.
Keep all automobile controls as physical buttons, knobs, and levers.
I haven’t owned a car in over 10 years, but whenever I look at what’s available, I can’t get past how much planned obsolescence is baked into newer cars. I would never buy one…
If automakers focused on cars, and let tech companies and focus on building the infotainment systems, we’d have better choices and less vendor lock-in.
Cars should just come with a big open socket up front, where I can buy (or build) my own infotainment system to install there.
…which is precisely what we used to have, before auto makers decided to insist that they should be enclosed in a swooping dash.
I’d be fine with a reinvention of the modular system with more digital I/O and connections to other features of the car. Let me buy something like a “Samsung Galaxy Drive” infotainment dash that embodies the “swooping dash” concept, or let me buy a pre-built shell that I can build out like a custom PC.
I can cram my car full of corporate apps, or I can run it on Linux. I would love to have the choice.
Any future self-driving capabilities need to be inside of their own dedicated system like an aircraft autopilot.
I mean, the DIN hole was a standard size but it certainly wasn’t a ‘socket’ and anyone who had a Ford Focus that needed a Mercedes-Benz writing harness to plug up their aftermarket radio knows what I’m on about.
That was also the point of Apple CarPlay/Android auto. Let the manufacturer provide the hardware but your phone can run the infotainment. Let actual software companies do that, instead of the horrible mess that car manufacturers make out of software
The problem with that though, at least for Android Auto, is that Google (and I also presume Apple) controls the apps that can be shown on the center console. They effectively cut out all competitors by controlling the access. I would like an Open API for this please!
…linux cars? Pretty please?
I dream of an open source car. Something simple but reliable, say a legally-distinct 2004 Honda Accord, bog standard, no frills, no detail package options, just A Cheap Car with standardized parts and open source software. It’s the only car the company makes, you can buy one for 10k or build your own for 6k out of parts and a couple months worth of weekends, car nerds will fork the software for infinite tuning customization, and it doesn’t report your location back to headquarters. Parts are standardized across every car we’ve ever made so your local parts store will have them in stock. The new model year is the same car as last year, we just built some fresh ones for people to buy new.
I have no way of making this dream a reality. But I dream of it nonetheless. American car culture has gone off the rails, and the number of people I see already driving around old 5-owner Hondas and Toyotas and Buicks tells me that there is definitely a market for a cheap basic car that runs.
I assume car manufacturers would try to stop this by saying people would just load up video games or netflix on their dashboards while they drive. Even though you could probably do that now already, if you really wanted to.
Hell, I could just bolt a laptop to the dash if I really wanted that
Why jump to laptop when tablets are right there? Just chuck one of these chungus fuckers onto some velcro mounts…https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/tablets/galaxy-view/samsung-galaxy-view-18-4-32gb-wi-fi-black-sm-t670nzkaxar/
Yeah, but who wants their car to look like a Tesla? ;)
What do you mean? You still have your dash cluster!
Car dependency is a dead end. It’s inherently wasteful, privileged, inefficient, unsustainable, unhealthy, etc. I would much rather have free, extensive, public transit and safe infrastructure for pedestrians, bikes, and light EVs.
Tell us you don’t live in the US without telling us you don 't live in the US.
Or anywhere relatively rural. I just got home from a long weekend in rural Minnesota/Wisconsin, and there’s literally no viable way to run public transit out there in a manner that wouldn’t either be so restrictive as to be useless, or would lose so much money it would be first on the block for service cuts (and therefore become useless). I’m talking “town of 600 residents, most people live on unincorporated county land on a farmstead, and the only grocery store in a 50 mile radius is a Dollar General” rural. Asking these folks to give up cars is an insane prospect.
They no roll?
Locked bootloaders should be illegal. Manufacturers should have to provide enough specs that third parties can write code that runs on the hardware.
I’m disappointed to find this article is mainly about losing premium subscription features that use mobile internet, which I see as little more than expensive spyware. I don’t want them in the first place, and although I believe that some people might, it doesn’t seem like one of the important issues around car technology or transportation in general.
The promise is a “smartphone on wheels”: a car that automakers can continue to improve well after an owner drives away from a showroom.
I feel a more worthwhile discussion would be about how a long a “smartphone on wheels” will remain useful compared to one that doesn’t depend on continually updated software. How much more often will they need to be replaced? How much more will that cost people? How much more waste and pollution will be generated because of shorter car lifetimes? What sort of right-to-repair laws do we need here?
Seems like a missed opportunity.
You don’t need a computer in a car, especially an electric one. Sure, you want some electronics, but do you think 1970s milk floats had computers in them. Today’s EVs are basically the same thing with better motors and batteries.
Software control should be kept for luxury aspects of the vehicle. Nothing critical.
And this is why I drive a 1980 Volkswagen rabbit pickup. better gas mileage then modern cars (50mpg+ on the highway) I can replace about any part in it for under a few hundred in most cases even a new engine can be done under 1000. And everything is dead simple to work on no fancy computers or anything.
How about those crumple zones? Feel safe in your passenger cage? Hope you’re shorter than the dashboard in case of a rollover. Don’t have to worry about getting hit by those airbags, do you? Imagine that steering column spearing through your chest
New cars aren’t just about the latest infotainment, gadgets, and design. There have been huge improvements in pollution control and safety. There has also been huge improvements in efficiency, even if they’re masked by the increased weight of safety improvements, increased performance, and generally much larger size. So far a lot of that increased complexity is well worth it - I’ll never have another car without anti-lock brakes
Polluting as hell though, or so I imagine?
Even in Sweden catalysators were not mandatory before like 1986 IIRC.
The rest is awesome though 👍😎
And what are the pollution costs of even manufacturing a new vehicle, VS one that’s already in place?
We can’t manufacture our way to using fewer resources.
We can’t manufacture our way to using fewer resources.
Why not? Seems like a pretty simple formula: if it costs X amount of resources or pollution to save Y amount of resources or pollution per unit time, the break-even point is whenever Y times time exceeds X.
You can, though. There are many lifecycle analyses using actual data to calculate the tradeoff point.
It’s not just cars. Anything with electronics (appliances, smarthome devices, healthcare, transportation) that is designed to last more than three years will hit a wall.
The host devices are designed to last 10-15 years, but the electronics will be out-of-date in 3-5 years.
The processor manufacturer will have moved on to new tech and will stop making spare parts. The firmware will only get updated if something really bad happens. Most likely, it’ll get abandoned. And some time soon, the software toolchain and libraries will not be available anymore. Let’s not think of the devs who will have moved on. Anyone want to make a career fixing up 10-yo software stack? Where’s the profit in that for the manufacturer?
So as an end-user, you’re stuck with devices that can not be updated and there’s still at least 10-20 years of life left on them. Best of luck.
Solution: go analog. Pay extra if you have to. They’ll last longer and the ROI and privacy can’t be beat.
The problem isn’t analogue Vs digital, or even software controlled or not. It’s about the design assuming:
- The manufacturer will always exist
- The manufacturer should be the only one to maintain the device.
- The manufacture will define what the owner will do with the device.
An analogue device can be at fault too. Proprietary parts. Construction techniques which don’t allow for dissambly without destroying things. All that stuff.
…but you’re right. Buy the items that let you service them, that don’t rely on cloud servers and software updates, that use standard parts, etc, etc. Right to repair legislation is good too, but the companies understand purchasing power more. So educate those around you too.
A lot of what’s driving these decisions is the mass switch to subscription models. Everything’s designed so you have to keep coming back to the manufacturer.
It used to be making a high quality, standalone product meant you could spend less on customer service and RMA’s. Now they’ve figured out they can sell you service contracts and make money off you being locked in.
