Haha maybe I’m getting old, but people ITT don’t seem to understand that “taking nudes” and deciding who, if anyone, gets to see them should be a basic right of privacy and freedom.
You should be insulted by, and scrutinize the idea of being told what you can and can’t do with your body and your data, including nudes and beyond.
“Oooo uh, shouldn’t have taken nudes!” is incel rhetoric.
This has been my take forever. Maybe women want to take nudes and send them to a sweetheart or maybe she’s just feeling hot and proud of herself. Good for her. Doesn’t mean they should be available for the world to see, nor should she be victim-blamed.
Same for the sub-hominids who say a woman was asking for it after being raped because she dressed provocatively. Yeah, she might have been dressing in a way to attract someone, that’s the goddamn point. It’s her prerogative, and guess what: she has the final say as to who can interact with her. Fuck outta here with this “she was asking to get raped” bullshit. Grow up and learn some goddamn self control, it’s insulting to insinuate that we, as men, are a monolith and do not have any.
Straight up. Not to derail this and make it about men but I would be remiss not to add that the idea that men are incapable of controlling ourselves around women is sexist against men too.
It’s such a weird argument to throw men under the bus to justify victim-blaming women.
Absolutely; like I said, I find it deeply insulting and it absolutely is sexist. In the vein of “we cain’t have a wummun president because she’d start a war soon’s she gets her period”, we could say that “national security is threatened because the men can’t stop awooga-ing at that hot dame’s cans”. It’s patently ridiculous and we all should be offended by these idiots, christ.
My cousin told one of his employees that she shouldn’t talk or make friends with men other than her SO, and that she should have known what was going to happen. This was immediately following said employee being kissed and groped by a man that she had only ever been nice to.
My cousin is a man who believes that immigrants and women are at fault for the decline of western society. I’m sure he feels that way about LGBTQ+ folks too. Of course they adhere to the mindless horny ape narrative. These people look for any excuse to exercise and hone their bigotry.
I look at it more on the level of discussing crimes via text or email or what have you. (I’m not saying sexting is or should be a crime. It’s an analogy).
If you don’t want it to get out, don’t document it. If you don’t care if it gets out, do whatever you want.
That’s not to say that it wouldn’t also be nice to have control over your own image nor that people shouldn’t go to jail for revenge porn, etc., but once it’s out there, it’s out there. You can’t put it back into Pandora’s box. That’s just how reality works.
Yeah, I get that part, it’s entirely too easy for shit to go wrong. But victim-blaming is tepid, wet garbage, and always points in the wrong direction. We need to get better, as a collective, at locking our data the fuck down, and slapping the shit out of the people who act maliciously with it.
Sometimes we take the wrong choices because we aren’t perfectly logical machines. Sure thing everyone (yeah me as well y’know) could use some extra precaution, but you can’t blame people for that. Aim at the criminals, not the victims. That equals saying that you can’t make mistakes, in a way it’s true but it’s often a justification for victim blaming.
See that’s the unique problem here. As long as there’s a method of sharing photos there’s going to be a way to compromise that system. And corporations aren’t built around data privacy. They’re built around selling data. So not only do they have an access route for your friends, they’ve left an access route for themselves too. All a bad guy has to do is spoof that connection and they can pull everything. That’s not something you can get rid of until you get rid of capitalism.
I’m really not following your reasoning in this thread. Are you arguing that we would have a way to securely transfer nude images to another individual and prevent them from distributing that image if such a technology created value for shareholders? And we can’t do that because it doesn’t?
We can’t even protect it on your device. The capitalism thing is the why of it all. There’s more value to just marketing something as secure than to actually writing and testing stuff thoroughly. As a result corporations just don’t do security very well at any level unless it’s required by the government and the penalty is complete loss of revenue. But you only see that in military contracting and Banks.
And the smokers should have the right for a cigarette without fear of a lung cancer, yet here we are… Life is unfair, and every step you take to protect yourself counts.
If lung cancer had sentience and self control, I’d be all for hunting it down, arresting it and publically shaming it before blaming smokers, but AI-driven smoke particles are still a few years out.
I might get driven out of town for this but people claiming such things aren’t less than you. They are either massively ignorant and being lead on by psychopaths or they are deeply disturbed and need medical attention. They are not less than you, nobody and no living creature is, in fact.
Seeing others as less than ourselves or our group is the root cause for our predicament (wars, poverty, cruelty, social injustice, etc.). I’m not saying the situation is okay. I’m saying hate isnt the answer and it changes exactly nothing, which is exactly what we’re supposed to do. Instead we could start calling out our drinking buddies when they grab “dat hot ass” instead of cheering them on. Objectifying anyone (without their express approval) isnt an option.
No, I think I see what you’re saying and I agree, we all need to do better. Even when we hold views opposing that dumb sexist crap, it’s not enough merely to have those views, we should act on them and teach others to do so. I fully agree with the notion that young men today have terrible role models right now and we need to do better.
What I don’t get is that this attitude means we all get less nudes. If a woman doesn’t know that a man’s gonna treat her intimacy with respect, she’s going to hesitate before she does it. If we appreciated them enough not to leak them and not show them to others, women would have one less barrier and we’d all get more nudes.
This is the correct take, for everyone up voting the bullshit victim blaming throughout the thread. Glad I’m going in for a therapy appointment right now cuz holy shit
Haha maybe I’m getting old, but people ITT don’t seem to understand that “taking nudes” and deciding who, if anyone, gets to see them should be a basic right of privacy and freedom.
You should be insulted by, and scrutinize the idea of being told what you can and can’t do with your body and your data, including nudes and beyond.
“Oooo uh, shouldn’t have taken nudes!” is incel rhetoric.
Besides, with what deepfakes can do, the whole argument is flawed from the beginning, as we know that the image of a victim can be used without her knowledge, or even without nudes in the first place. It’s a violation of trust, with permanent effects on the victims…that cannot be undone even with the best efforts.
As a late zoomer, I agree with you 100%. Whilst it’s reasonable to advise that people take precautions and know the risks, there’s way too many people that are on the side of “Oooo uh, shouldn’t have taken nudes!”.
There are way too many crimes that are so common nowadays that the victim just gets flippantly blamed for not looking out for themselves better.
Trying to give a more relatable example for the incels, how would you feel if you’d got a nice hefty bikelock, locked your bike up against a bike stand, and you come back an hour later to find that someone’s picked and stolen it? You knew the risks of leaving a bike unattended, you took what you thought were good enough precautions and it still got stolen. Is it your fault? Should you have just walked? Why did you even leave the house?
The problem isn’t the existence of nude photos. The problem is the existence of shitty people who spread those photos without your consent. And unlike a physical object, once those photos are out there, they cannot be put back. And it doesn’t even have to be someone you know. One bad public Wi-Fi connection and all your photos just got uploaded to a stranger’s server.
If the risk reward on that is okay with you then go have fun. We’ll commiserate with you when they get stolen. But we’re not going to pretend you didn’t create that possibility. Just like a free climber or a sky diver.
If you sabotaged someone’s parachute on purpose, you’d definitely be charged with a crime. Possibly murder.
Would that mean the jumper should’ve accounted for the possibility of someone wanting to murder them? Because if so, that argument could be applied to literally everything.
Just on the practical side of things though: the second you send out nudes, you lose control. I can save them, copy them, store them for 10 years and then post them on 4chan and there isn’t a thing you can do about that to stop me or even punish me. It’s easy to hide the source (me, in this example).
Yeah, you should have the right to do what you want, you should be able to be a pretty girl and walk naked in front of a bunch of fanatical Muslim terrorists if you want without having to feel afraid but, you know, not a great idea.
So you get to the point where you should be pragmatic and limit your wants and needs depending on the situation. Either that, or accept that trouble will find you
Haha maybe I’m getting old, but people ITT don’t seem to understand that “taking nudes” and deciding who, if anyone, gets to see them should be a basic right of privacy and freedom.
You should be insulted by, and scrutinize the idea of being told what you can and can’t do with your body and your data, including nudes and beyond.
“Oooo uh, shouldn’t have taken nudes!” is incel rhetoric.
This has been my take forever. Maybe women want to take nudes and send them to a sweetheart or maybe she’s just feeling hot and proud of herself. Good for her. Doesn’t mean they should be available for the world to see, nor should she be victim-blamed.
Same for the sub-hominids who say a woman was asking for it after being raped because she dressed provocatively. Yeah, she might have been dressing in a way to attract someone, that’s the goddamn point. It’s her prerogative, and guess what: she has the final say as to who can interact with her. Fuck outta here with this “she was asking to get raped” bullshit. Grow up and learn some goddamn self control, it’s insulting to insinuate that we, as men, are a monolith and do not have any.
Straight up. Not to derail this and make it about men but I would be remiss not to add that the idea that men are incapable of controlling ourselves around women is sexist against men too.
It’s such a weird argument to throw men under the bus to justify victim-blaming women.
Absolutely; like I said, I find it deeply insulting and it absolutely is sexist. In the vein of “we cain’t have a wummun president because she’d start a war soon’s she gets her period”, we could say that “national security is threatened because the men can’t stop awooga-ing at that hot dame’s cans”. It’s patently ridiculous and we all should be offended by these idiots, christ.
My cousin told one of his employees that she shouldn’t talk or make friends with men other than her SO, and that she should have known what was going to happen. This was immediately following said employee being kissed and groped by a man that she had only ever been nice to.
My cousin is a man who believes that immigrants and women are at fault for the decline of western society. I’m sure he feels that way about LGBTQ+ folks too. Of course they adhere to the mindless horny ape narrative. These people look for any excuse to exercise and hone their bigotry.
How does he feel about burqas?
Idk, he’s got a thin blue line sticker on his too-large-to-be-anything-but-compensating-for-something truck if that helps narrow it down?
I look at it more on the level of discussing crimes via text or email or what have you. (I’m not saying sexting is or should be a crime. It’s an analogy).
If you don’t want it to get out, don’t document it. If you don’t care if it gets out, do whatever you want.
That’s not to say that it wouldn’t also be nice to have control over your own image nor that people shouldn’t go to jail for revenge porn, etc., but once it’s out there, it’s out there. You can’t put it back into Pandora’s box. That’s just how reality works.
Yeah, I get that part, it’s entirely too easy for shit to go wrong. But victim-blaming is tepid, wet garbage, and always points in the wrong direction. We need to get better, as a collective, at locking our data the fuck down, and slapping the shit out of the people who act maliciously with it.
Sometimes we take the wrong choices because we aren’t perfectly logical machines. Sure thing everyone (yeah me as well y’know) could use some extra precaution, but you can’t blame people for that. Aim at the criminals, not the victims. That equals saying that you can’t make mistakes, in a way it’s true but it’s often a justification for victim blaming.
See that’s the unique problem here. As long as there’s a method of sharing photos there’s going to be a way to compromise that system. And corporations aren’t built around data privacy. They’re built around selling data. So not only do they have an access route for your friends, they’ve left an access route for themselves too. All a bad guy has to do is spoof that connection and they can pull everything. That’s not something you can get rid of until you get rid of capitalism.
Yes, exactly, capitalism is always the enemy, let’s point the blame where it actually belongs
[not /s, beeteedubs]
I’m glad you cleared that up, it did read a bit like sarcasm. But yes, we can’t have true data security or privacy for one very important reason.
It doesn’t create value for the shareholders
I’m really not following your reasoning in this thread. Are you arguing that we would have a way to securely transfer nude images to another individual and prevent them from distributing that image if such a technology created value for shareholders? And we can’t do that because it doesn’t?
We can’t even protect it on your device. The capitalism thing is the why of it all. There’s more value to just marketing something as secure than to actually writing and testing stuff thoroughly. As a result corporations just don’t do security very well at any level unless it’s required by the government and the penalty is complete loss of revenue. But you only see that in military contracting and Banks.
And the smokers should have the right for a cigarette without fear of a lung cancer, yet here we are… Life is unfair, and every step you take to protect yourself counts.
If lung cancer had sentience and self control, I’d be all for hunting it down, arresting it and publically shaming it before blaming smokers, but AI-driven smoke particles are still a few years out.
I might get driven out of town for this but people claiming such things aren’t less than you. They are either massively ignorant and being lead on by psychopaths or they are deeply disturbed and need medical attention. They are not less than you, nobody and no living creature is, in fact.
Seeing others as less than ourselves or our group is the root cause for our predicament (wars, poverty, cruelty, social injustice, etc.). I’m not saying the situation is okay. I’m saying hate isnt the answer and it changes exactly nothing, which is exactly what we’re supposed to do. Instead we could start calling out our drinking buddies when they grab “dat hot ass” instead of cheering them on. Objectifying anyone (without their express approval) isnt an option.
No, I think I see what you’re saying and I agree, we all need to do better. Even when we hold views opposing that dumb sexist crap, it’s not enough merely to have those views, we should act on them and teach others to do so. I fully agree with the notion that young men today have terrible role models right now and we need to do better.
Yes, that is exactly what I mean. I appreciate the honest and friendly response. Thank you.
What I don’t get is that this attitude means we all get less nudes. If a woman doesn’t know that a man’s gonna treat her intimacy with respect, she’s going to hesitate before she does it. If we appreciated them enough not to leak them and not show them to others, women would have one less barrier and we’d all get more nudes.
This is the correct take, for everyone up voting the bullshit victim blaming throughout the thread. Glad I’m going in for a therapy appointment right now cuz holy shit
Besides, with what deepfakes can do, the whole argument is flawed from the beginning, as we know that the image of a victim can be used without her knowledge, or even without nudes in the first place. It’s a violation of trust, with permanent effects on the victims…that cannot be undone even with the best efforts.
As a late zoomer, I agree with you 100%. Whilst it’s reasonable to advise that people take precautions and know the risks, there’s way too many people that are on the side of “Oooo uh, shouldn’t have taken nudes!”. There are way too many crimes that are so common nowadays that the victim just gets flippantly blamed for not looking out for themselves better.
Trying to give a more relatable example for the incels, how would you feel if you’d got a nice hefty bikelock, locked your bike up against a bike stand, and you come back an hour later to find that someone’s picked and stolen it? You knew the risks of leaving a bike unattended, you took what you thought were good enough precautions and it still got stolen. Is it your fault? Should you have just walked? Why did you even leave the house?
If I print out your righteous comment will it protect me from nude leaks?
Yeah my nudes are completely accessible to people with a fetlife account and I’m fine with that.
The problem isn’t the existence of nude photos. The problem is the existence of shitty people who spread those photos without your consent. And unlike a physical object, once those photos are out there, they cannot be put back. And it doesn’t even have to be someone you know. One bad public Wi-Fi connection and all your photos just got uploaded to a stranger’s server.
If the risk reward on that is okay with you then go have fun. We’ll commiserate with you when they get stolen. But we’re not going to pretend you didn’t create that possibility. Just like a free climber or a sky diver.
If you sabotaged someone’s parachute on purpose, you’d definitely be charged with a crime. Possibly murder.
Would that mean the jumper should’ve accounted for the possibility of someone wanting to murder them? Because if so, that argument could be applied to literally everything.
“If you didn’t want your car stolen, why did you buy a car?”
Just on the practical side of things though: the second you send out nudes, you lose control. I can save them, copy them, store them for 10 years and then post them on 4chan and there isn’t a thing you can do about that to stop me or even punish me. It’s easy to hide the source (me, in this example).
Yeah, you should have the right to do what you want, you should be able to be a pretty girl and walk naked in front of a bunch of fanatical Muslim terrorists if you want without having to feel afraid but, you know, not a great idea.
So you get to the point where you should be pragmatic and limit your wants and needs depending on the situation. Either that, or accept that trouble will find you