It does matter how effective the drones are if the drones are the most effective thing the Ukrainians have. And your still trying to have a completely different discussion about whether its enough to win the war.
If we agree that drones aren’t changing the direction of the war, then they’re by definition not effective at accomplishing anything other than dragging things out.
I really think you need to go and reread ZWQbpkzi’s comments Yog, they’re literally not commenting on the direction of the war or whether the drones can win. You’re being needlessly aggressive in arguing completely unrelated points to what they’ve actually said.
Not effective, most effective, as in not as ineffective as other weapons they have access to. They’re speaking in relative terms solely within what the equipment available to the Ukrainian military at the moment, not absolute terms of winning a war.
I feel like we’re talking past each other here. What I’m saying is that it only makes sense to talk about effectiveness in the context of achieving overarching goals. Your frame measures effectiveness within Ukraine’s constraints saying that drones are better than sticks. My frame measures it against actual war goals like halting Russian advances. It’s like saying that if I jump out of a plane and my parachute doesn’t open, then it’s more effective for me to flap my arms than not.
OK, sure, whatever, let’s use your framework - FPV drones are more effective at halting russian advances than their infantry, tanks, and artillery. The point that I told you 3 comments ago that you are talking past is that Ukranian soldiers are going to say they don’t have enough regardless of actual stock, because they’re the best weapon they have available to field against the russians.
Wait, wait, wait, you genuinely think this is going to work in their interest in the end? 🤦
Let’s just review how that’s worked out so far. Before the war started, Ukraine could’ve implemented Minsk agreements and kept all of its territory. Two weeks into the war, it could’ve simply agreed not to join NATO, and kept most of its territory. Then in 2024, it could’ve just lost Donbas and Luhansk, now Ukraine going to lose everything east of Dnepr. Every single day the war continues Ukrainian position deteriorates, and they will lose more people and territory as a result. If this goes long enough there’s not going to be an Ukraine left.
Buddy, I understand you’d really prefer if that was my position but I’ve told you repeatedly its not. It is either an insulting lack of reading comprehension or willful ignorance that you keep insisting that’s my position. Let me spell my position out for you:
FPV drones are an effective form of munitions.
Ukraine relies heavily on FPV drones for its defense.
Without them Russia would’ve been in Keiv many months ago.
FPV drones are made cheaply by volunteers in Ukraine.
Ukraine’s claims of having an FPV drone shortage could just be propaganda to motivate their own populace to produce more.
This is all I have ever tried to claim. But you somehow keep wishing I was some pro-Ukraine lib because in that fantasy you can win some internet points.
It does matter how effective the drones are if the drones are the most effective thing the Ukrainians have. And your still trying to have a completely different discussion about whether its enough to win the war.
If we agree that drones aren’t changing the direction of the war, then they’re by definition not effective at accomplishing anything other than dragging things out.
I really think you need to go and reread ZWQbpkzi’s comments Yog, they’re literally not commenting on the direction of the war or whether the drones can win. You’re being needlessly aggressive in arguing completely unrelated points to what they’ve actually said.
But what does effective even mean in that context?
Not effective, most effective, as in not as ineffective as other weapons they have access to. They’re speaking in relative terms solely within what the equipment available to the Ukrainian military at the moment, not absolute terms of winning a war.
I ask again, most effective at doing what?
…attacking russian positions? What else would the Ukrainian Army be using weapons for?
I feel like we’re talking past each other here. What I’m saying is that it only makes sense to talk about effectiveness in the context of achieving overarching goals. Your frame measures effectiveness within Ukraine’s constraints saying that drones are better than sticks. My frame measures it against actual war goals like halting Russian advances. It’s like saying that if I jump out of a plane and my parachute doesn’t open, then it’s more effective for me to flap my arms than not.
OK, sure, whatever, let’s use your framework - FPV drones are more effective at halting russian advances than their infantry, tanks, and artillery. The point that I told you 3 comments ago that you are talking past is that Ukranian soldiers are going to say they don’t have enough regardless of actual stock, because they’re the best weapon they have available to field against the russians.
Flapping my arms when I fall out of a plane is more effective than not flapping my arms. 🤷
Yes, that’s literally the same statement.
If it can drag out the war then it’s actually effective even if its only to buy them time to negotiate.
Wait, wait, wait, you genuinely think this is going to work in their interest in the end? 🤦
Let’s just review how that’s worked out so far. Before the war started, Ukraine could’ve implemented Minsk agreements and kept all of its territory. Two weeks into the war, it could’ve simply agreed not to join NATO, and kept most of its territory. Then in 2024, it could’ve just lost Donbas and Luhansk, now Ukraine going to lose everything east of Dnepr. Every single day the war continues Ukrainian position deteriorates, and they will lose more people and territory as a result. If this goes long enough there’s not going to be an Ukraine left.
Buddy, I understand you’d really prefer if that was my position but I’ve told you repeatedly its not. It is either an insulting lack of reading comprehension or willful ignorance that you keep insisting that’s my position. Let me spell my position out for you:
This is all I have ever tried to claim. But you somehow keep wishing I was some pro-Ukraine lib because in that fantasy you can win some internet points.