In short, the source of my frustration is that the only organizing center in my community that I have found that successfully does this and doesn’t constantly have problems with people showing up:

At the smallest level where you start, yes it is just make a revolutionary organization. A small revolutionary organization can begin as a reading group of 4 people. 4 people isn’t enough but you’re also not alone and 4 becomes 8, 16, 32 etc if you steer it correctly.

…has been people I have met through socdem campaigns who are clear-eyed about the end efficacy of electoral entryism. Not everyone who works on those campaigns is like that; I find far more of the rubes you describe, but in my other organizations I just can’t find a consistent willingness like I do in that particular organizing space. That is why I think they are useful, because in my community it has brought me to like-minded people who are willing to do the work, have a radicalized viewpoint, and worked with me to get to where I am today when I was much more of a naive lib myself.

Maybe that is not everyone’s experience, but it is mine, and I have benefited from it. It annoys me when I come to the bear site and see that organizing work totally shredded, because I know how it radicalized me and the people around me. But ultimately this place is words on the internet and I shouldn’t let it frustrate me like it has here.

Thanks for chatting on the subject and I do appreciate your perspective