So I just discovered that I have been working next to the waste of oxygen that raped my best friend several years ago. I work in a manufacturing environment and I know that you can’t fire someone just for being a sex offender unless it directly interferes with work duties (in the US). But despite it being a primarily male workforce he does work with several women who have no idea what he is. He literally followed a woman home, broke into her house, and raped her. Him working here puts every female employee at risk. How is that not an unsafe working environment? How is it at even legal to employ him anywhere where he will have contact with women?
No they don’t, that’s what prisons are for.
That kinda mentality is why america has the most people in prison per capita. Its the only way to rationalize the way the prisoners are essentially being enslaved. So by being commercially productive, people with money (read: with power) will always work to increase the number of prisoners.
I am fine with rehabilitating drug dealers or other non violent crimes and even some violent ones. Rapists should never see the light of day again. There’s no excuse for rape. There’s no “Oh, I didn’t know raping someone was a bad thing” to rehabilitate someone out of. To rape someone you have to be a selfish, shitty person, end of story. We don’t need people like that in society. The resources spent trying to fix them would be better focused on people who need help and have never raped anyone.
Just out of curiosity, what other violent crimes do get a pass for “not knowing it was wrong?”
Like do you believe that people can assault other people with weapons without knowing it was wrong? Can they beat their wives and not know it was wrong?
You seem to have a weird hangup on rape in particular in comparison to other violent crimes when it comes to “knowing it was wrong.”
I’m pretty sure the MS13 guys that butcher people know it’s wrong they just don’t give a shit. I’m sure people who use physical violence to get what they want know it’s wrong but they just don’t care.
Stupid standard, people can rationalize any crime rape ain’t special.
I said some violent crimes.
If someone assaults somebody in retaliation for something they did to them or a family member where it’s unlikely they would harm anyone else many would argue that can be justified.
No we’re all taught from preschool on not to hit.
And they should be locked up forever with the rapists.
Then when someone assaults the assaulter in retaliation for the retaliation? Fuck the rule of law - return to lynch mobs, amirite? Do you say people argue this because you’re one of them and are too much of a coward to say so, or is this an irrelevancy you don’t believe? People argue all sorts of dumb bullshit - it doesn’t make them right.
No exceptions, no discussion entered into - guess we’re locking up the military and police. Of course there are exceptions, and of course people are going to do the mental gymnastics necessary to justify their actions to themselves. That doesn’t make them right, but it does make your standard a transparently terrible one.
They do, and that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be punished, what it does mean is you can look at their reasons when determining whether or not they are likely to re-offend. The person who only kills people who rape their kid is not likely to do it again vs. the person who’s threshold for rape is that they don’t respect other people’s body autonomy when they’re horny.
In the context of this conversation, “people” can speak for themselves.
Again - are you a coward that attributes their support for lynch mobs to “people” rather than owning them, or are you dishonest, presenting other people’s arguments you don’t believe?
Failure to answer that aside, it seems you’re arguing all violence is wrong because we’re taught not to hit in preschool, but retaliatory violence is good because the courts don’t take circumstances into account and sentence accordingly. I don’t need to refute your points - you’ve done that yourself - albeit poorly.
I don’t support vigilante justice. That’s why it’s so important for the justice system to do it’s job properly. If it was vigilante justice wouldn’t happen. My point was that people have different motivations for committing crime. A drug dealer may be doing it to escape poverty. A murderer may be trying to get justice for an abused relative. These people can be rehabilitated. You can help the drug dealer learn skills that will allow them to make a living. You can give the vigilante counseling to get over the trauma they’re dealing with and make sure the people who victimize others are kept off the streets, in doing so they are unlikely to reoffend. The same cannot be said for a rapist. There’s something fundamentally broken inside of them that makes them able to ignore basic morality and other people’s body autonomy. There’s no “justification” a rapist can come up with that isn’t disgusting and evil. They cannot be rehabilitated.
You do know one of the points of prison, besides retribution is rehabilitation, just prisoning someone does not constitute a healthy society.
I see you have no idea what you’re talking about
K
Prisons are supposed to be for rehabilitation. What you are talking about is penal colonies. If we had a working justice system, those who can’t be rehabilitated could get the death penalty. But right now it is cheaper to keep them in prison for life than fix the system. Since this guy is out, he served his sentence and is deemed rehabilitated.
Idgaf what the “justice” system says. I’m giving my opinion of how it should be. I know of child molesters in my home town who were out in 6 years and continued to be pieces of shit. The kids they raped sure as fuck weren’t over the damage they did in that time. A guy raped a member of my family and didn’t get any time at all. Rehabilitation does not work on rapists. The fact that there is a maximum sentence just goes to show that they don’t get out when they’re rehabilitated. They get out when their time is up.
The current system doesn’t even attempt to rehabilitate people. That’s the big problem. The current system just doesn’t work.
Correct. So it’s better to throw away the key than let monsters back on the streets.
“The system doesn’t work. Instead of fixing it, let’s just ruin people’s lives forever. Nevermind the fact that people can change.”
I didn’t say don’t fix it. I said don’t let them back out when nothing was done to rehabilitate them.
“Nothing was done to rehabilitate them, so rehabilitation doesn’t work.”
There’s literally no logic here…
If nothing was done to rehabilitate them, then they are not rehabilitated. How does that not track?
And the shocking percentage of innocent people who are forced into bad plea deals or railroaded by the system? Do we throw away the key for them too?
Those people are why I didn’t say we should execute them. They can still prove their innocence and get out.
The system doesn’t work, we should just throw away the key, and somehow the innocent will prove they are so from behind the gates we locked forever?
That’s not logical.
Neither is letting out convicted rapists and murderers on the off chance some of them are innocent. The fix to that problem is not to release people early, it’s to reform the investigation and trial process so that wrongful convictions don’t happen in the first place.
One the system gets ahold of you, it’s almost impossible to escape it regardless of your innocence.
There’s a maximum sentence for drug dealers too. Is it impossible to realize the harm that brought to the community?
No? That’s why they’re in prison. I don’t think maximum sentences work. You should be in prison until you’re fixed and ready to not be a criminal when to you get out. I’d hardly compare a drug dealer to a rapist though. A drug dealer can be driven into it by a poor financial situation and the people using drugs are doing so by choice. Rapists don’t have any external factors that drive them to it.
I’m sorry but your logic clearly doesn’t track here. If maximum sentences are proof that there is no rehabilitation then why wouldn’t that be true of drug dealers too?
I never said it was. You’re the one who brought up drug dealers anyway. I said maximum sentences aren’t a good way to do sentencing. The sentence should be “until you are rehabilitated”, regardless of your crime.
Okay that’s a bit more clear. The drug dealers thing was a comparison. Now we need to deal with the idea of the indefinite sentence. There’s a real danger that a regulatory agency could just keep increasing that bar until it’s a defacto life sentence. That’s why we have maximums.
I’d love to live in a country I trusted with that kind of power but I don’t. We constantly advise our justice system and the people trapped in it. So I have no confidence an indefinite sentence would result in a release or good faith treatment while incarcerated to work towards a release.
The current justice system already has issues with corruption. It’s just one more problem that needs to be solved in the overall revamp the system needs with how things are done. Just arbitrarily releasing people after a set amount of time is not how you fix that issue.
Disgusting sentiment.